Leaf moves manufacture to China?

[Guy Mancuso]

LOL, brilliant! :ROTFL: If you don't like Peter's current opinion on the S2, just wait 5 minutes. Sorry, Peter, but you you flip-flop so much on this issue that I am getting dizzy.

Well in Peter's defense this really is tough call and I have been in the same situation as well as many MF shooters. Obviously this is a risk with a lot of money involved. Buying a Canon, Nikon or a M8 is almost a no brainer and get your money almost entirely back. MF is a different breed and really hard to make a decision. One of the issues is obviously Leica is well known for great optics but never been in this market and everything else that goes with it and not going to list them off like marketing toilet paper either for the better or worse. The big issue it is not out and no way to test it or see where it is at. Now Peter's situation is he wants to move on something and right now flip flopping is normal since he knows what is coming to a certain degree 4 months from now. Now I will also say the marketing or better word posturing on it is over the top. I can argue every good point about it with a counter point. For something that is not on the street a complete waste of time until than. Not that any MF system is better or worse they all have limitations on something but we are not hearing that part and let's face facts and i am a leica fan boy but some of this stuff is just coming off the ridiculous planet on some of these forums. It's hard to ignore it when you are trying to make a decision. And a decision that a load of REAL money. No one in there right mind wants to make a mistake and trust me I get the e-mails saying they made a mistake on a system and asking for advice. Believe me these are not rare messages but becoming more normal and folks are up against a wall. Okay I am jumping out of this conversation But this is a big investment.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

I admit survival mode is not the best choice of words but until someone goes down like a brick we can only speculate. Myself i am not worried about my investment in Phase/Mamiya for a second. I felt I made a good choice than and still do.

 

[carstenw]

Yes, the Phase system seems to fit your needs very well. Still, I can't help but wonder what would go on in your head if the S2 came out and looked good. Just 3 more months, then we can put a lot of the speculation behind us.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Honestly all I really want is just a updated body. Once phase /Mamiya gets that out the door most anyones issues will be gone except maybe the big LCD which still does not bug me. Just a more fluid body would be nice.

BTW the S2 fits my hand very nicely , just not willing to take a chance on it until 2nd quarter next year and that is if everything hits all it's marks. I feel no need to jump on it at all

 

[wolf65]

buying photographic gear might be a never ending journey but the topic of this thread is leaf and there are probably a few guys around (including me) who - after having bought leaf products - are pretty much concerned about the future of this company.
so why are you folks flooding this post with your half-baked nonsense about products you never seriously worked with. why are the majority of posts and the most silly and dogmatic positions coming from guys who are only dreaming but don`t even possess a mf?
better to start your own "i always know better than you thread" or simply pick up whatever system you have and shoot a few frames. (and leave this thread to those who can contribute some relevant information)
its a thorny way to achieve widom :angel:
best
wolf

 

[carstenw]

Perhaps you can explain how ownership of a Leaf back makes you more qualified to comment on Leaf's current status than anyone else?

No one appears to know what is going on with Leaf these days. Do you prefer an empty thread slipping off the bottom of the 1st page?

Welcome to the ranks of the dogmatists and better-knowers, by the way. You clearly satisfy the requirements

 

[robmac]

Carsten - yup, just my chicken-bone readings. Them and a $1.50 will get you a cup of coffee (stay out of Starbucks however).

 

[wolf65]

thanx so much! it makes me proud having been upgraded that fast.

 

[carstenw]

Hey, no problem, you sure came in with a bang.

But you are at least partially right anyway. There are a few people here who speak out a fair amount, yet don't own an MFDB. I am probably the worst offender. I know I am opinionated, but I try to keep it fun and fair. But why am I here?

I came here while planning to buy an MFDB, hoping to pick up some knowledge and learn some things in advance, so that I would be more ready. I also came to figure out what to get. I ended up buying the Contax 645 with 80/2, 35/3.5 and 120/4 macro, a kit which I really like. Especially the 35 and 120 really please me. But so far only film.

I was hoping to make a quick sale of my Leica WATE, and so partially finance my ascent to MDFB ownership ranks in fairly quick order, but it appears that the second-hand market is just as dead as the new market at the moment. Having no other money on hand at this time, I guess I will have to sit tight for a while, or if there is little hope on the horizon, just get the A900 that I have been eyeing on the side. I guess that would make me happy for a while.

Meanwhile, the technical threads here are drying up a bit, and the number of photos being posted has also gone down. I don't know if the economy is at fault, or if people are just too busy to post. Either way, what I came for is in short supply at the moment, and my upgrade is taking longer than planned.

