Phase One IQ150

[debabrata.ray]

Hey Guys,

As some of you know, I've been looking to enter the medium format photography scene. I live in Sweden and based on Doug's suggestion have been in touch with a local PhaseOne dealer regarding the purchase. They've informed me that they have an IQ150 back with a 645 DF+ body and 80mm LS lens available. This is a refurbished kit with a 1 year warranty from PhaseOne and costs Euro 12100 ex-VAT. I've been trying to scrape the internet for information on the IQ150, but there's not much available. All I keep coming up with is that its the IQ250 without the WiFi and that it uses the older IQ1 series back casing. I just want some more information, some pictures that you've taken if you've used the back to convince myself before I make an investment (a substantial one for me as you can see).
Any help / advice would be well appreciated!
I mainly shoot portraits and fashion - my style is to shoot more onlocation and therefore advice keeping that in mind will also be essential.

You can check my work at Debabrata Ray (@portraitsbyray) • Instagram photos and videos or on my website D|R

Best regards,
Deb

 

[dougpeterson]

IQ150 = IQ250 - Wifi - Warranty

So anything you find/see about the IQ250 applies (other than wifi/warranty). The color, tone, ISO, speed, interface is otherwise identical.

I've PM'd you a folder of IQ250 raw files from our larger overall raw catalog. Your dealer should be able to provide you even more raws to play with.

 

[Grayhand]

This game of digital back is all about professional support from your dealer!
So a little hint as you are based in Sweden:

Contact Martin Widen, Scandinavian Photo.
I have bought 3 Phase One backs from him.

He has an pathologically high level of support.
I have never met any other sale person as good as him.

I am not saying that all the others are bad, only that in my opinion, he is the best :thumbup:

And if it is him you are dealing with, then you are in good hands :thumbs:

And for the record, Sorry, I know absolutely nothing about the IQ150,

Ray

But Doug Do!

 

[debabrata.ray]

IQ150 = IQ250 - Wifi - Warranty

So anything you find/see about the IQ250 applies (other than wifi/warranty). The color, tone, ISO, speed, interface is otherwise identical.

I've PM'd you a folder of IQ250 raw files from our larger overall raw catalog. Your dealer should be able to provide you even more raws to play with.

Thanks Doug! Helpful as always! Appreciate that!

BR
Deb

 

[debabrata.ray]

This game of digital back is all about professional support from your dealer!
So a little hint as you are based in Sweden:

Contact Martin Widen, Scandinavian Photo.
I have bought 3 Phase One backs from him.

He has an pathologically high level of support.
I have never met any other sale person as good as him.

I am not saying that all the others are bad, only that in my opinion, he is the best :thumbup:

And if it is him you are dealing with, then you are in good hands :thumbs:

And for the record, Sorry, I know absolutely nothing about the IQ150,

Ray

But Doug Do!

Thanks Grayhand. I'm talking to Lasse Pettersson from Pro Center - which apparently is now bought over by Scandinavian Photo. He's a new guy, who's come in place of Tomas Hedenstrom, who apparently I was quite unhappy with. He's now left Scandinavian Photo and joined Goecker, another provider here in Sweden. Lasse is prompt in responding to my emails, thats a good start. Tomas was pretty hard to get to, and the only demo I got to do of a kit was in his office taking a few shots of the flyover I could see from the window.

But what I understand is that the IQ150 and 250 are really the same back, minus the warranty and WiFi. Atleast that means I'll be buying into a relatively newer generation CMOS sensor, which is great considering this is going to be a long-time purchase.

Thanks for your help guys!

BR
Deb

 

[ejpeiker]

As previously stated, the IQ-150 is the same thing as an IQ-250 without WiFi capability. If there's anyway he can put an XF body into that kit rather than a 645DF+, you'd probably be happier long term even if it costs you 2000 Euro or so more. It is a huge jump in capability and system stability from the old Mamyia 645 derived body.

 

[kdphotography]

+1 on getting the Phase XF body (even if you have to pony up some more money).

AF performance alone (for portraiture) is worth the upgrade to the XF.

Waist level finder option?

Integrated Profoto Air.

Better build and reliability.

Lots more....

