Having second thoughts about the X1D...

[Godfrey]

Shame on you for letting the purchase of a car interfere with the purchase of a camera. Where are your priorities man?!! Letting gas get in the way of GAS is inexcusable. :ROTFL:

Well, I do need something to carry all the nice German cameras in so I can go make photographs ... Think of it as an ultra-cool camera bag, eh? :angel:

G

 

[pflower]

Are you saying that the 35-90 on the lens adapter did have auto focus enabled or that this is what is promised in the future? I am firmly on board for an X1D with the 30mm and 45mm but less certain about the 90mm's usefulness for me. So I was hoping that I could use my HC 80mm with an adapter instead. AF would make that decision a bit easier. Mind you who knows when any of this is going to be readily available.

...... i just saw the current firmware and mounted the 35-90 HC via lens adapter and have to say, having that option (with AF btw), along with all their fixed focus length HC/HCD lenses, does make for a very compelling kit addition.

All that's is obviously a very general observation and might not apply to all. If the contrast range is manageable by your current setup, the lens performance is up to your expectation, rendering of 35mm lenses on a 35mm chip meets your vision and the leaf shutter is something you can be without, then would probably side with your second round of thoughts about this camera.

 

[Hausen]

Re: NOT having second thoughts about the X1D...

Enter the Hasselblad X1D. Yes, there is every opportunity for Hass to screw the pooch, but I don't think they will.

Screw the pooch, always loved that saying!

 

[algrove]

Joe, once you turn 70 you might have other ideas. :ROTFL:

Early adopters can have early problems.:bugeyes:

 

[Guy Mancuso]

My first couple thoughts not necessarily in any order are will it kick the pants off my Sony and not just a a little , it has to have some meat to it. Will it truly work for me or are my wants overshadowing my needs, can I afford it and what does it ultimately buy me in real world. Having a Hassy means squat to me , I'm not a label guy by any means when it comes to cameras. Will it produce better images overall for clients second part of that will they even know it does or does not. Most won't but some maybe. Some more compromises can I deal with the limitations and the work around, service and support is always a sticky one. Loaners , dealers, pirates just stealing your money. That was a funny but you get the idea. Will Phocus make me eart my socks to work for me. Lol

See when you start thinking this crap than your toast you overthought it and die with money in the bank, which why would you want to do that. :grin:

It's like voting next week, you know your voting for one not to get in office. Lol

 

[Erik Lundqvist]

Well, I do need something to carry all the nice German cameras in so I can go make photographs ... Think of it as an ultra-cool camera bag, eh? :angel:

G

Let's go for a Roadtrip!

 

[Erik Lundqvist]

It's really the opposite for me. I had a number of concerns when it was first announced, but with time Hasselblad has really answered pretty much all of them. Previewing exposure, number of focus points and focusing speed have all been resolved more or less. What remains unanswered is the startup time and blackout time, but there is plenty of time to have that fixed, and if not I can always cancel my pre-order and want for something else.

I will most likely keep my Fuji cameras to start with though. They are even lighter than the X1D and I have two zooms which covers 16-140mm and are fantastic for walking about with when you don't feel like swapping lenses every 2 seconds.

But not for a moment will I pretend that I NEED the X1D

 

[vjbelle]

My first couple thoughts not necessarily in any order are will it kick the pants off my Sony and not just a a little , it has to have some meat to it. Will it truly work for me or are my wants overshadowing my needs, can I afford it and what does it ultimately buy me in real world. Having a Hassy means squat to me , I'm not a label guy by any means when it comes to cameras. Will it produce better images overall for clients second part of that will they even know it does or does not. Most won't but some maybe. Some more compromises can I deal with the limitations and the work around, service and support is always a sticky one. Loaners , dealers, pirates just stealing your money. That was a funny but you get the idea. Will Phocus make me eart my socks to work for me. Lol

See when you start thinking this crap than your toast you overthought it and die with money in the bank, which why would you want to do that. :grin:

It's like voting next week, you know your voting for one not to get in office. Lol

Only you can determine whether or not the next purchase should be an X1D..... but if I were in your shoes I would be on the sidelines. I can't imagine a client needing any more than 42MP and lenses available for the Sony go from here to eternity. I have, though, always thought that the 35mm size chip has its limitations and may be near the end of its life for MP increases. Diffraction will put unbelievable constraints on any 60 or 70MP 35mm size chip. The logical next step was a larger chip and the 33X44 chip fits those needs. For me the next generation of this chip may be of interest. Even then, though, I have other stuff in my arsenal if it has to go on a tripod and to shell out over $20,000 for a walk around camera for secondary use seems a little extreme to me..... Your needs are different and much more serious.....

