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Where is the X1D ????

D&A

Well-known member
My guess would be an exclusivity issue versus a readout issue.

I think the readout would affect the maximum frame rate and I believe that I read the Fuji will run around 60fps (while something closer to 90fps is ideal for most applications.) The Fuji is supposed to be using the 3.69 million dot EVF that sounds a lot like the one that's in the Leica Q. Consequently the Panasonic GH5 looks like it'll use that EVF as well. I wonder if Leica had a 12-18 months of exclusive rights to these EVF's. We may know the answer if the Generation 3 Sony A7/A9 series uses these 3.69 or 4.4 million dot EVF's in them.
Keep in mind that it still could have been a readout speed issue since the Leica SL uses a smaller sized sensor which probabaly has a greater readout speed than the 50mp Sony MF one used in the X1D. In the case of the Fuji GFX, it may be that they were later along in the development path than the Hassy X1D and may be using a modified Sony sensor where readout speed was increased and they were able to take advantage of it.

Alternatively they may have been working with and willing to pay additional costs to Sony to modify their 50mp sensor for this very reason. I recall Fuji saying the sensor they would be using was custom or something to that effect.

Dave (D&A)
 

D&A

Well-known member
Wow! Does the Osbourne 1 bring back memories :) The first 'portable computer' only weighing 10kg's. This was one of my first computers in the early '80's. One floppy for CP/M and I guess 160 more disks for 1 file.
Yes but then again I don't think Osbourne was planning for people to download X1D sized files to it either...LOL...or he definitely would have also gone into the computer storage business (read: floppys) :).

Dave (D&A)
 

etto72

Member
This system is in its' infancy. We don't know the eventual lens line-up including a Macro optic, or whether extension tubes will be offered. If the initial kit is successful in market you can be sure Hasselblad will take advantage of the opportunity to design and sell more native lenses.

It was years before Leica offered the S-100/2 ... so for a lot of portrait work and shallow DOF images, I used the Hasselblad HC-100/2.2 with the Leica H to S adapter until I secured the S-100/2. The HC Extension tubes also worked with the HC- 100/2.2. If I were getting this kit with portraits in mind, I'd seriously consider the HC-100/2.2 which is not a large, bulky lens considering the f/2.2 max aperture.

However, while not optimal, 90/3.2 seems workable for most portrait work if you like the eyes and nose in focus :)

- Marc
Yes, I also believe the 90mm at 3.2 will give a beautiful bokeh/separation.
while its not comparable to an 85m Otus at 1.4, it will be still pretty nice:thumbup:
Here are two sample from Ming Thein that show that

X1D3-B0000846bw copy by Ming Thein, su Flickr


X1D3-B0000878bw copy by Ming Thein, su Flickr

Personally, If Hasselblad won't add any other portrait focal before summer, I may buy the adapter and get the 150mm 3.2 (probably 2nd hand)
I had the Pentax 645Z for half a year and I have got some of the most beautiful portrait compression/bokeh rendering with their 150mm and i believe we should get pretty much the same from the HC

Cheers
Ettore
 
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iiiNelson

Well-known member
Keep in mind that it still could have been a readout speed issue since the Leica SL uses a smaller sized sensor which probabaly has a greater readout speed than the 50mp Sony MF one used in the X1D. In the case of the Fuji GFX, it may be that they were later along in the development path than the Hassy X1D and may be using a modified Sony sensor where readout speed was increased and they were able to take advantage of it.

Alternatively they may have been working with and willing to pay additional costs to Sony to modify their 50mp sensor for this very reason. I recall Fuji saying the sensor they would be using was custom or something to that effect.

Dave (D&A)
Perhaps but then technically EVERY sensor is custom to each OEM's specs even when using a baseline chipset. Maybe Fuji is using a faster processor in the pipeline like they do with the XT2/Xpro2 to allow additional features over other cameras.
 