 

[Transposure]

Hi Deb,
I can't speak for the IQ150 or IQ250, but what has already been said obviously answers that question. I will offer this to you though, the Credo 50 is very similar to the IQ150 and could represent an additional savings to counteract the additional cost of what I write below...
I would like to echo the advice regarding the camera. I went from a Mamiya 645DF body (Same as Phase 645DF) with a Mamiya DM33 back to a Phase One 645 DF+ body (Same as a Mamiya 645DF+) with the same back, to a Credo 60 back (Nearly the same to Phase One IQ160 back) and then rid myself of the 645DF+ for the Phase One XF.
I say "rid myself" because the body did what it was supposed to do, but it just wasn't where I thought it should be for a professional level body due to a variety of reasons. My following comments are my opinion and they are heavily weighted in light of my current experience using the new XF body, coming from two previous DF type bodies...
Autofocus:
XF is fast and quite accurate. DF/DF+ was slow and it would hunt for focus.
Build:
XF seems like it is hewn from a solid block of aluminum. DF/DF+ is mostly plastic outer surfaces and not in the same league.
Handling:
The grip and interface on the XF is exemplary. From the iphone-like interface to the more ergonomic grip, it just makes sense. The grip on the DF/DF+ is just odd. I have large hands and always felt like I was holding onto a baseball whenever I held it. The grip is seemingly too fat to put it bluntly. Add to that the top screen, which is so difficult to read and the XF shines in comparison.
Reliability:
I found the DF/DF+ to lock up and in need for a reboot often when shooting fast. I also shoot what you shoot and having to do that with a client in front of you or behind you in the case of editorial or advertising, is embarrassing. The XF seems much better. Some people have zero problems, I have had some lockups, but not to the degree of the DF/DF+.
Investment:
The DF/DF+ is certainly at a better price point. You can't argue that. However, if you are getting into MFD. If you have a bad experience, as a result of the lackluster DF/DF+ series body, I predict you'll be put-off. If the experience is a good one, you will immerse yourself further and run with it. Example...when I had the DF/DF+'s, I would use them sparingly in comparison to my DSLR kits. Why? Because it was always a pain in the arse to focus and the lockups were bothersome. With the XF, I look forward to its use. The entire experience is better.

Of course you can always upgrade the body and I get that, but, if you are not enthused because the 645DF/DF+ causes missed shots, it is time and money lost. If you can swing the XF, I highly recommend it. Your mileage may vary...

 

[GrahamWelland]

I owned the IQ150 for 20 months and really found it to be an excellent digital back. In addition to those differences between the IQ250 and IQ150 mentioned by others are also the extended software features. The IQ250 and IQ350 have additional features such as the exposure map, exposure peak highlight warning and the exposure calculator. Nice to have but not worth the additional costs of the IQ250 vs IQ150 unless you wanted the WIFI (and warranty).

Another big +1 on getting the XF body if you can. It was worth the extra. :thumbup:

 

[debabrata.ray]

Hi Deb,
I can't speak for the IQ150 or IQ250, but what has already been said obviously answers that question. I will offer this to you though, the Credo 50 is very similar to the IQ150 and could represent an additional savings to counteract the additional cost of what I write below...
I would like to echo the advice regarding the camera. I went from a Mamiya 645DF body (Same as Phase 645DF) with a Mamiya DM33 back to a Phase One 645 DF+ body (Same as a Mamiya 645DF+) with the same back, to a Credo 60 back (Nearly the same to Phase One IQ160 back) and then rid myself of the 645DF+ for the Phase One XF.
I say "rid myself" because the body did what it was supposed to do, but it just wasn't where I thought it should be for a professional level body due to a variety of reasons. My following comments are my opinion and they are heavily weighted in light of my current experience using the new XF body, coming from two previous DF type bodies...
Autofocus:
XF is fast and quite accurate. DF/DF+ was slow and it would hunt for focus.
Build:
XF seems like it is hewn from a solid block of aluminum. DF/DF+ is mostly plastic outer surfaces and not in the same league.
Handling:
The grip and interface on the XF is exemplary. From the iphone-like interface to the more ergonomic grip, it just makes sense. The grip on the DF/DF+ is just odd. I have large hands and always felt like I was holding onto a baseball whenever I held it. The grip is seemingly too fat to put it bluntly. Add to that the top screen, which is so difficult to read and the XF shines in comparison.
Reliability:
I found the DF/DF+ to lock up and in need for a reboot often when shooting fast. I also shoot what you shoot and having to do that with a client in front of you or behind you in the case of editorial or advertising, is embarrassing. The XF seems much better. Some people have zero problems, I have had some lockups, but not to the degree of the DF/DF+.
Investment:
The DF/DF+ is certainly at a better price point. You can't argue that. However, if you are getting into MFD. If you have a bad experience, as a result of the lackluster DF/DF+ series body, I predict you'll be put-off. If the experience is a good one, you will immerse yourself further and run with it. Example...when I had the DF/DF+'s, I would use them sparingly in comparison to my DSLR kits. Why? Because it was always a pain in the arse to focus and the lockups were bothersome. With the XF, I look forward to its use. The entire experience is better.

