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H6D 100 v XF 100

justalexander

New member
Just wondering if anyone has received an H6D100 yet?

If so do you have any comments regarding its reliability and performance both in relation to the H5D and the Phase One XF 100?

Justin
 

bdp

Member
Hi Justin,

I used Kennedy's demo H6D-100c for a week recently and all I can say is it is very impressive. I flogged it every day and had no problems whatsoever - live view, shooting all day, and even some Raw 4K video. The files are massive, and very sharp.

My previous camera was the H5D-40, and I now have a H6D-50c. The 100 is too much file for me - more storage needed, slower to do everything with them, and I don't need the megapixels. Also, I think I'm too used to the smaller chip size - I found for food I was actually too close a lot of the time with the extra chip real estate of the 100 and would probably have to get the 120 macro or 150 lens to get the perspective right. The 50 is slightly faster for tethering and frame rate for live video, which is to be expected, and more than enough MP for me.

I had to power it off the DC grip though, because it chewed about 4 batteries a day. Hasselblad really need to get the usb cable to power the back when shooting tethered. I hear this is in the works.

Can't speak of it in comparison the the Phase equivalent, I have never seen or tried one.

Ben
 

Paul2660

Well-known member
Interesting to hear the info on power consumption with the Hasselblad. I have never used it and never will. The IQ100, with an XF will make it for me all day on 2 batteries, and that is a lot of shooting and Live View. One battery in the camera and one battery in the XF. The Power share feature is an excellent one, and really works.

In average use, the IQ100 battery will drop to around 25% within 1 hour of use which is typical for all Phase backs I have used, however the XF battery will stay at around 90 percent for a much longer time frame and the power share feature allows you to have the back use the power from that cell.


The XF has an issue with it's battery door, where the internal battery catch will allow the XF battery to slip back, just enough where the battery will not register in the XF. My XF has this developed this issue and it was very clear that all of a sudden power share was not working anymore since the battery of the IQ100 is now powering both the XF and IQ100, and that will not last long at all. Fix is coming soon for the XF battery door, and there are plenty of "field" fixes already in place.

Paul Caldwell
 
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dougpeterson

Workshop Member
Note: I work at a dealer that chooses to sell Phase One but not Hasseblad. So although I work very hard to present fact based answers derived from hands on testing rather than spec's or marketing materials, my opinion must be considered biased.

I'd also point to my recent post about why it's VERY hard (sometimes directly unproductive) to try to judge reliability of products with very different market shares (i.e. installed base) by looking for feedback on internet forums. The IQ3 100mp has been shipping, in quantity, for just shy of a year and has been Phase's most successful product. There are a lot out there.

Re reliability: Paul mentioned the battery bay, which on some XFs did not have enough height to push all batteries into a fully seated position reliably. This was addressed in production – all new XFs are free of this issue, and anyone who has an earlier XF with this issue can contact their dealer to have it resolved. There is also general consensus that the viewfinder latch is too easy to accidentally engage; Phase One has acknowledged this and it will be improved shortly. There were the expected handful of bugs and quirks in early firmware and one of the more recent firmware updates had a bug that was addressed within a week. I'd say we are now at "maturity" where the typical growing pains of a brand new body are resolved (or in the case of the viewfinder issue, resolution underway).

Some Feature/Advantages of the Phase One XF/IQ3 100 over a Hassy kit

The XF has:
- focus stacking
- hyperfocal point focusing
- time lapse triggering
- top LCD bubble level
- metering when using the WLF
- built in Profoto air trigger (can be used with any light brand - just connect an Air Receiver)
- built in Profoto TTL
- built in Profoto air control
- flash duration meter
- customizable 2nd curtain flash offset (for hacking the flash duration of any flash)
- a touch screen interface with an elegant "lock" option
- an optional vertical grip
- an elegant auto-exposure system that allows intuitive control of min/max shutter/aperture/iso
- autofocus based on a million pixel high-frequency CMOS sensor, providing one point of AF that has extreme precision
- a five year warranty including a loaner during any service or repair (when purchased with an IQ3)

None of these features apply to the H body.

The IQ3 100mp has:
- an electronic shutter option (zero vibration, infinite durability)
- built-in battery for use on tech/view cameras
- exposure clipping indication (different than a normal exposure warning)
- long exposure calculator
- focus mask
- zone exposure calculator
- power sharing with the XF body, including hot swapping without the system turning off
- USB3 charging (BC1.2 compliant)
- Firewire 800 (provides another way of charging the back, and a backup tethering port)
- Great IIQ-S compressed format that keeps the raw to roughly half the size it would be otherwise

None of these apply to the Hassy back.

