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Leaf moves manufacture to China?

georgl

New member
We are completely off-topic now, but nevertheless very interesting. I found this little video, of course it's not a scientific in-depth report but it might give an idea "how to make CCDs":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cTQNjVdVf8

Unless you want to produce billions of them, you don't need a multi-billion-$-fab...

I'll agree, but isn't Dr. Kaufmann the owner and not the CEO - I'm not sure how you )English-speakers) define "CEO", I always thought these people are just managers!?

@dfarkas
I'm very excited to see Leica-lenses for cinema, one of the very few markets which seek highest quality in photographic equipment and are willing to pay the price! S-lenses even cover 65mm-film and have electronic focus/aperture control which might be very interesting! By the way, the Academy-Award-winning Panavision Primo-lenses were designed and (still are) manufactured by Leitz Canada (now Elcan).
They need to diversificate, just like Zeiss did (or Leitz before it was splitted), offering their know-how and R&D/production resources to as many independent markets as possible.
 

robmac

Well-known member
CEO can be just a hired gun/manager in place by the Chairman/Board, or the man/woman who started the business from day 1, or the person/CEO of the corporation who acquired the firm, etc. Chairman theoretically runs the show w/Board, but CEO can also have Chairman's title. Chairman is often no more than figurehead title.

As for Boards of Directors - don't even get me started on how ineffectual the vast majority are; there for the Directors fees, hired for their influence in target markets/governments or for PR purposes. They usually sign off on whatever is presented to them, have no specific industry experience, have Directors insurance and often resign en mass at first eruption of serious scandal.

There is the very nice Business 101 theory of the checks and balances of power within a corporation and the concept of the fiduciary duties the CEO, Chairman, and Directors and President (head operations person) should have & exercise -- and then their is the real world.

Regardless of his title(s), given his ownership stake, Leica is Dr. K's show/hobby/passion to do with as he decides - but what he or any other CEO, Chairman, effective head of a business says/promises in public should be taken with the same degree of trust as that from any politician. Believe it when you see it.

I love the capitalist system and loved working in the belly of the beast as it were (24x7 adrenalin rush), but the whole enchilada needs a good 'hard reset'. Sometimes ignorance IS truly bliss. Anyway, far too off topic. We shall see what the future brings. Hopefully that's prosperity and growth for Solms under the Leica 'dot'.
 
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ptomsu

Workshop Member
Also, according to the S2 product managers, they are not ruling out using DALSA for future projects.

David
This at least is some good news! Knowing meanwhile the quality which DALSA sensors can produce, I would rather like to see a Dalsa sensor compared to a Kodak sensor in the S2 - but this is wishful thinking I know.

So for the future it might be an option at least.
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
I can think of two things off-hand which he might mean with that, and both makes sense. One is lenses for digital projectors for cinemas, which makes sense in the context of the new Pradovit, and the other is lenses for movie cameras, which also makes sense, and would put Leica up against companies like Zeiss.
All the public statement of CEOs and owners of companies are just hot air! In best case they can talk about visions, their visions, over the next few years, but it is definitely not more than visions!

All what is constructed from the outside based on those statements is not even hot air, it is just BS. And this is because we do know nothing and reality inside a company can be 180 degrees different from what we are told. Or it can change within shortest time, so whatever is said in public statements, especially at keynotes at tradeshows etc is better to forget or not even to listen. One of the main reasons I do not like to attend keynotes anymore :cool::(:LOL:
 

carstenw

Active member
All the public statement of CEOs and owners of companies are just hot air! In best case they can talk about visions, their visions, over the next few years, but it is definitely not more than visions!
That's a very jaded statement. Each company and each CEO is different. Leica had some bad CEOs, it is true, but the company generally doesn't promise much but keeps what it promises. There have been quality problems but I cannot think of a single vapourware product from Leica (which doesn't mean that there hasn't been one). If Herr Doktor Kaufmann mentions "Leica Cinema", then there will almost certainly be something coming. Timing and specifics are of course up in the air.
 

robmac

Well-known member
Jaded comes with exposure - the more exposure to what is said in public by various company leaders vs what you know is actually happening (or are even helping with) off-microphone, the more jaded you get. Like said earlier, ignorance is often bliss.

