Leica S2 side-by-side with D3x and 645AFD

[dfarkas]

I just updated my blog with photos and measurements from yesterday when I had an S2 mockup in our store.

David Farkas Photography Blog

I have side-by-side photos of the S2 and Nikon D3x, S2 and Mamiya 645 AFD, as well as some comparisons of S lenses to Hasselblad HC lenses.

I hope this settles some of the confusion on the size of the S2.

David

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Your also not using the latest D lenses made by Mamiya which are much different than the old 80mm for example.

 

[bradhusick]

What's really striking to me is the side by side of the back of the D3X and the S2. The D3X has TWENTY visible controls, the S2 has SIX. Go Leica!

 

[woodyspedden]

I just updated my blog with photos and measurements from yesterday when I had an S2 mockup in our store.

David Farkas Photography Blog

I have side-by-side photos of the S2 and Nikon D3x, S2 and Mamiya 645 AFD, as well as some comparisons of S lenses to Hasselblad HC lenses.

I hope this settles some of the confusion on the size of the S2.

David

David

thanks for going to the trouble to help us all understand more about the size of the S2 and some of its lenses, particularly compared to what most of us have been using (i.e. Hassy HC and Mamiya/Phase).

I was very taken by how much smaller the S2 is compared to the D2X. Not that it is a comparable market one being MFDB and the other a conventional 24x36mm size, but it is useful to see the difference since many if not most of us are familiar with Nikon D3 series bodies.

So again, thanks for taking the time and effort to educate us. It is appreciated. Now please find a source of unlimited funding so I can actually get one LOL

Woody

 

[dfarkas]

What's really striking to me is the side by side of the back of the D3X and the S2. The D3X has TWENTY visible controls, the S2 has SIX. Go Leica!

In all fairness Brad, Leica will be adding an AF-ON/AF-Lock button on the back. So, seven total.

David

 

[LJL]

....and, there is still the aux battery to tack onto the bottom, which will make the body a bit taller. BTW, has anybody seen one of those yet?

LJ

 

[PeterA]

Thanks David for an interesting side by side comparison. I have (potentially) much more interest in the S2 system - than any further expansion of the megapixel warfare route by MFD manufacturers. In fact I will probably sell a higher megapoixel back and buy a used Sinar 54H multishot.

looking forward to the relaease an dreal world testing by others before deciding.

pete

 

[ddk]

Any update on delivery or pricing yet?

 

[beamon]

Have a heart, David. We haven't yet completed my deal for the M8.2 and now you post this on the heels of our phone conversation.

Yes, I could write the check for the S2 and a lens or two at the tentative price you mentioned, but only if you will take me in as a house guest. My wife would definitely give birth to a pig as that is all she would think that I could sire.

 

[ptomsu]

Great and very useful comparison David!

I am very much interested in the S System by its technical background, which looks really useful and just the right mix for high end MF photography. What I am still scared is the future of Leica's support and follow up - in general and also and most importantly for the professional S System.

The clean outline of the body and its controls is really appealing, although the D3X is the worst example of controls on a DLR body, e.g. the Canon 1DsMK3 is much better in this respect in my opinion, but also not as clean as the S2!

I could see a S2 plus 3 or 4 lenses as exactly what I need for my landscape work. And if this system holds up to my expectations and they also bring some nice tele zoom in the future, it could become my only DSLR system - just dreaming

We will know more in autumn 2009.

 

[arashm]

but Autumn of 2009 is so so far away
J/K
David thank you for posting these.
The HC 120 Mac as good as it is... is a bit of a beast.
am

 

[Paratom]

Interesting, I have to say that I really prefer having manual switches and buttons with direct access instead having to browse through menus.
I find the user interface of the D3(x)easiy to understand and very quick.
Maybe it is not as pretty.

I have allways liked a button for iso, and one for metering, I like the AF-activation button separated from the shutter-release all the time, I like quick acces to choose where the camera focuses, etc. etc.

I think we must not forget than the M8 - which simplicity I also like a lot - doesnt have AF and doesnt have various metering systems, and does have manuel aparture control, and doesnt need any functions like mirror up etc etc.
So in this case I think it works ok without many buttons.
The simplicity is cause more by not having that many functions IMO, not that much depending on the number of buttons.

But the S2 will have many of those functions. Even if there is quick acces through menue buttons you have to remember which button will do what-or go through the display.

I find the S2 a great concept, I like simplicity, but I hope they will not "overdo" this aspect.
The other thing is I am just still afraid that the S2 doesnt make sense for Leica in a financial way. I just dont see the market big enough plus the price battle going on plus Leica has to develop all from scratch.
I just hope for them it turns out to work anyways.