etto72

Member
I'll try and do a wrap up of my weekend with the demo camera from the dealer. I've tried to take my time with the camera to give you all an unbiased view of the X1D. But I want to love this camera, so there may be a little bias in there. :eek: I'll give you a little background on what I expect to use it for and how it fits in with the other gear I have. For the past two years, I have not been shooting a lot of what I will be using this for. I've been working on a finishing a documentary film that I started 10 years ago about a baseball player that had a kidney transplant. It's been a special project and as we wrap up the post-production and look towards a release in April 2017, I will get back to shooting more. You can see the trailer for that here, https://vimeo.com/146931053. For the most part I will primarily be using it for portrait and beauty photography. Especially outside on location and when I travel. I have the Hassy H4X and IQ140, 100 2.2, 35-90, 1.7x, etc. that I have been using for most of that work. I love it, the true focus is amazing and in my opinion a must with only one focus point. But the whole setup is heavy and it's a CCD sensor, which in the studio is great, but it doesn't shoot well at the higher ISO's. My hit rate with the True focus is extremely high, most accurate camera I have used. But again, the whole setup is a beast and after an entire day of shooting, I'm physically exhausted. I also have neck and shoulder issues, as I'm sure a lot of photographers do, so a smaller, lighter option, with the same quality, is huge for me. I have not shot with the XF, but I've heard that the AF is great. But the size and weight of the camera is even larger, so for that reason, it's not for me. They have made great improvements and functionality and for a lot of people those have key features and the XF allows Phase to implement future improvements, which is GREAT. I also can't justify upgrading to an IQ150/250/350 for the price, to me the cost is just too much. Especially when you compare it to the cost of the X1D with the same sensor and wifi. I realize that it's not an apples to apples spec/feature comparison, but again this is from my perspective only. Other people's needs will be different.

I also have a Leica Q, which is more for fun and travel than work. This camera is a dream. Although, I can definitely use this as a behind the scenes camera and I could also see myself having this and the X1D together on a trip with a long lens on the X1D and the wide on the Leica Q. They'd both fit perfectly into my wife's purse!!!:ROTFL:

The other camera I use a ton is the Panasonic GH4. I shoot for some antique companies and while it's basic photography, it's steady money and the GH4 is great for that and the videos it produces are amazing quality. The stills while fine for the antiques aren't amazing for other photography. Hopefully the GH5 will improve on that end.

I did seriously think about getting the SL, but the lenses were too big and as great a camera as I think it is, I'd rather have the X1D with a lens for the same price or less. I also got a Leica S 006 to try out and while it's a great camera as well, I can't justify having two CCD sensor cameras. Onto the X1D!


While a lot of people will consider the phrase "Game Changer" marketing hype, I do think it is accurately used for this camera, when it's defined to the price point, size and weight of the camera. In my opinion, and it's a strong one on this topic, one of the main benefits of mirrorless cameras are the possibility of much reduced size and weight. My wife picked up the camera like it was no big deal and started taking pictures of our dog and then our friend took a few of us on new years. It's not this big, heavy, cumbersome, thing. It's an inviting camera to hold. This really can't be overstated enough. Because when traveling, it will be so much easier to take out all day, on hikes you will no longer be weighted down and exhausted form carrying around a heavy camera, huge lenses, and a heavy duty tripod. It has a trickle down effect of lightening everything you need. You could put this on a $10 mini tripod that they sell at the checkout at Adorama and it would support it, seriously I tried it last night.

The other is the having an EVF, which allows you to zoom into the image, at 100% and make sure focus is 100% accurate when you are shooting handheld. I would love an option to zoom in at 75% as well. And there also needs to be a digital focus scale, with infinity on one side and macro on the other, so you know which way you are going. It's very confusing when it's zoomed in, I assume you would get used to it over time. But it's so close that I went back and forth a bit. I would also like to be able to zoom in and use the AF. That was not an option right now.

(copied from previous post so it's all in one place)
EVF- for me, I'm happy with it. It again, could be like the SL, but it's not. It's large and allows you to do what you need to do and is accurate in terms of exposure/focus accuracy. This is on the one that I have at least. We have to keep in mind that there could be slight variations between cameras, but I've tested another demo camera for 15 minutes and it seemed to be the same. I agree with his take that if you shoot with glasses that you may have a learning curve to figure out the best way to use the evf. I don't wear them and one of the benefits of the EVF/eyecup is that your eye is so deeply seated in it that you feel immersed in the viewfinder. You also fit your eye into it slightly on an angle. This is not something you would normally even notice, but this leads to the downside that if you need to wear glasses you can't get your eye in there far enough to have it on an angle, which leads to his comments about losing 1/8th of the viewfinder. I'm pretty sure he means horizontally and it's so large that it shouldn't affect you a lot. but I can see it being frustrating. I did shoot with sunglasses on, Oakleys, which do have a curve to the lens and I only lost about 3% of the viewfinder that way. So if your glass lenses are curved, it will be easier. It will heavily depend on each persons individual glasses. With all that being said, the eye cup is plastic and it does look like it should be able to be removed. I'm certainly not going to try icon the demo camera. But my guess is that there will be a pretty easy solution to this either directly from Hasselblad or from a third party or custom solution.

