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Which system?

Chapel

Member
Recently my wife and I got talked into doing some wedding photography. We are amateur enthusiasts mostly though we have done a little paid work and I have some pictures on some stock sites. I use a Mamiya AFDII with a Leaf Aptus II-8 back. My wife uses a Sony A7R2.

The wedding was delayed for an hour or more which put the photo sessions into the early evening when it was getting dark and I really struggled with ISO 100-200 getting anything that looked like I new what I was doing. The Portraits were ok because I brought a soft box and speed light which gave me something to show.

My wife pictures were good plus I had borrowed a Nikon D7100 so all was not lost.

So my questions is. I really like medium format. So, if I upgrade on an extreme budget would an iq140-iq160 in sensor plus have nice clean files to work on at iso800-1200 or would I be better off with a Pentax 645Z? The price is about the same as I already have some Mamiya lenses and would have to start over with the Pentax.

Thanks for your input.

Greg
 

JohnBrew

Active member
If you need something for low light you're probably going to be happier with a CMOS sensor which is integrated into a camera body - currently Pentax, Hasselblad H5D or H6D or Leica S007. If you can wait (might be a while!) then the choices expand with the Hasselblad X1D or Fuji GFX.
 

steve_cor

Member
Greg,
If you want to use an off camera main light in a softbox with a radio trigger, the question is how to quickly balance it to the existing light. I don't know of any TTL system for Leaf Aptus, and metering it every time the light changes is too slow.

Marc is a wedding photographer so maybe he can help us. He says:
"Many social/event/corporate photographers, including myself, use radio triggered off-camera strobes as key ... and an on-camera TTL speed-light in the hot-shoe for fill ... this provides maximum roaming ability at functions or weddings."




--Steve.
 

Paul2660

Well-known member
Recently my wife and I got talked into doing some wedding photography. We are amateur enthusiasts mostly though we have done a little paid work and I have some pictures on some stock sites. I use a Mamiya AFDII with a Leaf Aptus II-8 back. My wife uses a Sony A7R2.

The wedding was delayed for an hour or more which put the photo sessions into the early evening when it was getting dark and I really struggled with ISO 100-200 getting anything that looked like I new what I was doing. The Portraits were ok because I brought a soft box and speed light which gave me something to show.

My wife pictures were good plus I had borrowed a Nikon D7100 so all was not lost.

So my questions is. I really like medium format. So, if I upgrade on an extreme budget would an iq140-iq160 in sensor plus have nice clean files to work on at iso800-1200 or would I be better off with a Pentax 645Z? The price is about the same as I already have some Mamiya lenses and would have to start over with the Pentax.

Thanks for your input.

Greg
The IQ140 and 160 in sensor plus at the ISO ranges you mention will work very well. If you can live with th 3/4 drop in resolution.

Flip side the 645z still seems to have the best overall implementation of the Sony 50mp sensor providing an excellent overall ISO range. And at full resolution.

Paul Caldwell
 
If low-light performance is important to you then no medium format system can match the 35mm format system because medium format digital lacks fast lenses. The sensor size of the medium format digital sensors do not compensate enough for the slow lenses.

It's also worth to note that no CCD sensor can outperform a modern APSC Sony CMOS in terms of low light performance. Not even "Sensor+" can win it.
 

Chapel

Member
Thanks JohnBrew, That's what I was thinking but I was trying not to start over from scratch.

steve_cor, I used a speed light as fill and also to trigger my main light. Nothing I have does metering. But, I had time to practice on what would work. The issue was the walk around photography, guests, reception etc.

Paul, I'll have to check sound for some files to compare to see if I can live with 10-15mp.

Also, I like tethered shooting with Capture One which isn't supported with any of the other brand systems I don't think.

Thanks for the responses.

Greg
 

Bernard

Member
The other, probably cheaper, option is to keep your AFD for groups and portraits, and then switch to a 35mm camera system for the remainder of the day. Speed is much more important than resolution after the groups are done, and you will certainly appreciate the lightness.
 

kdphotography

Well-known member
It really was not that long ago that many wedding photographers (myself included) shot entire weddings with medium format film, using no more than two Mamiya AF/AFD bodies (yup, the first generation body!) and pro-packs of Portra 160/400 and begrudgingly 800. But we made it work. You just had to bring a lot more lighting power and use your head as a photographer to make things work and get the shot. The point being, having a MFDB that can change ISO/speed with the touch of a button and get the shot is pretty fantastic. The autofocus of the XF is literally just astounding compared to the first generation AF/AFD.

That being said, a good full frame DSLR is just so much easier to use for most wedding photography shots. I would still use the MFDB for your formals or any images you feel confident that your clients will purchase in a larger size. With the formals or "altar returns" you have enough time to meter your studio lights manually and balance the shot---using any MFDB back. Yes, even that MFDB with a CCD sensor will produce absolutely stunning and gorgeous formal portraits. Imagine the envy of other wedding photographers shooting formals with mere DSLRs with CMOS sensors! :loco::grin::thumbup::ROTFL: I'm with Bernard---FF DSLR for most of the wedding shots; MFDB system for the formals.