Of course you can always upgrade the body and I get that, but, if you are not enthused because the 645DF/DF+ causes missed shots, it is time and money lost. If you can swing the XF, I highly recommend it. Your mileage may vary...

Thanks Ken! Very valuable feedback. I'll keep that in mind while discussing with my dealer. Cheers!

 

[debabrata.ray]

As previously stated, the IQ-150 is the same thing as an IQ-250 without WiFi capability. If there's anyway he can put an XF body into that kit rather than a 645DF+, you'd probably be happier long term even if it costs you 2000 Euro or so more. It is a huge jump in capability and system stability from the old Mamyia 645 derived body.

Thanks for the feedback. Makes sense!

 

[subrata1965]

If you are entering into MF now, it's worth considering XF now. Phase is keep enabling the new features via firmware upgrades and this camera is getting better and better. In case there is a budget constraint, don't hesitate to buy a demo or refurbished body as well.

DF+ will also not hold much resale value.

I just upgraded to IQ150, XF & 120 LS BR. The deal was so good from my dealer Capture Integration, it was hard to resist the upgrade!

Subrata

 

[debabrata.ray]

If you are entering into MF now, it's worth considering XF now. Phase is keep enabling the new features via firmware upgrades and this camera is getting better and better. In case there is a budget constraint, don't hesitate to buy a demo or refurbished body as well.

DF+ will also not hold much resale value.

I just upgraded to IQ150, XF & 120 LS BR. The deal was so good from my dealer Capture Integration, it was hard to resist the upgrade!

Subrata

Thank you Subrata for the advice!

 

[debabrata.ray]

Dear All,

Wanted to let you know that I just received my PhaseOne camera system today. Based on the advice from all of you, I went for the PhaseOne XF body. It's a refurbished body and back. My dealer tells me the camera body has only about 150 exposures and was a demo unit. My dealer has confirmed though that it is fit with the new focusing screen and IQ150 back.
To my surprise, I got the following extras with the package (last I checked these weren't included with IQ1 series purchases I think),

• Pelican roller Hard Case
• 16GB CF Card (Not sure how many 50 MPX pictures that will take but sweet nonetheless)
• A dual card reader
• 4 Batteries
• gray cards
• Sensor cleaning kit
• 80mm f/2.8 blue ring LS lens

I haven't powered up the kit yet. Just went through the contents of the peli case now.
I'm really excited. Will take the camera out this weekend and share some pictures with the group!

Thanks again for your advice. Feels good to be a proud PhaseOne user.

Thanks!

 

[debabrata.ray]

Dear All,

In my last post I had mentioned that I finally received my PhaseOne XF camera system along with the IQ150 back and the 80mm blue ring lens. After reading through all material and some tests, I finally made some pictures of my son in my home studio. A few observations though:

• Man this thing is heavy!
• Coming from a DSLR, I guess I have to get used to the slow and sometimes inaccurate Autofocus. I got the half body shots in focus, but I could get only 1/3rd of the full length ones in focus. I guess this is where the Hasselblad AF shines. I was shooting at f/3.5 (I know its too shallow), but on my canon I shoot at f/1.2 I'm just a shallow DOF guy.
• I hope PhaseOne implements something like a true focus through a firmware update. I've read Doug's article on gyroscopes being already present in the XF body. One of the many reasons why I stretched even more to invest in the XF body.
• Colors and detail are fascinating & superb!
• That shutter clap though!!!
• The focus assist beam can be quite a distraction. I had a hard time getting my son to keep his eyes open.
• I was anxious whether the Phase system will work with my existing Godox lights. It seems to be working so far. I still need to see though till what maximum shutter speed will it sync with the leaf shutter.

Well so thats about it so far. I guess I'll post in the fun with MF images thread too...





Here's the setup for these two shots. This is shot with the Canon. I couldn't move back any further, so had to switch to my Canon to get the scene in frame. The large modifier is a 7ft silver deep umbrella and the background is a Gravity Backdrops background.



Hope you like it! Let me know what you think...

Cheers!

 

[voidshatter]

but on my canon I shoot at f/1.2 I'm just a shallow DOF guy.

