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Yair and other Creo users - flatbed scanners...vs Imacon.

ptomsu

Workshop Member
I alway scan to 3F and highest resolution. Do the rest later, which always takes time. SO the pure scanning process is fast and allows me to store RAW data. From which I always can get new versions for whatever my needs are.

This is real flexibility.
 

Lars

Active member
Maybe. ;)

Do you have to make a preview scan first, to then crop?
It's a drum scanner, scan area is 12x12", position of a wetmounted 8x10" film is of course not precise, so yes unless I want excessive margins I need to preview and position my crop.

Preview time is only about 3% of scan time so it's not really a big problem.
 

fotografz

Well-known member
Yes! You certainly can - hit the 3F button in the top right hand corner, and then look at the options.

David
You mean top left hand corner, right? (at least in my Flexcolor scan window).

Well, how easy is that? Auto scans a 6X6 3F file in a minute ... ready in the browser window for any batch adjustments ... then transfer selects to an 16 bit, 371.6 meg, 22.5" X 22.5" tiff @ 360 dpi in in 10 seconds. 10 seconds.

David, tell the Hasselblad folks to consider adding DNG to the "Save" choices" along with Tiff and Jpg. Art Directors and retouchers don't have Flexcolor.

I'm ordering the Batch feeder on Monday. Thanks David.

-Marc

P.S. this is the film frame from a commercial shoot that I practiced on. :)
 

Bruno

Member
I'm in the way to buy a new scanner and read this thread, amazing!

Do You think, the Creo offers in 35mm any advantages over the X5? the Hassy scanners seems to be great solution for an advance aficionado!
 

Egor

Member
I like my Heidelberg Tango drum for trannies, but the learning curve is steep, I warn. A used drum system can be had for under $10k.
I like the Imacon/Hasselblad CCD scanners for negs, though if they are scratched, dusty...etc., you will want to use the drum for oil mount.
As many have stated previously, there is no one single "magic bullet", it really depends on your originals, quantity, and final use.
I made the comparison test for my museum clients a few years back. The Nikon Coolscan and Heidelberg Topaz are CCD scanners. The Topaz is a very high-end flatbed scanner similar to the results from the X5 or other Imacon type CCD scanners. The Tango is the PMT drum, of course, and there is no substitute for DMax and a PMT for certain things.
 

jars121

Member
I've got a Heidelberg Chromagraph drum scanner, as well as Flextight CCD 'virtual drum' scanner. I agree with Egor above; unless you're committed to hundreds of hours of learning with the drum scanner, you should choose the Flextight. The Flextight range is still supported, and has modern software running on modern OS platforms. On the other hand, the Heidelberg software was written in the mid '90s and (at least in my case) runs on a dedicated OS9 computer. If I had the time, I'd love to master the drum scanner, but that's simply not the case. I think I will look to move it on in the near future, and perhaps upgrade to a bigger Flextight.
 

Stuart Richardson

Active member
I would also play a bit of devil's advocate here too...scanners are dead. They are not going anywhere. As stated above, many of them are no longer running or barely running on modern operating systems. The Hasselblad scanner line is all but dead. I bought my X5 back in 2009, and I don´t think they have updated the software other than to make it compatible for Mountain Lion (and I am very grateful for that!). They really have not done much to change the software or interface in the 8+ years I have been using it. They have continually resisted incorporating the software into Phocus. Given the direction they are going with the Lunar and the Stellar, the writing is really on the wall. They are probably just selling old stock at this point anyway...maybe not, but I still don't think you will be able to buy a new Hasselblad scanner in 5 years, let alone 10.
What you can get, however, is a very high resolution camera and a macro lens. Of course, the scanners still have many advantages, but using a high resolution camera and a good lens, you solve a lot of problems -- you can capture any size or format, you are always getting state of the art image processing software, and if you get fancy, you can have almost unlimited quality if you have a good setup and employ stitching.
I still use the X5 for most jobs, as it works better for volume work and smaller formats, but for 8x10 film or inflexible film (glass plates etc), I have taken to using my Leica S2 with the 120mm macro lens. I have a high quality lightbox, and I have taken a clean glass plate that I place a bit above the lightbox (to increase the diffusion, and to eliminate any influence of scratches on the soft acrylic of the light box). I just put it on top of two small boxes. Then I simply photograph the negatives using the S2 and invert them in photoshop. This method is fiddly and slow compared to the X5, but the results can be excellent, and of course the older high resolution flatbeds and drum scanners are also rather slow and difficult to set up. Another upside is that instead of spending thousands of dollars on a single purpose tool, you will wind up with a good scanner, AND a great camera.
I run a lab, so the speed and ease of use advantages of the X5 still overwhelm the utility of this technique, but if I was just scanning for myself, I am not sure I would be willing to pay so much for the X5...I would almost certainly get a smaller dedicated film scanner and use a high resolution camera (MFD, D800, what have you...) to supplement. Unless by some miracle, someone starts making modern, high quality scanners, this method is only going to increase in quality and practicality.
 

dougpeterson

Workshop Member
We have built an entire niche industry around cultural heritage rapid film scanning based on high-res digital backs and high quality macro lenses. Planarity (making sure the sensor and film are parallel) and film flatness are both challenges, and should not be underestimated. But once you overcome those issues, and assuming you're using sufficient quality capture equipment the results rival very good flatbed film scanners with the added benefit of capturing raw files adjustable in a variety of modern software and capturing several dozen times faster (assuming you're scanning many pieces of similar size). Durability and maintenance is also much less of a concern, now and especially in the future. One other obvious benefit being that if you're not using the film-scanner full-time you can take the digital back or camera being used and go take pictures with it, which is hard to do with a flatbed scanner :).

This approach is worth considering for you whether it's a prosumer Nikon, a homebuilt stand, and a decent nikon macro, or an 80mp digital back on a dedicated camera bench like our rcam and a full industrial grade copy stand.
 
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jars121

Member
We have built an entire niche industry around cultural heritage rapid film scanning based on high-res digital backs and high quality macro lenses. Planarity (making sure the sensor and film are parallel) and film flatness are both challenges, and should not be underestimated. But once you overcome those issues, and assuming you're using sufficient quality capture equipment the results rival very good flatbed film scanners with the added benefit of capturing raw files adjustable in a variety of modern software and capturing several dozen times faster (assuming you're scanning many pieces of similar size). Durability and maintenance is also much less of a concern, now and especially in the future. One other obvious benefit being that if you're not using the film-scanner full-time you can take the digital back or camera being used and go take pictures with it, which is hard to do with a flatbed scanner :).

This approach is worth considering for you whether it's a prosumer Nikon, a homebuilt stand, and a decent nikon macro, or an 80mp digital back on a dedicated camera bench like our rcam and a full industrial grade copy stand.
Hard, but not impossible :ROTFL:

 
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