If you like tethering, then I would definitely opt for a Phase One IQ series MFDB with USB3 capability. With the introduction of the IQ3 series, you might find a worthwhile deal on a IQ150/250 MFDB, getting both USB3 capability and a CMOS sensor MFDB so Voidshatter won't feel inclined to insult your intelligence for having a lowly CCD MFDB. A CMOS sensor MFDB is newer and shinier after all. :rolleyes::D:grin:

Ken
 
you might find a worthwhile deal on a IQ150/250 MFDB
In terms of low-light performance:

35mm format CMOS with f/1.4 > 54x40 CMOS with f/2.8 ~= APSC CMOS with f/1.2 > 44x33 CMOS with f/2.8 > Any CCD solution

The IQ150/250 will never be an optimal solution for low-light wedding.
 

tcdeveau

Well-known member
This is one of those types of queries where its pretty subjective so you're going to get a different answer from each person.

From my experience shooting weddings, if I were you, I would use 35mm FF and keep your current MF kit, and only invest more in MF for weddings if you knew for sure you could make your investment back. It's of course my opinion, but using MF for weddings is full of compromises that one doesn't have to make with 35mm FF. 35mm FF is much more versatile AF is faster and more responsive, wider lens selection, faster lenses, etc etc. Light changes quickly, people show up late and often pictures are rushed with wedding planners barking orders and you don't have proper set up time, etc....in these scenarios 35mm FF is just so much easier to use. You can always pull out your current MF kit when you have more time and control over the scenario for first look/post-ceremony portraits/etc, but I find with wedding chaos trying to keep track of multiple systems is an necessary PITA. Also it's my personal preference, but the 70-200mm f2.8 was my fav wedding lens, and there's not really an MF equivalent. FWIW I'm also not convinced wedding clients could tell the difference between MF and todays 35mm FF cameras, and clients are more wowed by the OOF areas of the f1.4 35mm lenses than MF. I also found that a lot of potential wedding clients were looking for the cheapest option, and could care less about the gear one used.

If you do decide to upgrade, I'd go with a CMOS MF solution. After going from CCD to CMOS MF myself, it's hard to imagine going back to CCD and the compromises that have to be made with CCD. If you want to stick with Mamiya/Phase, I've seen some decent deals on Credo 50s and IQ250s lately. There are also good deals to be had with used 645z's (the route I took), and used Pentax A and FA film lenses can be picked up and used on the 645z very cheap compared to Mamiya/Phase/Hasselblad lenses (especially the A manual focus-only lenses).

Good luck with your decision!
 

Geoff

Well-known member
In terms of low-light performance:

35mm format CMOS with f/1.4 > 54x40 CMOS with f/2.8 ~= APSC CMOS with f/1.2 > 44x33 CMOS with f/2.8 > Any CCD solution

The IQ150/250 will never be an optimal solution for low-light wedding.
Oh, if it were only this simple.
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
Everybody knows I am a Phase guy for MF, so I will first begin with that caveat.

*IF* I needed a system to specifically shoot low-light/available-light weddings, I would probably just stick to FF DSLR -- in my case my D810's and existing glass, all quite usable for my tastes up to ISO 3200 or even 6400 if really needed.

However, if I also *had to have MF*, then I would likely choose the Phase IQ250. I have not seen a lot of them, but the few ISO 3200 samples I have seen look very good. But then if I were not a dedicated C1 user, and as long as I was shopping and going to max out a couple of my CC's anyway, I'd probably also look at the Leica S007... :)
 

Chapel

Member
Thanks for all the advice. Has anyone actually used or seen files from an IQ140 or 160 in sensor plus at high iso?
Greg
 

MGrayson

Subscriber and Workshop Member
Why yes!

IQ 140 Hand held Cambo/SK 35 :cool:







Well, the groom was using a Graflex....

--Matt
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
Thanks for all the advice. Has anyone actually used or seen files from an IQ140 or 160 in sensor plus at high iso?
Greg
Yes. Keep in mind that Sensor+ combines 2x2 existing pixels into 1 new S+ pixel, so resolution from the IQ160 nets out to 15MP, or 4492x1682 px. So a downside is your max quality print size is going to end up around 15 inches. Next, in S+ on the IQ160, I would say ISO 1600 is good. So if those limitations will work for you, then it's a viable option...
 

MGrayson

Subscriber and Workshop Member
Thank you. 1600 would be fine.
Mgrayson what iso are your pictures?
Greg
ISO 1600. The picture of the bride was lifted almost 3 stops, hence the noise. The bride and groom examining Polaroids was lifted only about 3/4 stop.
 
Oh, if it were only this simple.
I could give you more calculations and measurement data if you want.

IQ 140 Hand held Cambo/SK 35 :cool:
Nice pictures! But these are just shooting with artificial light which makes the backgrounds look dark and noisy. If these were shot with a CMOS (and preferably with a fast lens like f/1.4) then these backgrounds could look more natural.

Thank you. 1600 would be fine.
Mgrayson what iso are your pictures?
Greg
Keep in mind that according to DxOMark's measurements, ISO1600 of a CCD such like IQ180 is only as bright as ISO800 of Nikon D5. I would strongly advise you to do a side by side comparison before you purchase. There has been loads of debates regarding Fujifilm's cheating with highly inflated ISOs, so just make sure you are not caught in this.

56.jpg
 

kdphotography

Well-known member
Nice images, Matt. And a Cambo handheld to boot! I like the Graflex, particularly since I have a small collection of them. I'm sure the groom appreciated the big camera charm (Hey! You could have even used a film back on the Cambo!). You should download all the DXO charts too and match the graphs up with each image. I'm sure your clients will be simply amazed. :p

Ken
 
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