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Phase One Lens Questions...

MRH

New member
Phase One Lens Questions...

Hi, I’m new to the site - it’s been a long time since I really had to dive into a new system.

I currently shoot with an IQ260 mounted on a Hassy H body, and am looking at fully switching over to P1. The XF is my camera choice.

What I’m struggling with are the differences in lens quality between the silver ring, blue ring, and Mamiya AF lenses (and, are there different generations/quality levels of those?). I often shoot wide open, so that matters, but for those images I don’t need the same kind of quality that I might for what I shoot at f/11. The bokeh is more important. Right now, for reference, I do most of my work with my Hassy 100mm 2.2 either wide open, or around f/11.

I also use a 150mm for tight portraits, and was wondering if even an older AF lens (which are available in 2.8 - and I love fast optices) will meet my needs. These images don’t run large at all, and I often shoot them in the 15MP mode instead of the 60MP mode. Auto focus that works well is still essential for me.

For lenses, is there a real difference between used and certified refurbished, or am I better off saving 30-50% between the two and just purchasing used? That would seem reasonable to me.

Any thoughts or experience on where the best values are and the real-world differences both in the handling and the optics of these various lenses would be appreciated. Hassy trade in values have plummeted, and I’d like to keep my costs are far down as possible. Knowing more will help me make wise decisions.

Thank you in advance to anybody who can help with feedback and suggestions.

- Mark
 

aztwang

Member
Phase One Lens Questions...

Hi, I’m new to the site - it’s been a long time since I really had to dive into a new system.

I currently shoot with an IQ260 mounted on a Hassy H body, and am looking at fully switching over to P1. The XF is my camera choice.

What I’m struggling with are the differences in lens quality between the silver ring, blue ring, and Mamiya AF lenses (and, are there different generations/quality levels of those?). I often shoot wide open, so that matters, but for those images I don’t need the same kind of quality that I might for what I shoot at f/11. The bokeh is more important. Right now, for reference, I do most of my work with my Hassy 100mm 2.2 either wide open, or around f/11.

I also use a 150mm for tight portraits, and was wondering if even an older AF lens (which are available in 2.8 - and I love fast optices) will meet my needs. These images don’t run large at all, and I often shoot them in the 15MP mode instead of the 60MP mode. Auto focus that works well is still essential for me.

For lenses, is there a real difference between used and certified refurbished, or am I better off saving 30-50% between the two and just purchasing used? That would seem reasonable to me.

Any thoughts or experience on where the best values are and the real-world differences both in the handling and the optics of these various lenses would be appreciated. Hassy trade in values have plummeted, and I’d like to keep my costs are far down as possible. Knowing more will help me make wise decisions.

Thank you in advance to anybody who can help with feedback and suggestions.

- Mark
Mark,
To my knowledge which is not as strong as many here who have been shooting P1 for many years, Blue ring design lenses optically are the same as silver EXCEPT for the 35LS, 45LS and the 150LS which are new designs. The 110LS silver is a fine pice of glass, one of my favorites when shooting portraiture as well as the 150 3.5 LS silver. You can pick up a little speed with the new 150LS Blue which is a 2.8 lens but it is a beast. As far as older Mamiya I have never owned one.
You cant go wrong with new as you get a warranty and you'll sit in a chair more comfy as your wallet wont be so bulky afterwards :cry:. Buying used is a crap shoot. I bought my 110 used, had a low shutter count , barely used blah blah blah and 9 months later I send it in and spend 750 for a new leaf shutter but 3 other used lens's have been perfect....Roll the dice!
Good luck in your transition, you'll love the XF!
BTW... if my memory serves me right P1 may still be offering a free lens with the purchase of an XF. Not sure but worth looking into. Call the boys over at Capture Integration or send Steve Hendrix a private message here. Steve is the sales manager at Capture Integration..Their customer service is second to none!!

Don
 

Paul2660

Well-known member
On the IQ260, you also may find that you are OK with some of the older Mamiya glass, which is most cases are less bulky and not as heavy as the LS Schneiders.

Ones to consider:

45mm D, 210mm, 75-150mm and 300mm (white barrel). The 35mm D can be a crap shoot as some of them are better than others.

As previously pointed out, the main difference between the Blue ring and non Blue rings are that the blue rings have a etched metal focus ring on primes, and focus/zoom ring on the zooms. Schneider claims that the QC is better on the blue rings (not sure why the QC was not as good on the older versions?) Most of the Blue rings share the same optical formulas as their LS counterparts. The Blue rings may be a bit heavier also. The Blue rings also id by serial number with the XF (not a big deal for end users as most folks will only own 1 of a particular focal length, but nice for rental shops).