The P1 lens lineup:
- Is generally more recent in design
- Were ALL natively designed for the full frame 645 sensor
- The 28LS is only okay. Every other prime and zoom lens in the lineup is at least very good, most are excellent+.
- Allows use of ANY lens that will mount to the body (see my article on my favorite bokeh lenses) since it has a focal plane option
- Includes legacy lenses, many of which include autofocus, which vary from very good to mediocre, but can be picked up on the cheap. For example the 45mm AF (non D) is only pretty good, but can often be found for $300ish dollars. The 120mm MF Macro is excellent and can be found for $400ish dollars. I wouldn't suggest this route for your main/most-used lenses but it's a great way to flush out your range.
- Include a 5 year unlimited actuation/release warranty on all lenses purchased with your kit

None of these apply to the Hassy lenses.

Capture One (free for use with any Phase kit): [compared to Phocus]
- Significantly more featured (a complete list here would be quite long and boring; but there is no argument whatsoever that Capture One is more powerful)
- Extremely customizable
- Robust and leading support for nearly all small-format cameras, including tethering
- Developed by a team of programmers FAR larger than for Phocus, since they are funded by all the people buying it to use with 3rd party cameras)
- Includes anti-diffraction sharpening (deconvolution) which helps restore some of the detail lost to diffraction at higher apertures like f/14 or f/18.
- Support of new operating systems comes quickly
- Best 100mp LCC algorithm for use with tech cameras
- Fastest processing available (assuming decent GPU)
- Native support by Tangent control boards
- Wide range of suppliers of styles/presets (here are DT's Capture One Style Pack)

None of these apply to Phocus

Items not Mentioned:
There are a lot of items I left out because they are too subjective or not clear-cut-unique to the Phase kit. For example my feeling is the Leaf Look profiles for the IQ3 100mp are the best out-of-camera skintones you can get and comes directly from the Leaf DNA inherited by Phase One's purchase of Leaf years ago. I also feel that Capture One's processing pipeline is the best of any raw processor and in particular their color engine and color editing tools are the best found anywhere. However, this is subjective and only your own testing can tell you which you'll prefer. Note that Capture One will have a higher learning curve (more power, more tools = more time to learn them) but there are free tutorials on youtube, a book available, and lots of Capture One training classes.

Of course there are features that favor the Hassy
The Hassy does 4k video natively (the Phase can only do 1080p and only with an external recorder, at least for the time being) and has a focus called True Focus which can be especially helpful when the subject and camera are stationary and you're shooting wide open with a wider lens. Hassy users, and your local Hassy dealer can provide additional features unique to Hasselblad.

None of this matters
I've tried to give a good list in favor of Phase. You should (and are) seeking out the same in favor of Hassy. But none of that feedback really ultimately matters. Ultimately it comes down to which YOU prefer. A camera is much more personal then a set of features or capabilities or specs. It is a tool for a creative process; which one melds with you and your hand and your eye and your processes - that's the only thing that matters. So go play with both and see what you prefer. If you can't do so in your own city then, given the expense involved, fly to a city where you can. NYC is brutal this time of year, but we'd welcome you with a hot cup of coffee, a hot toddy, or a mulled hot wine and you could play with every camera made in this city. I'm sure this is true of cities closer to you (and probably cities that are warmer than here!).
 
Note: I am not a dealer or any industry connected sales, but a semi-professional user. I am shooting mostly business portraits and high resolution products for corporate clients as well as fashion stuff (I do also underwater, but this with a Nikon D4s in a Subal housing).

Coming from full frame DSLR (Nikon D4s and D-810) I have upgraded from a H5D-40 (CCD) to H5D-50c (CMOS) to H6D-100c (CMOS), the last step just a month ago. When choosing the system H or Phase in 2015 I have tried out both systems extensively, H5 and XF. That time the Phase system showed many more advantages, especially the better LCD-screen, faster X-sync (1/1600 vs 1/800 sec) and Capture One (I am a long time Nikon Capture One user); but nevertheless, I still decided for Hasselblad due to huge pricing differences between the 2 systems but also I didn't like the feeling of the XF in my hands (it felt too heavy and bulky; less the H5).

After gathering some H lenses (80mm, 28mm, 100, 120, 150) -some new and some second hand (which are widely available for reasonable prices) -one sticks to the same system normally....

