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Hasselblad to be acquired by DJI

M

mjr

Guest
I can't help but think that the sky would be falling much quicker if the report had been that as an existing investor, DJI were pulling out rather than increasing their stake!

Ultimately I have less interest in history of a brand, I want a product I can make money with and that will pay for itself quickly. My criteria are that it will give me something in my images that I don't currently have and that I can buy it, the X1D is not a camera for me but it looks great and I am sure that it will produce some lovely images in the right hands, have fun all those who are receiving one.

Mat
 

hcubell

Well-known member
Some good points. Actually there was (and still is) quite a bit of concern over Phase. LuLa went straight to the source with the CEO of Phase in a video shortly after where Henrik tried to ease concerns, although most familiar with PE firms I think remained unconvinced (and are still concerned). I would be surprised if Kevin didn't take the same approach with Hasselblad, but for reasons we'll never know an interview with Perry wasn't possible. Kevin's article sounded like he was frustrated because it seemed to be pretty common knowledge (he stated multiple reliable sources) but they wouldn't talk about it or formally announce it... and recently Hasselblad's communications policies have come under fire from a lot of people. Brings to mind that overused term "transparency". Certainly Hasselbad/DJI have the right to do what they want, but if the cat's out of the bag maybe it's better to get a head of things?

But there is a difference. In Phases case they were pulling out owner equity for their own security as well as acquiring some financial resources which PE firms have access to that small companies really don't, including lower interest on debt etc. Phase was in a similar position, capital for R&D on the new 100mp sensor, and ramp up production on new products like the XF and IQ3 series of backs. But the new owners were just that, investors, not a "strategic" buyer, and the "owners" ... the ones that design and build the camera I believe still have a decent size stake in the company. They may be in a minority position, but they stand to lose a lot of money if the company isn't successful. I actually think if Phase had announced that DJI had acquired a majority position, the tone and concern in the article would have been pretty much the same.

In this case we have a company that's been bouncing between several investor/owners (none of which appear to be key people within hasselblad), and management teams for years. Over the past several years that combination seems to have made several missteps. Personally I think the investment groups behind hasselblad were as much to blame as the company for those decisions ... (I saw the same thing in a firm I sold and the "board" decided to change things around because they thought they had a better idea). But it appears now the company has fixed those issues, and now are just cash strapped to get their product out the door. But DJI may or may not be the best suitor for Hasselblad, they may be best suitor to the PE firm whose only motivation is getting some of their investment back (and has already shown their poor judgement in the past).

Both situations are troublesome, both seem a little precarious to the future of the respective companies, but that doesn't mean either will turn out negative. On the surface Hasselblad (as we know it or hope it to be) seems more tenuous because we really don't know what DJI has in mind. good news it seems to at least given them a chance to succeed (which is what I got out of Kevin's article)

And in the long run we may find that Phase's situation does turn out worse ... in a year we may be talking about how DJI came in in the knick of time to restore hasselblad to solid footing and right the ship, and we also could be talking about SilverFleet wanting a payday from their investment in Phase and Phase not having the value to provide it. One scary part of using a PE firm is they look for big returns, and if they don't see it coming they will walk away and leave a company high and dry to prevent loosing more money on them. I'm not sure what the ratio is now, but I've heard they are happy if 2/3rd's of their investments work out. Scary. We're almost 3 years into the Phase/Silverfleet deal and things seem to be going well, but most PE firms want out in 3 to 5 years.

Hopefully both companies thrive, and continue to push each other. It appears that small format MF may be coming of age, and I will admit Phase has maybe dropped the ball on this one. May not be intentional, as they've had to put so much R&D into the XF platform they may not have been able to tackle a mirrorless version platform.

It would be a sad day to see either one or both falter or fail.
Excellent points. Let me just add that, having been involved in many transactions over the years that are similar to what is happening with DJI and Hasselblad, it is very likely that there are legal reasons why the transaction has NOT been announced publicly. I fully expect that, once the deal is completed, there will be a formal announcement and Hasselblad will grant LOTS of interviews to talk about what a great move this is for both Hasselblad and DJI.
 

ErikKaffehr

Well-known member
Hi,

In an earlier interview Perry Oosting was very happy with DJI's original investment. At that time he felt that DJI was a very good investor.