 

[Lars]

I'd agree with t_streng re buttons. Leica seems to prioritize form over function in this design.

As a parallel, it's no coincidence an F1 race car steering wheel doesn't have a touch screen. The interface has been honed over time to be what a pro tool needs to be. You learn and then it becomes second nature, you never have to look at the controls. The same can be said for D3 (or 1D) controls.

Another thought: Leica seems to have worked hard to make the body small (seems almost exactly like a D700). However with huge and heavy lenses the compact slick body is a bit of a wasted effort. You can almost tell that the camera designers and lens designers received different instructions - the body has to feel like a DSLR (which in itself is a design compromise), whereas the lens designs must have no compromises, leading to large and heavy glass.

 

[Dale Allyn]

Sorry to put too fine a point on it, but it's sort of like the Apple mouse. Simplicity is great, but specific "go to" tools are needed as well. (I love Macs, am a APPL stockholder, but HATE the Apple mouse – including all recent iterations.) For me, the D3(x) offers a bit too much WRT surface-level controls, but the S-2 may end up being a bit too simple if one has to scroll through menus too often.

I'm at a loss as to why the manufacturers don't include more than one or two user-definable buttons. Some love buttons, some love menus... well, user-definable buttons is nothing more than a menu controlled button. It's a a firmware directive, not rocket science. The "ancient" Mamiya AFD II has like a billion custom functions that the user sets. I would think that Nikon, Canon and Leica could learn a bit and give us (the user) a bit of control.

Yeah, like our views matter. ( ) Note the MLU button on my Canons. (Sorry. It's late and I needed a Canon MLU button rant and this is the closest I could find.)

Thanks, David, for this post.

 

[carstenw]

The S2 has at least 4 user-programmable buttons, the 4 button around the screen. If you hold them instead of just clicking them, you get the custom function. The AF-hold button may also be programmable for other functions, I don't know yet.

 

[jonoslack]

Well, whether it's any good or not is one thing, but I think it looks wonderful, and like an ergonomic dream. Of course, the way things 'look' and the way they 'are' is not the same thing at all.

In comparison the D3x looks like it was designed by a group of committees each with different axes to grind.

 

[Graham Mitchell]

It looked great right from the first announcement. I don't think anyone has anything bad to say about this new platform yet, except for the price

 

[Paratom]

I wonder if you asked a D3 user if he could get buttons "deleted" from his body which ones and how many he would choose.
The S2 looks prettier - no question here.
HOwever most important for me is feel and the product to be intuitive. (I am not saying the S2 wont be intuitive)
Sometimes you come into a kitchen and you know where to find things without having been there. And the you come to other kitches and you are just searching and searching.
I am not such a big fan of too many programmable buttons because I can hardly remember which button would be for which function. So I rather have deducated buttons and only 1 or 2 programmable ones.
But maybe I can join the "pimp up my S2" program

 

[georgl]

We must not forget that we are getting used to things, even to disadvantages or design-curiosities - both, Leica and Nikon-users.

When I finally decided to invest into photography again 13 years ago and buy a "proper" camera (instead of my Pentax) I considered Canon, Nikon (F5), Contax AX and Leica R8.
It was the first time I handled another SLR for decades, I wasn't used to any of the systems and I was shocked by the buttons, complexity of the japanese brands while the R8 felt organic, designed from the ground up (instead of adding additional buttons with every generation). Maybe it's just me (I'm German, so I share the design-mentality of a German-design-approach) but just look at the switch for the exposure method. In the R8 it was perfectly integrated underneath the time wheel - where is it on the F5 (or D3x)? At the side of the prism, who came up with this idea? Just because there was space left?

I would love to hear how a Japanese feels about that, maybe it's the opposite?

The S2 is menu-based, the buttons are "case-sensitive" or programmable. YOU choose which buttons you always need and program them - the primary controls are clean and intuitive - the camera feels "organic".

One question, because I didn't had the time on Photokina:
How do you move a zoomed image on the display when you don't have buttons for up/down/left/right? Diagonally with the four buttons surrounding the display?

 

[Paratom]

I agree in how we get used to things and also in personal preferences.
In case of the R9 I really didnt like the exp-comp lever. I also didnt like that much the position of the time wheel. (I prefered the way it was placed in the R6-body-generation with the larger wheel around he shutter release button)Again, I am not trying to say one is better than the other, I just can speek for myself and I personally was surprized how many here complain about the Nikon user interface while I really like it.
There are other cameras with many buttons where I get confused (for example the G1 of my wife) but not in the case of Nikon.
And I allways thought that I liked the R9-DMR more because of the lenses and not so much because of the user interface.
But I guess that has not much to do with the S2. I had the S2 in my hand only once and it felt pretty good.