I also tried it with gloves on. I didn't have any issues with any of the buttons or front or back wheels. The only thing that I can see being a little tricky is the pop up dial that changes the camera setting Modes, M, S, A, etc. With gloves it tends to want to be pushed back down, instead of turning. It still turned, but it's a little tricky.

TTL seemed to work well with the SB-800 on the hotshoe. Just a note, if you turn the flash on in TTL before you turn the camera on, the flash will show an error message. If the camera is on, it works fine. I also tried it with the Profoto Air controller and Profoto B1 Air. It was a little inconsistent, BUT I probably need to update the firmware. I honestly have never used the flat that way, so some aperture changes it adjusted the strobe setting and sometimes it didn't. My guess is that since it worked with the Nikon flash with TTl this is a firmware issue with the Profoto transmitter, which again, I have never updated the firmware on. It sync'd fine and didn't misfire at all.

Long exposure notes
-If you scroll past 1/15th of a second towards longer exposures, you have the option of T, B, and at the very longest 1 hour 8 minutes.
YOU DON'T GET A BLACK FRAME AFTER A LONG EXPOSURE

Image Quality
Lenses
-The two lenses that I have to test, the 45 & 90 are both great. As I mentioned before I have a set of Hasselblad H lenses and accessories. So I plan on using this with those via the H/X adapter as well. That's why I tried the Leica S 006, because it took all my H lenses with the adapter. I still need to test the Hassy/X adapter when it comes out. I'm hoping the AF works well via the adapter, but I would be fine using my 100 2.2 in MF via the adapter if I had to. I may decide for the 30mm lens over the 45 if it doesn't have much distortion when shooting people full length. Because the 45 is just not wide enough when shooting any kind of cityscape of landscape. Ideally they come out with a zoom sometime in late 2017, but that may be wishful thinking. Or if the adapter works great with AF, I may get a used H 24 or 28 and go with the 45.

Other notes:

Another benefit of the small size is that this to many people may not look like a "professional camera" I've been stopped on Malibu beach before and asked if we had a permit with my other setup. This is so small, that I don't think that would happen or it would be easy to talk your way out of it.

I'm still trying to figure out the best settings for the EVF when shooting IN STUDIO with strobes in terms of white balance. By studio, I'm assuming you are shooting at something like f/11 and 1/400 at ISO 100. And ambient is nothing near that. So if you had the exposure simulation (WYSIWYG) on, the EVF would be pitch black. It does lighten up to AF though. The GH4 has a great feature for this in that it recognizes there is a flash in the hotshoe, or flash transmitter, and gives you the correct preview white balance and exposure so you can see the image correctly in the EVF and then it also marks tthe white balance as flash on the RAW images. So this should be an easy firmware fix if they want to implement this. AND ONE I WOULD HIGHLY RECOMMEND! Note, this is different that in TTL, where you are just filling in with the light, so I'd just leave the exposure simulation on in that case.

One thing that I think Hasselblad should explore on this camera is an electronic shutter. I'm not sure why they have not been able to do that yet. I believe that Phase has it with the same sensor and I believe the GFX will have one. I think it would allow other lenses to be used and probably add more functionality to their own, although I'm not sure if I really need a higher shutter speed than 1/2000th. This would probably help other people out more than me, as I'm happily locked in to the Hassy ecosystem with the H & X lenses, but I always like people getting the most out of technology.

The power up thing isn't an issue to me. The batteries are so light, that once it's on, you can have an extra or two and pretty much leave it on.

Delay/Communication
It's clear to me that Hasselblad did not intend to have this camera delayed this long. The lens comes with a certificate in the box that says to register your lens with your camera by December 31st, 2016 for an extra 1 year warranty. So they clearly expected us to get our cameras and lenses prior to the end of 2016. It's too bad that there wasn't a press release send out saying that they are working to make the camera perfect before it ships. Really that's all it would have taken. I'd rather them wait and have it to that point, than ship it before it's ready. With that said, after realizing that it's much faster shooting only Raw, I think it's very close to being production firmware. If you need to shoot jpg as well as RAW, as it is, it's on the fence of being usable for anything fast paced, that's not landscape or still life, in my opinion. It just takes too long to come back to take the next shot. My guess is that this will be fixed very quickly in the next firmware update. And I really need to confirm this on more than just one camera. It could be just mine, but I'm guessing it's not. I don't think it's a huge deal, most people don't buy a camera like this to shoot jpgs, but I did want to point out the plusses and minuses. It really seems like all the specs they listed on the site are there expect for the compressed RAW and writing to different cards.