Unfortunately this is a weakness of the medium format digital systems. Even with a fullframe 645 sensor you can hardly beat the bokehliciousness (i.e. degree of background separation from main subject) of the 35mm format systems, because these modern digital lenses for medium format are too slow.

In terms of bokehliciousness and signal-to-noise ratio under low-light situations:

A 80mm f/2.8 lens on a fullframe 645 sensor is equivalent as a 50mm f/1.8 lens on a 35mm format sensor;

A 80mm f/2.8 lens on a 44x33mm sensor is equivalent as a 63mm f/2.2 lens on a 35mm format sensor.

Other than sharper images, one advantage of the medium format systems would be the flash sync speed with the leaf shutter, which would shine when you shoot outdoors.

 

[steve_cor]

Deb,
This is in regards to the sometimes inaccurate Autofocus.

I am a bit surprised to hear your XF cannot focus correctly. Maybe your particular camera / lens needs to be adjusted. The new XF permits micro adjustments for individual lenses. They call it focus trim.

The new focusing screen matches the rectangle areas of the XF focus system. Maybe the problem is the focus point is just too big for pinpoint accuracy.

The final shipping ground glass has two rectangles, both smaller than the circle shown in the DF+ ground glass, and the smaller of which is quite tiny. They represent the average and spot focus areas respectively. It is a big improvement as far as indicating to the user exactly what the AF sensor is looking at. It should help tremendously when you see what the actual focus area is with the spot mode. To change from the default size AF area (outer rectangle) to the smaller, center area AF, select the AF Area icon from the XF top screen.

 

[gerald.d]

Unfortunately this is a weakness of the medium format digital systems. Even with a fullframe 645 sensor you can hardly beat the bokehliciousness (i.e. degree of background separation from main subject) of the 35mm format systems, because these modern digital lenses for medium format are too slow.

In terms of bokehliciousness and signal-to-noise ratio under low-light situations:

A 80mm f/2.8 lens on a fullframe 645 sensor is equivalent as a 50mm f/1.8 lens on a 35mm format sensor;

A 80mm f/2.8 lens on a 44x33mm sensor is equivalent as a 63mm f/2.2 lens on a 35mm format sensor.

Other than sharper images, one advantage of the medium format systems would be the flash sync speed with the leaf shutter, which would shine when you shoot outdoors.

Assuming one is happy to focus manually, there are MF set-ups that go way beyond anything 35mm can deliver.

Care to run your comparisons for the following? -

80mm/1.9
85mm/1.2
50mm/1.2

All options available to medium format shooters using the Alpa FPS.

Kind regards,

Gerald.

 

[DB5]

One of the limiting factors for medium format is slow lenses. If you want that 1.2 or 1.4 look from 135 formats you are very very limited with what you can use.

Why oh why has Phase One or Hasselblad not provided a solution here? If you think of the IQ100 backs pointing to the future of medium format, it's a pretty dire range of options. Phase One XF or Hasselblad H is it, and the Blad 100 2.2 is really the only thing getting close, but even at 100, it's a bit long. They need to make a 80mm f2 in my opinion.

 

[gerald.d]

One of the limiting factors for medium format is slow lenses. If you want that 1.2 or 1.4 look from 135 formats you are very very limited with what you can use.

Why oh why has Phase One or Hasselblad not provided a solution here? If you think of the IQ100 backs pointing to the future of medium format, it's a pretty dire range of options. Phase One XF or Hasselblad H is it, and the Blad 100 2.2 is really the only thing getting close, but even at 100, it's a bit long. They need to make a 80mm f2 in my opinion.

Nothing new here though, is there? The only (designed for) medium format lens that comes close would be the old Mamiya 80mm f/1.9.

The Canon /1.2's have been around for donkey's years, and MF never had anything (apart from the Mamiya 80/1.9) that got close to them.

Maybe - just maybe - the target market for MF has never had a big requirement for fast lenses in the standard to wide angle range.

For longer focal lengths there has always been close to parity (excepting the Canon 200/2 and 200/1.8). MF /2.8's exist at 120, 150, 200 and 300mm focal lengths.

I'm no technical expert, but presumably there are some challenges involved in building fast lenses with large image circles once you get under 100mm or so.

That being said, if you really, really, have to have fast glass on MF, there are options available to you thanks to cameras like the FPS and lenses such as the Canon 85/1.2 that gets close to covering the full frame MF sensor.

Kind regards,


Gerald.