I would guess the companies make investments in other companies for earnings, or for the personal pleasure for the owner. My understanding is that Contax 645 much happened because the owner of Kyocera wanted to make a famous camera system. Sigma makes cameras because the founder wanted Sigma to make cameras and his son, the present CEO, honours that wish.

DJI is not VC company, they are very successful makers of drones for both amateur and professional photography. So, it is a technology company excelling in development, manufacture and AI software, all needed to build a safe easy to fly drone.

It would not make sense for DJI to buy Hasselblad for the name. They could easily acquire the Rollei name for instance.

My guess is that they feel they can make Hasselblad a profitable company.

It has not been an easy task to keep the European camera industry wealthy. Hasselblad used to be profitable for most time. Leica has seen many rescue actions. Rolleiflex is dead.

Phase One does a good job, but they used to be an MFD back company and not a camera company. My understanding is that they have been forced into turning into a camera company and it seems they do a very god job about it.

Best regards
Erik

Some good points. Actually there was (and still is) quite a bit of concern over Phase. LuLa went straight to the source with the CEO of Phase in a video shortly after where Henrik tried to ease concerns, although most familiar with PE firms I think remained unconvinced (and are still concerned). I would be surprised if Kevin didn't take the same approach with Hasselblad, but for reasons we'll never know an interview with Perry wasn't possible. Kevin's article sounded like he was frustrated because it seemed to be pretty common knowledge (he stated multiple reliable sources) but they wouldn't talk about it or formally announce it... and recently Hasselblad's communications policies have come under fire from a lot of people. Brings to mind that overused term "transparency". Certainly Hasselbad/DJI have the right to do what they want, but if the cat's out of the bag maybe it's better to get a head of things?

But there is a difference. In Phases case they were pulling out owner equity for their own security as well as acquiring some financial resources which PE firms have access to that small companies really don't, including lower interest on debt etc. Phase was in a similar position, capital for R&D on the new 100mp sensor, and ramp up production on new products like the XF and IQ3 series of backs. But the new owners were just that, investors, not a "strategic" buyer, and the "owners" ... the ones that design and build the camera I believe still have a decent size stake in the company. They may be in a minority position, but they stand to lose a lot of money if the company isn't successful. I actually think if Phase had announced that DJI had acquired a majority position, the tone and concern in the article would have been pretty much the same.

In this case we have a company that's been bouncing between several investor/owners (none of which appear to be key people within hasselblad), and management teams for years. Over the past several years that combination seems to have made several missteps. Personally I think the investment groups behind hasselblad were as much to blame as the company for those decisions ... (I saw the same thing in a firm I sold and the "board" decided to change things around because they thought they had a better idea). But it appears now the company has fixed those issues, and now are just cash strapped to get their product out the door. But DJI may or may not be the best suitor for Hasselblad, they may be best suitor to the PE firm whose only motivation is getting some of their investment back (and has already shown their poor judgement in the past).

Both situations are troublesome, both seem a little precarious to the future of the respective companies, but that doesn't mean either will turn out negative. On the surface Hasselblad (as we know it or hope it to be) seems more tenuous because we really don't know what DJI has in mind. good news it seems to at least given them a chance to succeed (which is what I got out of Kevin's article)

And in the long run we may find that Phase's situation does turn out worse ... in a year we may be talking about how DJI came in in the knick of time to restore hasselblad to solid footing and right the ship, and we also could be talking about SilverFleet wanting a payday from their investment in Phase and Phase not having the value to provide it. One scary part of using a PE firm is they look for big returns, and if they don't see it coming they will walk away and leave a company high and dry to prevent loosing more money on them. I'm not sure what the ratio is now, but I've heard they are happy if 2/3rd's of their investments work out. Scary. We're almost 3 years into the Phase/Silverfleet deal and things seem to be going well, but most PE firms want out in 3 to 5 years.

Hopefully both companies thrive, and continue to push each other. It appears that small format MF may be coming of age, and I will admit Phase has maybe dropped the ball on this one. May not be intentional, as they've had to put so much R&D into the XF platform they may not have been able to tackle a mirrorless version platform.

It would be a sad day to see either one or both falter or fail.
 