I guess my bottom line is that after having it for the weekend, if my dealer called me today and said hey, you camera is here, do you want to buy it? I'd say hell yes, and where's my X/H adapter?! For me it fits nicely in between what I have and adds a more functional (high ISO/EVF) and mobile camera that I can use with new and my existing lenses. It also has video that I didn't really get to test in depth. But my guess is that it will be decent. They do need to add focus peaking though. It's also in a platform that they can continue to upgrade via the firmware. So it will continue to keep getting better. I see that we have one shipping out today from B&H, which is great news! Interested to see if it's the same firmware as the current demos.

Happy Shooting!
Josh

Thanks so much Josh!
Thats all very useful to know

May I ask how is the X1D EVF in comparison to the one of the Leica Q ? (Size,Resolution, color accuracy,ect.)

Thank you!
Ettore
 

algrove

Well-known member
Very pleased to read that shipments to customers appear to be starting in ernest.

With respect to weatherproofing, I shall recall a comment from several hundred messages back in this thread ... That I would be convinced that the ports and other potential openings were weathersealed as long as I could see weathersealing on a more obvious opening. The Hasselblad engineers would be well aware that weatherproofing is only as good as the weakest seal. It would be pointless to seal one opening and leave another unsealed. Hence, if the lens-to-body interface is weathersealed, I would be pretty confident that the same level of sealing (or better) was present on all other openings.

So far the best water sealed camera and new lenses was the 645Z.

With respect to the "revolutionary" nature of the X1D (and GFX) ... I see the sensor-aspect of the X1D as an incremental step along the path for cameras to have larger sensors. I would admit to disliking the term "medium format" for the Sony 44mm x 33mm sensor. I would reserve "medium format" for a considerably larger sensor. I think of the Sony 44mm x 33mm sensor as being "super-full-frame" or similar name, and that it is just another option from 1", to micro 4/3rds, to APS-C, to FF, to Super-FF. The X1D may have other revolutionary aspects, but i think that the sensor is evolutionary.

:) ... MomentsForZen (Richard)
If the 44x33 sensor is not MF then watch out what one might call the Leica S sensor.I would call the 44x33 a "cropped MF" and the S a "Super FF".
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
Yes, I also believe the 90mm at 3.2 will give a beautiful bokeh/separation.
while its not comparable to an 85m Otus at 1.4, it will be still pretty ...
Remember that one of the fundamental reasons to pick 35mm format was that one could obtain enough DoF to make 'usefully sharp' photos while still using a large lens opening. With a 75-90 mm lens on 35mm, I don't find a lens opening much larger than f/4 to be particularly useful in portraiture... not enough DoF.

The modern craze for ultra-razor-thin DoF is, to my eye, a real distraction in most of the photos I see with that. 'Good bokeh' is not "how much blur" but "the quality of the blur" ... With good bokeh, the background becomes pleasantly unsharp, not just a mush of indistinguishable shapes and forms, and doubling lines/hollow-circle effects are minimal.

So far, I see nothing but lovely bokeh in all the sample images made with the X1D.

G
 
With good bokeh, the background becomes pleasantly unsharp, not just a mush of indistinguishable shapes and forms, and doubling lines/hollow-circle effects are minimal.

So far, I see nothing but lovely bokeh in all the sample images made with the X1D.

G
I do some detail shots with my portraits (eye lashes etc) and it's for these type of shots I'm concerned. Most of the photos shown so far has had a fair bit of distance between the subject and background which won't be the case I'm worried about.

It's possible that the portability Hasselblad is aiming for with the X1D and its lens lineup does not fit into some of my edge use cases for it. Maybe I could buy one of them H lenses or a Fuji GFX to accompany by X1D :)

I wonder when they will announce the next couple of lenses for the X1D.
 

ddanois

Member
IT'S HERE!!!

The family is finally together and looking to have a good time. Battery is charging and I'll share images and feedback as soon as possible. Hope others received their camera as well.

