Hy6 Brand and Feature Differences

[PSon]

With the anticipation of the Hy6 hitting the market, their are features differences among the Hy6 brands that may be important to your need. I would like this thread to consist the differences in features among the different Hy6. If anyone has some information please post it here.

I spoke to Steve Hendrix and brought up the issue of multi-shot back and how the new modern medium format SLR camera will have the feature to lock up the mirror to do 4 and 16 shots mode with the Sinar and Hasselblad MS backs. Traditionally, folks use the MS back on their Alpa or large format system where the mirror is not an issue. However, I want to use the MS back on my Hy6 camera. I hope this topic is brought up to Sinar attention. The older medium format SLR camera systems do not allow this feature.

Ok here is what I know this time in term of feature between the Hy6:
1. Leaf Hy6 will only need one battery in the fast action grip while Sinar Hy6 will require two batteries, one in the fast action grip and the other in the digital back.

2. Leaf Hy6 is going to the close system with their backs

3. Sinar Hy6 will remain an open system for different backs and different camera with their back.

BTW, if you do not know who Steve Hendrix is and planing to get the Hy6 you should consider talking to him. He is based in Atlanta.

 

[David K]

It would be nice if we could get Steve to participate over here. He's well informed and a straight shooter. I'd love to know what the upgrade path will be for the different systems, and in my case from the 75S to the Hy6.

 

[Steve Hendrix]

With the anticipation of the Hy6 hitting the market, their are features differences among the Hy6 brands that may be important to your need. I would like this thread to consist the differences in features among the different Hy6. If anyone has some information please post it here.

I spoke to Steve Hendrix and brought up the issue of multi-shot back and how the new modern medium format SLR camera will have the feature to lock up the mirror to do 4 and 16 shots mode with the Sinar and Hasselblad MS backs. Traditionally, folks use the MS back on their Alpa or large format system where the mirror is not an issue. However, I want to use the MS back on my Hy6 camera. I hope this topic is brought up to Sinar attention. The older medium format SLR camera systems do not allow this feature.

Ok here is what I know this time in term of feature between the Hy6:
1. Leaf Hy6 will only need one battery in the fast action grip while Sinar Hy6 will require two batteries, one in the fast action grip and the other in the digital back.

2. Leaf Hy6 is going to the close system with their backs

3. Sinar Hy6 will remain an open system for different backs and different camera with their back.

BTW, if you do not know who Steve Hendrix is and planing to get the Hy6 you should consider talking to him. He is based in Atlanta.

Hi everyone. Thank you to Son for inviting me here.

Even though the Hy6 and AFi are essentially the same camera, the integration with the respective digital backs, and each companies own individual development strengths and weaknesses will guarantee differences between the systems. For example, Sinar having to use 2 batteries, and Leaf one is a plus for Leaf. However, that one battery likely won't last very long. Plus if you only have the one battery and you rotate the Aptus, you will lose power. The Sinar will rotate without the loss of power. Ok, now we're even.

Both companies have indicated they will develop a revolving adapter so the back doesn't have to be removed to rotate. However, Sinar seems ahead on this, historically having more experience and machinery to perform the task. It's expected they will have that ready perhaps by February. We don't expect the Leaf version to be ready for quite a while longer and in fact could be quite difficult for them to produce given the hard mount approach they take with camera interfaces.

There will be more and more of these strengths/weaknesses as these products develop that differentiate them.

We have not yet received our Hy6 or AFi demo units, but I am shooting with an AFi7 this week (with the 80mm AFD).

Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php

 

[Jack]

Hi Steve, and WELCOME! Look forward to hearing your impressions as this gear evolves.

 

[PSon]

hi Steve, thanks for coming by and straightened out the facts.
Son

 

[Steve Hendrix]

Interesting week spent with the AFi camera. I think when this camera is compared to the H3DII, the preference will come down to what type of camera you like to shoot with. I feel that the AFi/Hy6 will appeal more to the RZ/Hassy V crowd (because it feels like a modern AF hybrid of those cameras). It's quite a different experience shooting with the AFi and then switching to the H3D.

The AFi/Hy6 feels like a Hasselblad 503 on steroids.

The H3DII feels like a Canon on steroids.

That doesn't mean the AFi/Hy6 is a cut above the H3DII. It just feels more medium format-ish, where the H3DII feels more DLSR-ish. The results from both are amazing and I'm looking forward to seeing how each of the 3 companies continues to develop the products through firmware, etc.