Good luck with your decision......

Victor

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Very true Victor and a well known saying in sports. I'm riding the pines on this.

 

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi Victor,

Just a small point, diffraction will not really limit small pixel sensors if used at moderate apertures like f/5.6 or f/4. Just as an example the A7rII I have produces significant moiré at f/8, so I guess that it would need around f/11 for diffraction to limit resolution.

From that I guess that optimum pixel size woould be somewhere around 2,5 microns, or say 140 MP.

DoF at 140 MP and f/5.6 would of course be rasor thin. With a larger format you would need to stop down a bit more and you would run into the very same diffraction limit.

Another way to see it is that diffraction only depends on aperture diameter, that decides the angular resolution. With a longer lens the same angular resolution will be projected larger. That is the reason that astronomers are that interested in telescope diameters.

I can post an example later.

A guy called Jim Kasson has done a very detailed analysis and the image below illustrates some interesting things:

What it shows that MTF 50 is pretty constant with decreasing pixel size at f/12, but even at f/8 there is a significant benefit of reduced pixel size.

Jim's posting is "kitchen physics" I think he would say but still takes some effort to read: MTF50 vs f-stop and pixel pitch

Best regards
Erik

Diffraction will put unbelievable constraints on any 60 or 70MP 35mm size chip.

Victor

 

[PedroL]

Post some pics. I live in NC and didn't get to the Smokies this fall. I'd love to see what you captured with the X1D.

Joe

Hi Joe, We shoot mostly panoramas. I am uploading to my dropbox a few RAW images and 2 panos - 1 is 84 images from Maggie Valley and the other only 8 shot panorama. 84 were processed only in small jpeg preview, the other (8 shots) pano is full size.
When uploaded, will send you a PM with link to my dropbox. Those images I practically did not see yet therefore I do not believe it should be posted for public view. You are free to make a comment any way, once you see it. And will appreciated your feedback as well.
We had a workshop based in Gatlinburg and most of the images were taken with attendees as I do not take pictures at my workshops. When we have a final product, which is being post processed by my artistic partner Courtenay, I will upload more of them. I can tell you, I am Hasselblad shooter since 1972 and this X1D is a total pleasure to use.

 

[hcubell]

I had a good fortune to have a X1D on my workshop in Smokies last week. There was not a single glitch, or problem - the camera working to perfection. And weather it is need or want... we are all different.
Everyone in doubt should try this great camera and the need or want become irrelevant.
I have this unit in my Hasselblad store and you are welcome to come in and try it.

Do you know what firmware the cameras were running?

 

[vjbelle]

Just a small point, diffraction will not really limit small pixel sensors if used at moderate apertures like f/5.6 or f/4. Just as an example the A7rII I have produces significant moiré at f/8, so I guess that it would need around f/11 for diffraction to limit resolution.


Erik

Yes...... I agree Erik. My point was/is that there are fewer lenses available that can use those apertures (f4.0, f5.6) and take advantage of all of the pixels. I did the calculations for a 60MP chip and as I recall the pixel size was really small (low 4 or high 3's). My math isn't as sharp as it used to be and I had to do a lot of hunting to come up with the equations that allowed me to back into finding the pixel size. Anyway I feel that the larger sensor size (33X44) takes into account this issue and keeps the pixel size larger which means less diffraction at smaller apertures.

I don't claim to be an expert in this department and probably know just enough to just keep my head above water......

Victor

 

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

I just wanted to say that diffraction is not the beast it is often said to be and that it affects all formats.

Best regards
Erik

Yes...... I agree Erik. My point was/is that there are fewer lenses available that can use those apertures (f4.0, f5.6) and take advantage of all of the pixels. I did the calculations for a 60MP chip and as I recall the pixel size was really small (low 4 or high 3's). My math isn't as sharp as it used to be and I had to do a lot of hunting to come up with the equations that allowed me to back into finding the pixel size. Anyway I feel that the larger sensor size (33X44) takes into account this issue and keeps the pixel size larger which means less diffraction at smaller apertures.

I don't claim to be an expert in this department and probably know just enough to just keep my head above water......