As for optical Quality. I have shot the following Blue rings:

35mm LS, 40-80 LS, both are amazingly sharp.

I have shot the following non blue rings, but LS

75-150mm LS, excellent, 45mmD surprisingly good, 80mm LS, excellent, 150LS F3.5 tack sharp, but mine has strange fringing towards the edges C1 can't fix, 28mm LS, weak all the way around, corners soft a bit of smearing at times and depending on the light angle terrible CA, again which C1 does a very poor job on (unlike LR). 240mm LS overall an amazing lens, period. Definitely benefited from the ES shutter option on the IQ3100.

My current carry are the 40-80 and 75-150 along with the 240LS, when I am not going far into the woods.

The older Mamiya 210 and 75-150 are both great values and will work very well with the XF/260. The 300mm I tried was very sharp, but I continuously had vibration issues which caused me not to get sharp focus across the frame. I tried this lens before the ES shutter option was out, and the ES option more than likely would have fixed my issues.

Paul Caldwell
 

algrove

Well-known member
Not owned any S-K lenses prior to my XF+100 purchase. I have all LS in blue ring as follows:
35
55
80
110
150
240

My favorite and sharp as anything is the 110. :thumbs: For landscape the 35:thumbs: and 55 are also very sharp. I use the 80 very little, but is it also sharp. The 150 and 240 are great for tele needs and both are sharp. I tend not to PP (pixel-peep), but do check images for dust spots at around 200%.

So my 2 favorites are the 35 and 110 and I have only used my kit for landscape so far. If you can feel confident stitching with the 55 then size and weight will be less of a burden than using the 35.
 

Paul2660

Well-known member
I totally overlooked the 55LS, not sure why as it's a no1 go to lens for me.

I was lucky enough to purchase a used non blue ring, that was hand picked for me by Steve Hendrix from Capture Integration. It's extremely sharp and has very little if any CA. Only issue I have is the AF is bit slow and noisy.

When I stitch, the 55LS is often the lens I use.

Paul Caldwell
 

DrakeJ

New member
I did a back to back test with the 150mm 3.5 LS and the 150mm 2.8D (without LS) about 3 weeks prior to the release of the new 150 2.8 LS.

If you don't need the LS I would opt for the 150 2.8D, it has faster autofocus which is really important for me doing portraits of people that are not used to stand in front of the camera. I found it to be a tad sharper than the 3.5 as well.

I considered calling my dealer after the release of the new 150mm 2.8LS, but in the end the weight is too much of an issue. I get that Phase One wants to come up with the best quality possible, but I want my back to be healthy a few more years.
 

ejpeiker

Member
Mark,
BTW... if my memory serves me right P1 may still be offering a free lens with the purchase of an XF. Not sure but worth looking into. Call the boys over at Capture Integration or send Steve Hendrix a private message here. Steve is the sales manager at Capture Integration..Their customer service is second to none!!

Don
You get a lens if you buy the XF and an IQ3 back, not just the XF alone. Presumably, since he already has an IQ260 he would be buying the body only which does not come with a free lens.

To the OP: As others have said, other than the 35, 45 and new 150, the optical formula is the same on the BR lenses but the build quality (and weight) is completely different. Phase one says that the QC is tighter on the BR lenses and there is less sample to sample variation. One other difference is that the XF body will recognize BR lenses by serial number where it only recognizes the older lenses by type. The main benefit of this is that it will remember individual lens trim settings on different BR lenses of the same type where it will only remember one setting for older lenses and apply that to any lens of the same type - this is generally not a problem for individual owners but more of an issue for rental operations or people who use multiple cameras and lenses of the same type.
 

GrahamWelland

Subscriber & Workshop Member
+1 on the 55LS as a great lens.

My XF100 landscape bag:

28 D (soft in corners but nice wide when I need it - used more with IQ150 vs IQ3 100)
35 LS
55 LS
75-150 D (mine is very sharp)
300 APO (my #3 copy is very sharp and IQ3 100 ES cures it's inherent ringing issue, as did a bean bag on top)

I do have 240 LS which needs a service. It would typically replace 300 APO, and then I'd add 2x converter too. Awesome lens.

I have considered the 40-80LS & 75-150LS but from a cost, size & weight perspective I've not bitten the bullet. I just can't personally justify them yet since my primes and 75-150 D are good enough for my purposes.