Nick-T

New member
Excellent points. Let me just add that, having been involved in many transactions over the years that are similar to what is happening with DJI and Hasselblad, it is very likely that there are legal reasons why the transaction has NOT been announced publicly. I fully expect that, once the deal is completed, there will be a formal announcement and Hasselblad will grant LOTS of interviews to talk about what a great move this is for both Hasselblad and DJI.
This is what I believe to be the case.
 

Iktinos

Not Available
I believe that KR says "IS not the Hasselblad it used to be"... not "MIGHT not be the Hasselblad it used be" (at sometime in the future)... Therefore, despite of the good motive of the most reasonable and balanced of the posters, I think their attempt to excuse KR's "article" is based on diverging the subject... There is a clear "conclusion" that is claimed (backed up by silly reasoning) and therefore there is a motive behind it.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
What have I missed. I don't read KR articles or comments so have no idea its content but let's be clear he worked for Phase for years and probably still a investor after he left. So consider the source. As far as Hassy finding a good investor that's great news for them. This is business and you have to have money to operate so that's normal. As far as it being a Chinese company might prove to be very fruitful for them and please let's stop being bigots about it. This is a global world get over it. Money is money as long as it's a good fit for both that's all that counts.
 

hcubell

Well-known member
What have I missed. I don't read KR articles or comments so have no idea its content but let's be clear he worked for Phase for years and probably still a investor after he left. So consider the source. As far as Hassy finding a good investor that's great news for them. This is business and you have to have money to operate so that's normal. As far as it being a Chinese company might prove to be very fruitful for them and please let's stop being bigots about it. This is a global world get over it. Money is money as long as it's a good fit for both that's all that counts.
Thanks, Guy. It only took us 130 posts to reach the same conclusion. :ROTFL:
 

jerome_m

Member
There is something more to this story. According to this article: http://thenewcamera.com/hasselblad-is-now-owned-by-dji/ Hasselblad planned to sell about 3000 X1D (which was already ambitious, it is more than the number of cameras they or P1 sells per year). Apparently, they go 10 times the amount of pre-orders:

According to Hasselblad UK Manager they received 30,000 worldwide pre-orders expecting only 3,000. So, the X1D camera was playing a major role for the comeback of Hasselblad.
 

Christopher

Active member
Even if I wished it to be true for the industry i think these numbers are just wrong. We will have to see but my guess is more towards 6-9k, which still is impressing.
 

jerome_m

Member
Even if I wished it to be true for the industry i think these numbers are just wrong. We will have to see but my guess is more towards 6-9k, which still is impressing.
30K indeed appears to be very high, but even 6K-9K is a game changer. Hasselblad is not bankrupt, on the contrary. Hasselblad has found a new market and is selling many times the number of MF cameras they sold before.
 

ErikKaffehr

Well-known member
Hi,

I don't think they are selling. The X1D sales probably do not generate a positive cash flow, but can generate a significant cost, like ordering sensors.

To reap the benefit from the sales Hasselblad needs to ship.

The investment by DJI can be helpful in many ways. DJI can deliver the cash, but may also be able to deliver parts.

Best regards
Erik

30K indeed appears to be very high, but even 6K-9K is a game changer. Hasselblad is not bankrupt, on the contrary. Hasselblad has found a new market and is selling many times the number of MF cameras they sold before.
 

jerome_m

Member
Now let's throw in how many they can actually make per month for shipping. 100?
My understanding is that the X1D was delayed because Hasselblad needed to reorganise production to increase capacity. Common sense dictates that they would reorganise capacity to produce the amount of cameras that they can sell in a reasonable time, which is vastly more than 100 a month. This is also consistent with the new funding.

I don't quite understand how your post contributes on the subject. Would you care to explain?
 

Iktinos

Not Available
My understanding is, that there is a huge problem arising for a maker that enters a new market in imaging. It is very hard to judge or (scientifically) measure the market volume in a previously absent from the market category.

In the case of the X1D, but of the GFX too, the maker has to judge three parts:

1. To estimate how much cannibalization of the existing market will (inevitably) be caused due to the improvement in price.
2. To estimate what percentage of the higher end FF DSLR market will be attracted.
3. What pricing will be the optimum as to maximize the marketing potential.

The FF DSLR market's volume exceeds 200K units per month, therefore, it is reasonable to conclude that if the pricing is right, there is a small (but still significant as far as volume of unit numbers) percentage of FF DSLR users, that would be attracted as to upgrade to MF, as well as some, that would need to upgrade, but couldn't afford to do so up to now.