I'm waiting on some feedback from some of the shooters to see what kind of "mojo" those Schneider AFD lenses produce.

Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php

 

[fotografz]

Irakly and I have an appointment with Bob Bresson, Leaf reagional manager tomorrow afternoon at 1:30.

In studio demo. Some shooting, and we get the files on a hard drive. Rats, not sure we can get a model that fast.

Will share impressions afterwards.

 

[Graham Mitchell]

Steve, please keep us informed.

 

[fotografz]

Initial Leaf AFi demo impressions.

Glad I did this. AFi-7 is off the shopping list for now. Shot in studio with Profoto strobes
... then did it with the H3D/39 without changing anything. No discernible difference in image quality ... with my personal preference going to the H3D for tonal control and more accurate color ... when both processed in Lightroom. I am familiar with both backs as I own a Leaf Aptus 75s. Generally, the AFi was slightly more clinical feeling ... but I feel that way about Phase One captures also ... so it's just subjective preference.

Agree with Steve's assessment of operating and handling differences ... Hassey more DSLR like ... Hy6 is more Rollei & V camera like ... but the AFi was surprisingly light and quite adaptable to mobility... which is where it parts company with the RZ and some Rollei cameras IMO.

The AFi can run off the grip battery alone, or you can add the clip-on battery to the Aptus back for longer shooting times.

Leaf AFi body and 33 meg Aptus 75s back is $36,000. with no lens and no prism finder.
Lenses are all over $5000. each and the 60-140 zoom is $7,000. The exception is the 80/2.8 @ $3,100.

For $36,000. I can get a H3D-II 39 Multi-shot with prism and lens.

Wonder how Sinar Hy6 differs?

 

[Graham Mitchell]

One thing we know about the Sinar offer is that it includes a 5yr warranty with a 24 hour hot swap. Not sure about prices. I hope they are aggressive compared to the prices mentioned above.

 

[Steve Hendrix]

One thing we know about the Sinar offer is that it includes a 5yr warranty with a 24 hour hot swap. Not sure about prices. I hope they are aggressive compared to the prices mentioned above.

The Sinar Hy6/75LV bundle is $32,500, and I believe it includes the 80mm AFD lens, but this is unconfirmed.

Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php

 

[David K]

Very glad to see Steve here... he's a great guy and a source of good, solid, factual information. I'm interested to see the upgrade path for 75S users which to the best of my knowledge hasn't been announced yet.

 

[fotografz]

The Leaf regional rep confirms that the upgrade path has not been determined, and there is no information on that at this time.

Pat Bono, Service Manager of Leaf America, made it clear to me that the AFi is a "whole different animal" and using my current 75s will not be possible.

Does that count as good, solid, factual information?

While the sensor is the same as the 75s, if you look at the AFi back it is a different design made to mesh with the Hy6 body functionally and cosmetically. So, it appears any upgrade will probably involve accepting an Aptus back in trade for a AFi set.

While Leaf may announce the upgrade path, it will be interesting to see how long it'll be before they implement it. The upgrade from my 75 to a 75s took almost a year ... and that wasn't a "whole different animal". It may be better to sell a Aptus 75s now while it's still new.

 

[mark1958]

Marc.. do you know if the sensor and back are unchanged? Is the only difference the way the back mounts to the camera?

The Leaf regional rep confirms that the upgrade path has not been determined, and there is no information on that at this time.

Pat Bono, Service Manager of Leaf America, made it clear to me that the AFi is a "whole different animal" and using my current 75s will not be possible.

Does that count as good, solid, factual information?

While the sensor is the same as the 75s, if you look at the AFi back it is a different design made to mesh with the Hy6 body functionally and cosmetically. So, it appears any upgrade will probably involve accepting an Aptus back in trade for a AFi set.

While Leaf may announce the upgrade path, it will be interesting to see how long it'll be before they implement it. The upgrade from my 75 to a 75s took almost a year ... and that wasn't a "whole different animal". It may be better to sell a Aptus 75s now while it's still new.

 

[irakly]

marc and i played with leaf afi yesterday thanks to the leaf regional rep who brought it to the studio.
the back is the same except it has a proprietary afi mount. it is a rotating back, and this feature is very elegantly implemented.
the lens, though (2.8/80 xenotar af that is), did not impress me at all. old 6008 lenses feel much more solid. the rep lied that new lenses have higher tolerances than the manual focus ones. yeah, right
if i were to buy the camera now, i would not bother to shell out three grand for the lens and use my old planar. btw, the camera is sold without the lens: just a body, a vertical viewfinder and the back of choice.