Some DO try and be forthcoming/promise and deliver, but even with the best of intentions/honor, circumstances can change in a heartbeat and what was said/promised/alluded to his immediately a fantasy; and now you've got a problem with customers.

Public comments/allusions are also a VERY powerful form of negotiation with POSSIBLE allies, adversaries, buyers & targets as well as suppliers - and customers (retention tool). That said, far too many leaders start to believe their own BS and/or like the attention and forget that public promises/allusions can come back to bite you on the a** in a hurry.

The smart ones say only the very minimum necessary, promise/pre-announce nothing and just quietly deliver. People's speculation within a void cannot be held against you. However, if customers can wrap that speculation, even loosely, around comments/allusions you made ___, you COULD have a real problem on the horizon if you don't/can't/never intended (outside of a miracle) to deliver.

My advice again - take any comments from any company leader as "hum, that might be great/nice/suck" and then immediately forget about it -- until you see it come to pass.

Must leave this thread, must... ;>
 
S

selsoe

Guest
"P1 is owned by lego"
Seriously? That would mean that some of us play with the same toys since decades! ;-)
Phase One is not owned by Lego! From Phase One's own site:

In 1994 Phase One was acquired by one of the leading venture capital companies in Denmark. In 2006 the ownership structure in Phase One changed. Four members of the Phase One management team have, as majority shareholders taken ownership of Phase One.

http://www.phaseone.com/Content/ContactUs/AboutUs.aspx
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
That's a very jaded statement. Each company and each CEO is different. Leica had some bad CEOs, it is true, but the company generally doesn't promise much but keeps what it promises. There have been quality problems but I cannot think of a single vapourware product from Leica (which doesn't mean that there hasn't been one). If Herr Doktor Kaufmann mentions "Leica Cinema", then there will almost certainly be something coming. Timing and specifics are of course up in the air.
It is REALLY incredible how credulous some people are!

Did you already forget the D System? Did you forget the DMR? and so on ....

It is really incredible - sorry, i am just overwhelmed by such naiveness!

A company does nothing else than playing bad games with the market - reasons for this are some different story - and then, just because one person - in this case the owner - steps up and says almost nothing, the whole past is forgotten?

If you like to live like that, then fine, your life and your health and your luck, BUT do NOT insist on others doing the same stupid thing!:mad:

And BTW, I do hope that Dr. Kaufmann is different and one can trust what he says! But only time will and can tell! And we will have the real answer only in 2-3 years from now. All advanced is just reading coffee pot bottom or hot air!
 

Paratom

Well-known member
Peter,
have you ever had the thought that Leica is kind of a small specialized company which struggled to survive over the last years and to adapt to shorter products cycles? A company which trys (and does in many ways IMO) to hold their level of quality (at least regarding glass) and still be competitive regarding prices.(kind of)
Maybe some things went wrong, I personally would not call that bad games.
I am glad that Leica still exists and keeps coming up with excellent optical products and I personally would accept if they take a little more time. And the best thing-I dont feel stupid.
I have enjoyed my M8 for long time now-while others discussed the flaws I enjoyed the IQ. Maybe it depends on what you concentrate.
I remember the DMR as one of the DSLRs I have owned which delievers exceptional IQ at low ISO, I dont remember much about the D system since it never interested me.
Changing CEOs and changing strategies are nothing special today too.


It is REALLY incredible how credulous some people are!

Did you already forget the D System? Did you forget the DMR? and so on ....

It is really incredible - sorry, i am just overwhelmed by such naiveness!

A company does nothing else than playing bad games with the market - reasons for this are some different story - and then, just because one person - in this case the owner - steps up and says almost nothing, the whole past is forgotten?

If you like to live like that, then fine, your life and your health and your luck, BUT do NOT insist on others doing the same stupid thing!:mad:

And BTW, I do hope that Dr. Kaufmann is different and one can trust what he says! But only time will and can tell! And we will have the real answer only in 2-3 years from now. All advanced is just reading coffee pot bottom or hot air!
 

carstenw

Active member
Did you already forget the D System? Did you forget the DMR? and so on ....
What are the others in "and so on"?