IMO, the only reliable information that one could use as to judge the market potential, is to look back on the film days and see what percentage of MF users balance was with respect to 35mm SLR users. Given that the price difference of MF was at those days to the range of 2-5x than using a (good) 35mm based SLR system, but the price difference with MF digital multiplied up to 10x and in some cases up to 20x, it is (again) reasonable to conclude that if the price difference returns back to the 2-4x region, the percentage of MF users can approach back to the volume it was during the film days.

Certainly, the 200K+ per month market volume of FF DSLRs out of Canon, Nikon, Sony, Pentax and Leica suggests that the MF market has a potential that could approach the 100K units annual volume as this would only be 4% out of the total volume of imaging products with large sensors (FF & larger). I guess the coming of the GFX by the end of next month will provide to the marketing much more (reliable) information on the MF market potential, but the fact that Fuji decided to decrease the entry price of the GFX by 20% (from 10K down to 8K), certainly suggests that the potential for higher volumes (up to several tens of thousands) is achievable.
 
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algrove

Well-known member
My understanding is that the X1D was delayed because Hasselblad needed to reorganise production to increase capacity. Common sense dictates that they would reorganise capacity to produce the amount of cameras that they can sell in a reasonable time, which is vastly more than 100 a month. This is also consistent with the new funding.

I don't quite understand how your post contributes on the subject. Would you care to explain?
Do you really believe the reorganization of production arguement for the delays? They had no money for securing inventory/working capital is the best explanation for the delays. DJI's infusion of more capital will not impact higher production immediately, it will take some time.

For a small $30M annual sales company, how many total units do you believe they already make per month? These units are supposed to be hand asembled and tested in Sweden which is not an automated process. Thus for now 100 additional units per month is a lot for them.

That's how my post contributes to this thread which I have every right to post by the way. Common sense not common talk. Let's discuss more facts and less understanding based on supposition? Example:Leica S production projections on its initial announcement was 1200 units per year and they had no cashflow issues like Hasselblad has had. And they are hand assembled in Germany just like the X1D is hand assembled. The Japanese generally have production processes that often eliminate the "hand made" slower process so Fuji will be a big player, perhaps.

So what is the total actual MF production/sales per year? Many suggest it is less than 10k units annually and many pros say way less than that. Sure that might increase a bit with the introduction of the mirrorless MF, but who will suffer most? Pentax? Probably. Then add in Fuji and it should increase, but not many fold.

Perhaps someone here can come up with a realistic number for the total number of MF cameras sold annually based on facts more than hearsay.
 
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glenerrolrd

Workshop Member
Now we are going to speculate on that?
Howard

Please ...almost everything in this thread is opinion ..including most of your posts. When you see an opinion that you don t agree with you call it “Speculation “ . Belittling others opinions isn t in the spirit of this forum.

The point Lou was trying to make was ..that HB is very small and is set up to hand make high end cameras . This is low volume ,exactly work done by skilled labor . If you have ever seen how they assemble Leica M bodies in Germany ...its small work stations ,organized into small groups (called manufacturing cells) . Leica was producing less than 50 M bodies a day when the M8 was introduced . It took them months to get to 1000 a month on the M8 and years to get to 1500 a month .

The S body by contrast was pegged at 100 month to start ..just as a frame of reference.

HB with 30 million in sales must be producing the H bodies in quantities closer to the S body . Just a quick reasonableness check .....assume sales value of $10k (wholesale) and you can see 100-200 per month is reasonable for a $30M company .

The point being made is that the challenges of ramping up manufacturing to achieve even the original 3000 units forecast is a important consideration in understanding HB.

Fuji by contrast have the people that know how to do this . They have years now of experience in introducing new products ,scaling production etc etc . They will approach the production of the GFX in quite a different way .

My background including doing projects with clients ..was exactly like the situation at HB . Nobody wants to hear my perspective ...I get it ....its depressing when we all want HB to be successful. I wish HB the very best in 2017 ..this is a critical product launch that will define the company and maybe the whole MF market .

Personally I don t want a mass produced product aimed at the high end of the DSLR market . I share the vision of the HB CEO .... a company focused on premium cameras ..with superior craftsmanship .
 
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