However, here's my take on other lenses I have but because of weight don't get used as much:

35 D - good silver ring copy by annihilated by 35 LS
45 D - sharp & versatile but edged out of the bag by 35 LS & 55 LS - was a good pairing with the 28 D & 80 LS
80 LS - great lens, I just don't use it vs 75-150 D
120 Macro - I have MF version but again sharp but I don't take it with me often
150/2.8 D - probably the sharpest after the 35 LS - again not in the bag because of the 75-150 D but this one pains me to not bring it along so sometimes it'll creep back into the bag
210 ULD - my copy still surprisingly ok but can't compete against 240 LS

and then a few of the C team converted for XF:

30 Arsat - has a look but killed on sharpness by modern lenses
50 shift - ok, but when I want movements I use Actus DB & technical lenses
80 / 1.9 - if you want MF Noctilux
 
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MRH

New member
This is all very helpful for me, thank you. My only real resistance to making the change has been giving up my (fast) 100 2.0, but for the way I work the 110 will be great for when I need sharp and depth of field, and I've ordered a 125mm 2.0 projections lens that will be modified for P1 for my artier short depth of field work. I'm planning on adding the 150 2.8 silver ring when I can.

I don't much work that requires me to be at less than about 100mm, but when I do how would an old Mamiya lens or two work for images that won't be much more than full page? It looks like the autofocus is compatible, and they are very inexpensive. Any experience there would be appreciated.

Thank you, again, to those who have already responded.
 

Bill Caulfeild-Browne

Well-known member
OK, here's my two cents worth which I hope will be helpful. I have the following -

28 mm Mamiya. It is "OK" if you really have to have that much wide angle. It needs the extra corner sharpening you can apply in C1.The weakest lens in my line-up and I don't use it very often - I'd rather see if I can use the 35 mm and step back a bit..

35 SK BR - probably the sharpest lens I own. Truly outstanding. (With 100 mpx you can get a 45 mm equivalent FOV with cropping - and the result is better than the older 45 I used to own.)

55 LS - my standard lens for carrying around. Very sharp, very easy to hand-hold. If I could have only one lens, this is the one. I don't think a BR version could be optically better.

80 LS - again, very sharp, I use it a lot.

150 SK BR f3.5 - there are varying opinions as to whether this is as sharp as the new BR f2.8. Mine is excellent though I've never compared it to the latter. I do not get the fringing some have reported. It is not much heavier than the 55 mm and is easy to hand-hold. I often hike with just it and the 55 mm. (I used to have the Mamiya non-LS version, which I wish I hadn't sold now that the XF has ES - I only did so to get the vibration-free LS shutter of the 150 BR. It was just as sharp as the f3.5LS, if not better.)

240 LS - again, very sharp indeed and not as hard to hand-hold as you might think from its weight. I use it for wildlife where a tripod is impractical.

40-80 LS - too darn heavy! But it is very sharp and convenient if you need to avoid lens changing (as in a helicopter for example). At 55 mm or 80 mm it is nearly as sharp as my standard lenses above. Of course, it's pretty slow. Not easy to hand hold IMHO.

I acquired the 2x converter recently but haven't used it much yet. I wish it would allow autofocus!

Because I'm a gear slut I'd love to have the new 150 mm f2.8 BR - but I really don't need it. Do I?
 

GrahamWelland

Subscriber & Workshop Member
For lenses, is there a real difference between used and certified refurbished, or am I better off saving 30-50% between the two and just purchasing used? That would seem reasonable to me.

Any thoughts or experience on where the best values are and the real-world differences both in the handling and the optics of these various lenses would be appreciated. Hassy trade in values have plummeted, and I’d like to keep my costs are far down as possible. Knowing more will help me make wise decisions.

Thank you in advance to anybody who can help with feedback and suggestions.

- Mark
With respect to used vs refurbished, my own preference has been to buy refurbished or open-box from a trusted dealer such as CI or DT. These folks will stand behind a lens if there is any issue. I consider refurbished in some ways better than new since they've gone through more QA than a virgin out of the box lens. I will also buy used but only from individuals that I've dealt with before and trust (actually for Phase One / Mamiya lenses it's been all three moderators on this forum!).

As regards handling, the biggest factor I've found is that the new BR lenses are without exception extremely well made but also solid and quite frankly they're heavy. That said, I don't begrudge the weight of my 35 BR given the sheer performance of it.
 
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