 

[fotografz]

"Marc.. do you know if the sensor and back are unchanged? Is the only difference the way the back mounts to the camera?"`

No Mark, not only is the mount different (4 pin type with data bus contacts ) which requires removal to rotate ... the outer shell is a more "chiseled" redesign to match the AFi body configuration. It's NOT the same as the photos used in pre-launch promotions which showed an Aptus back. The designation badging on the new Leaf back that replaces the Aptus 75s is AFi-7.

The question that is yet to be answered is whether an existing Aptus back can be altered to fit, or does the new back configuration play some role in the functional interface ... and whether they will bother to alter an Aptus back as opposed to just replacing it altogether.

Time will tell.

Don't get me wrong here, the camera is great, and all the Hy6s versions should be of special interest to Rollei owners with a collection of lenses.

I was VERY interested in this camera to replace my aging Mamiya RZ system on which I currently use an Aptus 75s. I do not see it as a replacement for my H3Ds

My stumbling block is simply the price ... ( and like Irakly, I wasn't crazy about the lens)
Since I don't have Rollei lenses, and wouldn't want an AFi without AF lenses anyway ( except a Macro maybe), the basic system price with prism finder and 3 lenses would add up to well in excess of $50,000.

The Sinar version is also a possibility, and the 5 year warranty is a VERY wise idea ( forgot to ask what the Leaf warranty was because I was in shock at the prices). My concern about Sinar is that I do not know their re-seller network nor service system in the US ... and know nothing about their software ... plus, it seems that their backs are due for a re-design with a larger LCD like Hasselblad just implimented ( the LCD on the Leaf backs is not an issue since it's as big as it can ever get ).

 

[PSon]

My favorite Rollei lens are: 1. Carl Zeiss Planar HFT 2.0/110 PQ and 2. Schneider Apo-Symmar HFT 4.0/90 PQS. I am waiting for Rollie new AF wide angle lens improvement and perhaps the 180 mm with closer focusing distance feature. In the meantime, I am happy with the Zeiss Planar HFT 2.0/110 PQ, Distagon FLE HFT 4.0/50 PQ and the Schneider Xenotar 2.8/80 PQS as my AF lens for now.

 

[PeterA]

Well I have been away doing some business so I haven't had the chance to play with the Hy6 - but check out the design of that thing - I mean from a pure sexy beast camera point of view this makes the H series body 'look' so passe...no contest the Hy6 is a work of beauty itself..

but weight has a lot to do with real aesthetics - if the weight isnt right..doesnt matter how pretty it looks.
How does it feel in the hand versus H series?

oh I did look at a few Rollei lenses a few weeks ago...they are of variable quality I reckon..the 180 PQ felt like junk in my hands compared to the H series 150...I mean whats up with that? The Zeiss felt plasticky and cheap by comparison..hey maybe teh lens is great as far as making shots..who knows..but didnt feel liek it..or maybe I was trying a bad example..??

 

[fotografz]

Peter, the Hy6 handles nicely in the hand and is lighter weight than I recall the Rollie's being. We were wondering what it was made of.

Personally, I still prefer both the look, feel, and operational handling of the H camera ... but to be fair I've been using a H for a time now and wielding it on the job is second nature.

Both Irakly and I had the same reaction as you did to the Schneider AF lens. That for $5,000.+ a pop? I did some controlled studio shots with the 80/2.8 Schneider AF and it didn't show me anything earth shattering in terms of image quality.

I still would like to get my hands on the Sinar iteration ... and goof around with their software. I think it's a good time to look but not leap. Sinar HAS to be close to updating their backs.

 

[PeterA]

Marc - I am glad you aired your suspicions...because the Sinar to my way of thinking has ONE GREAT ADVANTAGE over Leaf or Phase One or Imacon..

You can BUY different adaptors for the Sinar back to go on H series/V series/and any other make you want..they are expensive but they work..so the Sinar back is not redundant across various body /lens options..

Same digi chip ...as Leaf and images are as good if not better but software is cluncky..

if teh Hy6 version of teh back is the same..ell to me hy6 or no it is enough to make me switch from leaf to Sinar ..if for not other reson than I dont have to limit myself to one lens system..

I can mix and match according to lens mount..and jut switch adaptor plates on Sinar to make it work..on H or V or Alpa or maybe even Hy6..thats a big deal for me..

and if they are about to relese one with a bigger rear scren ..or whatever..even better..