The DMR exists. The "D" system? What is that, Digilux 3? That exists too. I think I have made my point here. As I said, timing may vary, but I am not aware of any Leica vapourware products.
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
And so on refers to:

1) R System, which was stopped and taken out of production - very foreseeing
2) Digilux2 line (The Digilux 3 is NO continuation)
3) all the promises WRT lenses for the D System. Finally it turned out you could not even buy a 1.4/25 from Leica, but had to go via Panasonic. With all the bad things about the Pana distribution structure.

Come on, I am just too tired to repeat all this again and again.

Am I very negative? YES I am!

Why is this? Because I believed in what Leica and their CEOs said so often and when was left alone with a product or a product line without any follow up. In best case repair :(

This is not what I expect of an innovative company, even if it is small!

And just to put this right - I hope for Leica and their future and products, especially the S System, I would love to see this a huge success and easy decision to buy. But I am not going into another short living dependency with that vendor again, so they have to prove first.

And proving the truth is not enough for the CEO to say some nice words! It needs several consecutive years of success and good reputation, then they will be able to win my trust again. Especially when speaking about price levels of digital MF systems.:cool:
 

Paratom

Well-known member
...
And just to put this right - I hope for Leica and their future and products, especially the S System, I would love to see this a huge success and easy decision to buy. But I am not going into another short living dependency with that vendor again, so they have to prove first.

And proving the truth is not enough for the CEO to say some nice words! It needs several consecutive years of success and good reputation, then they will be able to win my trust again. Especially when speaking about price levels of digital MF systems.:cool:
So Peter, if Leica doesnt have your trust, for which camera have you decided?
Or do you plan to wait another 2-3 years and see whats going on in the market?
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
So Peter, if Leica doesnt have your trust, for which camera have you decided?
Or do you plan to wait another 2-3 years and see whats going on in the market?
Will play this different ;)

No decision yet, but so far Phase seems to be the winner.

Let's see how long I can survive with 35mm FF DSLR :)
 

carstenw

Active member
And so on refers to:

1) R System, which was stopped and taken out of production - very foreseeing
2) Digilux2 line (The Digilux 3 is NO continuation)
3) all the promises WRT lenses for the D System. Finally it turned out you could not even buy a 1.4/25 from Leica, but had to go via Panasonic. With all the bad things about the Pana distribution structure.
You are talking about questionable or bad decisions (to be clear: your opinion; I don't agree on all points), I am talking about vapourware. There is no vapourware in any of your lists, you are talking about other things.
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
You are talking about questionable or bad decisions (to be clear: your opinion; I don't agree on all points), I am talking about vapourware. There is no vapourware in any of your lists, you are talking about other things.
Sorry Carsten, but you are the worst example of people who do not want to understand - even if everything is crystal clear.

Wish you all the best for your decisions etc, but for sure not my way of living and thinking.

Let's no longer waste time ;)
 

stephengilbert

Active member
Peter,

Perhaps we might define the term "vaporware" sow we don't have to call people names. As I understand the term, it refers to an announced product that is never released. (See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware.) I Leica or some other company produces a product that doesn't meet your standards, or that is not manufactured for long enough to suit you, you may have a complaint, but it isn't "vaporware."

I understand that you sometimes don't trust Leica to produce a product that meets your standards (although at other times it appears that you do), but as far as I can see you've pointed to no Leica vaporware.

Regards, Steve
 

evgeny

Member
Ben,
I not received response from Yair and their local dealer in Israel.
I just left a voice message to the dealer in Tel Aviv.
Prepare to what is currently said inside Creo-Scitex:

Part 1: Production of the Leaf is stopped. All 50 employees will be fired by the end of this week.

Part 2: Initiative is run by an Israeli manager(s) at Scitex (the original name of the Israeli company) to find investors to keep Leaf production and the employees. This business, if established, will separate from Creo-Scitex-Kodak brand.

:talk028:
 
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