Today, with the H6D-100c -despite the long list of advantages of the Phase system over the H which were shown here- most important features for me are equivalent or better with the H system, i.e. the new touch screen LCD with a high resolution and the even faster flash sync speed of 1/2000 sec. (I recently shot in bright sun a series of portraitures with my new 100mm lens at f/2.2 and between 1/1000 and 1/2000 sec with the Broncolor Move mobile power pack, and it just worked great).

From a neutral standpoint, I think both systems are pretty much on par. From MY personal standpoint I think the H6 is superior in aspects which are important to ME:

- True Focus (very helpful for portrait work given that both systems do only have one ridiculous focus point...compare that to a Nikon D5 with 135 movables...!)
- True Exposure (important for leaf shutter lenses when using available light)
- Flash sync all speeds up to 1/2000 sec
- wider lens range and probably (?) the better lenses (don't shoot me on this, this is just a guess...), but definitely more available on second hand market at reasonable prices
- The camera menu accessible by touch similar to an iPhone is phantastic. Sharpness control by double tap and due to the better resolution of the screen works absolutely fabulous (probably the same on the XF), but is miles ahead from the previous generations of H5, H4...
- Live View and Wifi integration work just perfect
- tethering works (shot today around 500 images tethered without interruption and hickups...). But power over USB 3.0 is still missing (is in the works though)
- Video Full HD and 4k, coupled with the high quality H lenses...great
- Phocus software gets better and better, still not as good as Capture One. But depending on ones workflow Phocus is ok and gives very good color renderings for H files. I am using both Capture One and Phocus (besides Photoshop, which in my case will never be replaceable completely by a Raw converter as Capture One is targeting...)
- the pricing differences are still in favor of the H system. IMO not that unimportant than people from Phase will tell...

Best is to test both systems yourself extensively and look for the features which are important for the personal kind of photography and shooting style. For me today, I would never ever change for sure, but waiting for the medium format backup and walking around camera, which is the mirrorless X1D, which comes from Hasselblad....
 

Chipcarterdc

New member
Although I ultimately chose the XF100, the one thing that gave me pause is the lack of a TrueFocus functionality. I've publicly and privately urged that Phase implement something similar: holding out hope, but have no idea if it's being considered or even possible with the current XF hardware.
 

DrakeJ

New member
Although I ultimately chose the XF100, the one thing that gave me pause is the lack of a TrueFocus functionality. I've publicly and privately urged that Phase implement something similar: holding out hope, but have no idea if it's being considered or even possible with the current XF hardware.
Same here. And the fact that Phocus is nowhere near Capture One. Still would like true focus on my XF, although the spot focus point in the XF and a good focus recompose technique gets me good results.
 

Chipcarterdc

New member
Agreed: I'd say good focus and recompose technique lets me nail focus on 85-90% of shots, but getting home from a shoot and seeing the 10-15% that are out of focus (especially with full length portraits) due to lack of a TrueFocus style function really is disappointing (and a few times, they have been some of the best images I've shot but for the missed focus).
 

DrakeJ

New member
Agreed: I'd say good focus and recompose technique lets me nail focus on 85-90% of shots, but getting home from a shoot and seeing the 10-15% that are out of focus (especially with full length portraits) due to lack of a TrueFocus style function really is disappointing (and a few times, they have been some of the best images I've shot but for the missed focus).
Sounds like we have the same experience. Let's hope they have good news for us next firmware update.
 

stngoldberg

Well-known member
I may have the best of both worlds...the H5X with true focus plus the great Hassey lenses and the Phase One back which is available and competitive with their IQ100c offering
Stanley
 

hcubell

Well-known member
Sounds like we have the same experience. Let's hope they have good news for us next firmware update.
Well, there is a small problem with adding True Focus to the XF. It's called a patent. Now, if it was available on the XF, it would have gone to the very top of the list above about the advantages of the XF over the H6100, but since it isn't available on the XF, it was listed as an afterthought of the advantages of the H6100. Don't listen to Phase dealers on this. Ask photographers who shoot fashion or portraits or weddings for a living about how well it works.
 

Chipcarterdc

New member
Being a lawyer (albeit not a patent lawyer), I very much doubt the TrueFocus functionality is patented or even patentable. You can't patent an idea. If you could, then no phone other than the iPhone could ever have a touch screen; no one but Minolta could ever make an autofocus lens; no one but Ford could ever make a consumer automobile; etc. (By "ever," of course, I mean "during the duration of the patent," which is a long time indeed). The reason the law does not allow you to patent an idea, I gather, is that otherwise it would stifle competition and the technology would never improve (or improve a lot more slowly), at least during the term of the patent.