Derek

Sorry for the terrible photo but I don't have much patience to pretty it up just now...

IMG_7397.jpg
 
Thanks so much Josh!
Thats all very useful to know

May I ask how is the X1D EVF in comparison to the one of the Leica Q ? (Size,Resolution, color accuracy,ect.)

Thank you!
Ettore
So I looked through all 3 last night, the X1D, the Q and the GH4. I think they are all very similar. The Q looks a little clearer when you zoom in to focus, but its such a wide frame otherwise that I can't really tell a difference. If there is a quality difference, I think we are taking maybe 10% less in terms of resolution. But the plus size is that I feel like the X1D's EVF is huge and immersive. As I mentioned before it's not the SL's EVF. But I'm happy with it.
 
IT'S HERE!!!

The family is finally together and looking to have a good time. Battery is charging and I'll share images and feedback as soon as possible. Hope others received their camera as well.

Derek

Sorry for the terrible photo but I don't have much patience to pretty it up just now...

View attachment 123664
Congrats Derek!!! Looking forward to seeing a shot comparison between the 30 & 45 lens. One request if you get a chance. If you have the opportunity to do a full length vertical shot of someone with the two lenses at some point, I'd love to see if there's perspective distortion with the 30. Nothing fancy.

Happy Shooting!
 

ddanois

Member
Thanks Josh! Your commentary has been a big help in understand the behavior of the camera so I'm looking forward to getting out with it later today.

I'll try to get the vertical shot to compare the two lenses.

Best,
Derek
 
How did you feel about the lenses and their relative slowness? You mentioned you would use it for portrait, which is what I want to use it for, but I am slightly concerned about achieving enough subject/background separation at the largest aperture on the 90mm (3.2).

Great little write-ups btw. Thanks for that :)
Erik,
I was able to get my friend to pose for 5 minutes. Can you tell the difference between the f/3.2 and f/4 shots?
 

Attachments

Thanks Josh! Your commentary has been a big help in understand the behavior of the camera so I'm looking forward to getting out with it later today.

I'll try to get the vertical shot to compare the two lenses.

Best,
Derek
Thanks Derek! Also, if you could do one horizontal from each of the same scene that would be awesome to see the coverage difference. That's all my requests... :clap:
 

dougpeterson

Workshop Member
Congratulations to Hasselblad (and those who purchased) on starting to ship the X1D! It can now be said a new era (mirrorless larger then 35mm digital cameras) has officially begun. It's a nascent category I expect to grow steadily in the coming years. It's pretty rare, really, for a new category of camera to be born, so I, for one, am having a whiskey in celebration tonight.
 

D&A

Well-known member
IT'S HERE!!!

The family is finally together and looking to have a good time. Battery is charging and I'll share images and feedback as soon as possible. Hope others received their camera as well.

Derek

Sorry for the terrible photo but I don't have much patience to pretty it up just now...

View attachment 123664
I'll echo the congrats Derek. A fine looking family.

Three brief questions.

1. I assume no internal GPS?

2. Is there an option to reverse function of the two control wheels such as when they are used for controling shutter speed and apature or alternatively reversing which one scrolls through horizontal AF points and which one changes vertical points? I was unable to do this with the demo unit I tried a couple months ago.

3. What firmware revision is on your camera?

Thanks and enjoy. Oh I assume t the "H" on the lens caps stands for "Happy"? :)

Dave (D&A)
 
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ddanois

Member
That's great news Derek. :thumbs: Congratulations. Since you were one of the first to order from B&H on June 22, I'm encouraged to hang in there and wait. As you begin to exercise your new system, please share with us any impressions you have about its performance, especially comparisons to other cameras you've owned (which as I recall, we "shared" :cool:). I'm especially interested in AF performance as it would pertain to landscape and portrait photography (i.e., no subject movement). Also, did the camera come with an updated manual or a link to an online updated manual?

Joe
Quick reply on a couple of questions posed:

1) The GPS question has been answered...there is a document in the box that needs to be filled out, and returned to the dealer, in order to receive the "external GPS module" free of charge.

2) Same e-manual included on the usb stick that's on Hasselblad site

Joe, I'll come back with the performance comparisons as soon as possible.

Derek
 

D&A

Well-known member
Thanks. Derek. Thats interesting about the GPS. I wonder when it will be made available. Looking forward to your subjective observations as I'm sure many are.

Dave (D&A)
 
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