Victor

 

[jerome_m]

As exciting as the X1D sounds, the rational side of my brain is wondering if I should cancel my pre-order. I know everyone's needs are different, and I thought the X1D would fulfill my needs (and let's face it, wants...), but as I go through a pro/con list for me, I am not so sure anymore it makes sense to keep my pre-order open.

(...)

May I give another opinion?

I did not pre-order the X1D at all. Sure, it is a very tempting camera. Sure, I am over 50 and life is short (I don't expect to die soon, by who knows?...). But if I need 50 millions pixels, I already have a perfectly good H4D-50 and if I need it light and compact, I have other cameras.

If I understood correctly, you have a perfectly good A7RII, the difference with the X1D on prints, will be small. Conversely, the difference in comfort, ease of post-processing, pleasure while taking the pictures or even... -God forbid!- bragging rights may be significant, but is that worth 10K? Not for me, but that is a decision each person must make on his (or her!) own.

 

[hcubell]

May I give another opinion?

I did not pre-order the X1D at all. Sure, it is a very tempting camera. Sure, I am over 50 and life is short (I don't expect to die soon, by who knows?...). But if I need 50 millions pixels, I already have a perfectly good H4D-50 and if I need it light and compact, I have other cameras.
.

Sure, but the ideal would be to have one camera that combines both features....the image quality of the H4D-50 in a relatively compact form factor.

 

[jerome_m]

Sure, but the ideal would be to have one camera that combines both features....the image quality of the H4D-50 in a relatively compact form factor.

The "ideal" camera does not exist and never will. Exchange the H4D with the X1D, you have less lens choices, you lose the glorious viewfinder, etc... You win plenty of other things, of course, we all know that, but the point is that it is not perfect.

On the other end of the spectrum, the A7RII is almost as good, even smaller and has stabilisation. If your criteria are more over weight and bulk, the A7RII is an even better choice. But it is not perfect either.

We can discuss till the end of times, we will never all agree. Which is a good thing, I suppose.

 

[msstudio]

Are you saying that the 35-90 on the lens adapter did have auto focus enabled or that this is what is promised in the future? I am firmly on board for an X1D with the 30mm and 45mm but less certain about the 90mm's usefulness for me. So I was hoping that I could use my HC 80mm with an adapter instead. AF would make that decision a bit easier. Mind you who knows when any of this is going to be readily available.

Yes. At the PhotoExpo in NY they demoed the X1D with adapters and a couple of fixed lenses. I asked for the 35-90, as I shoot that often, and it worked perfectly fine. Maybe a little slower than the H6D, but otherwise zero issues, zoomed around, and it actually is a nice little package, obviously considering the lens is huge to begin with. But I would compare it to the SonyA7 with the 2.8 24-70 relation/package, the lens takes over, just super sized. Felt good and I'm pretty convinced I'm adding this to my kit. Nothing beats a nice quality file.

 

[Bill_Evans]

It's hard to argue that a $9k camera plus lenses is a need. Although it seemed pretty easy to spend at least that working my up through the Sony food change (A7, A7ii, A7Rii etc) plus all the lenses I "needed". But for me, I'm looking to move my landscape photography in a different direction with a shift towards quality over quantity. No more backpack filled with 5 or 6 or more lenses covering every possible focal length. Just a 2 or 3 lens system that best suites my vision with a camera that meets my needs and is a joy to use. I don't expect revolutionary improvement in image quality over the Sony A7Rii, but I'm starting to think that for me the X1D will be a monumental improvement in usability and joy over the Sony bodies.

I still don't know if I can swing the costs, but I'm starting to put some price tags on things around the house.

Bill

 

[hcubell]

The "ideal" camera does not exist and never will. Exchange the H4D with the X1D, you have less lens choices, you lose the glorious viewfinder, etc... You win plenty of other things, of course, we all know that, but the point is that it is not perfect.

On the other end of the spectrum, the A7RII is almost as good, even smaller and has stabilisation. If your criteria are more over weight and bulk, the A7RII is an even better choice. But it is not perfect either.

We can discuss till the end of times, we will never all agree. Which is a good thing, I suppose.

Of course. There are always trade offs, but that doesn't mean we ever give up the quest for that perfect set of trade offs. Do you have both an H4D-50 and an A7rII? If so, I would be curious to hear your observations about what, if any, you gain in image quality in prints with the H4D-50 over the A7RII. (Assuming the H4D-50 has the Sony 50MP sensor, not the Kodak 50MP CCD sensor.)