Thus, while Hassy's *specific implementation of TrueFocus* is almost certainly patented, the *concept* of "set the focus point and have camera adjust the lens focus as needed to maintain that focus point notwithstanding subsequent vertical or horizontal movement" is an optics and engineering concept that can presumably be implemented in ways sufficiently different from Hassy's specific implementation as to not raise patent infringement concerns.

I could easily be proven wrong by an actual patent lawyer: I really haven't thought about patent law since I was in law school. (Or, even better, by someone from Phase explaining the specific reasons they haven't implemented a TrueFocus functionality, whether there is something that would prevent them doing so, and whether that something is Hassy's patent.)

Well, there is a small problem with adding True Focus to the XF. It's called a patent. Now, if it was available on the XF, it would have gone to the very top of the list above about the advantages of the XF over the H6100, but since it isn't available on the XF, it was listed as an afterthought of the advantages of the H6100. Don't listen to Phase dealers on this. Ask photographers who shoot fashion or portraits or weddings for a living about how well it works.
 
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I based my decision on which company I wanted to do business with in the long run. I chose the Phase even though it's heavy and expensive. I believe that the support I'll get from Phase and their dealer network (which they actively try to keep healthy) will be worth it in the long run. That and for my photography electronic shutter and high quality zooms are a boon.
 

hcubell

Well-known member
I based my decision on which company I wanted to do business with in the long run. I chose the Phase even though it's heavy and expensive. I believe that the support I'll get from Phase and their dealer network (which they actively try to keep healthy) will be worth it in the long run. That and for my photography electronic shutter and high quality zooms are a boon.
I think the OP was asking about the experiences of those who have used the H6D100 and can compare it to the XF100. Have you actually used the H6D100?
 
I think the OP was asking about the experiences of those who have used the H6D100 and can compare it to the XF100. Have you actually used the H6D100?
I have. My main point (which wasn't well articulated) was to look beyond spec sheets and figure out which company you want to do business with in the long term. IMO, every MF system can and sometimes does have issues and Internet forums for one off opinions aren't often useful and rather one should do business with a company and dealer that has their back. I know the OP is stinging from their Leica S experience (as am I), and so I figured reliability on a company was likely important.
 
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malmac

Member
I have an XF with an IQ180 - so of course I miss out on a fair few functions which you get with the IQ3 series (check what functions work with the IQ 100 series - as opposed to the IQ3 100 backs).

Adjusting ISO through the camera is not an option with the IQ1 series - it does show on the top screen what ISO has been selected via the back - but does not allow any control of the ISO from the XF camera - remember this is an IQ1 series - with the IQ3 series this is different I believe.
Also because of the touch screen methodology - you can't adjust exposure compensation without taking the camera away from your eye when in Av / Tv / P modes for example.
I have changed the third scroll button so I can change shooting modes without taking the camera from my eye - I guess you are getting the picture I like to optimally control the camera while looking through the viewfinder - rather than having to move it away from my eye.
Another example is that it does not confirm through the viewfinder if you are on manual focus or auto focus though with the ring adjustment on the lenses it is easy to confirm which you are in.

So I agree with others who say, try both cameras and see which one suits your style, it is very easy to miss things which end up being a pain to live with long term if you don't thoroughly investigate.

Happy Shopping.


Mal
 

justalexander

New member
Thanks for all the info and advice.

The reason I ask for peoples experience is because even testing a camera for a week may not reveal it's shortcomings if you don't use EVERY function in EVERY situation, so it's good to hear from people who have been using the system for a while.

A lot of experience is subjective and the number of posts does reflect the number of users, but hearing about other users experience helps me look out for features and foibles if I eventually get around to testing either.

Justin
 

dougpeterson

Workshop Member
The H-System has got an interval mode since the H2.
This was a mistake in my post. I can't seem to edit the post at the moment to correct this.

There are a few minor advantages to the XF implementation, but both are more than enough for most basic time lapse needs. For those with advanced needs the XF-IQ3 is also compatible with our Time Lapse Suite (the H6D is not).

Ditto with the built-in flash meter.
H body has a basic flash meter. The XF has a Flash Analysis Tool. Very different features.
 
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