So, I think it is only fair if I leave this forum in peace until the time that I am also an MFDB owner. I might continue to read, but I promise not to post. I will reserve that for forums where I am closer to the goal, or am already an owner.

Having said that, I feel compelled to point out that the real value of this forum, as in any other, comes from the people who post helpful technical information and photos, not from armchair strategists who just happen to be MFDB owners. People like Don, Jack and Guy give this place what makes it worth hanging out. There are many other MFDB owners who don't contribute much knowledge or art, and I don't see them as being very different from myself, in effective terms. I would hope that they recognize themselves and resolve to be more active in real terms.

Anyway, good luck to all, and I wish you great light. Maybe we'll meet here again one day under more favorable terms (i.e. me having an MFDB).

 

[evgeny]

Unfortunately confirmed the the Leaf dealer in Israel:

LEAF is discontinued

 

[Henry Goh]

Unfortunately confirmed the the Leaf dealer in Israel:

LEAF is discontinued

Hope this statement is accurate because it is going to impact seriously on owners of Leaf backs

 

[Anders_HK]

Unfortunately confirmed the the Leaf dealer in Israel:

LEAF is discontinued

Hi,

It appears that your original post was proven incorrect in the first page of this thread. Thus, why should we believe your statement here????

We know they are up to something because quiet. All websites up and running, simply we are to wait until they announce. Perhaps it is their way to reorganize and secure future growth in business?

Or, do you have any hard facts to anything you have posted here??

Regards
Anders

 

[ptomsu]

LOL, brilliant! :ROTFL: If you don't like Peter's current opinion on the S2, just wait 5 minutes. Sorry, Peter, but you you flip-flop so much on this issue that I am getting dizzy.

I might flip flop on what I like, yes, this depends on some daily mood, I admit!

But WRT the facts I do not flop if you read this all carefully.

1) For me the concept behind the S2 is great!

2) For me Leica glass is stellar (although they have also some less good designs, but for the S2 I think will be perfect as these are new designs optimized for the S2).

3) There is one real competitor in terms of stellar glass and this is Zeiss - from my experience back from analog times, I preferred Zeiss even more than Leica - needs to be seen how this translates into the digital age.

4) I have my concerns with the timeliness delivery of this S2 product (market window for the camera).

5) I have my concerns with the ability of Leica to follow up successfully (and this definition is for sure something individual) all their system (product) trains.

6) I have huge concerns with Leica being able to build a working support infrastructure for their S System - which Pro's will accept.

7) I have concerns if Pro's will accept or even switch over to Leica S2 from their existing equipment - so how to generate market.

8) I have huge concerns with Leica if it comes to good enough and timely follow up - new versions of the S2, extended lens range, new R system, new M9 etc etc - directly related with too many product lines.

9) I DO NOT care if they have diversified enough etc, this is their part and the have to decide. What I care is that they manage to be right in time to market with new products - and yes unfortunately they have a big gap currently, so this buts even more burden on them!

10) I see the difference between Leica quality (IQ) and other vendor's quality (IQ) shrinking - this is a process already being seen over many years (decades) and especially in today's digital world it is even more noticeable - shall mean the premium price you pay for their products is often not worth the difference you get!

If I look over this list there are more concerns than glory and love for a perfect technical solution. This is my opinion and it has been always and does not change daily, not even yearly.

 

[ptomsu]

WRT LEAF and their future:

Although I am not a customer of them I am concerned about their company and future and my feeling is the go down the road and will be bought in best case by someone else. Just my personal feeling and I hope it will be a good future for them and their products, but I doubt.

 

[PeterA]

I am NOT going to suggest that you two kiss and make up :ROTFL::ROTFL:

One point I will make Carsten is that IMHO the internet is a very ordinary venue for display of photography. Sure it is good to share - but for me ..it is the print that matters. A lot of my work is personal and to be frank - for this forum it would be considered pretty much off topic - I dont have access to dramatic landscapes or beautiful models - I shoot boring landscapes and boring urban shots and street. The littel commercial work I have done is copywitten and off topic anyway - it is editorial reportage in style and not typical magazine spread - again so what?

Another point to share with you - technical internet chatter is NOT photography. Everything I have learned is self taught - that is the fun for me in photography. A lot of peopel dont have the technical language or experience to seperate crapola from wisdom - take care what you ingest and repeat - most stuff you read is BS.

Too much pixel peeping on here as far as I am concerned ..too many BS 100% crops as if they mean anything to an image maker.

Regarding posting pics- seriously, how many people on here are qualified to critique - which genre for what audience?

This is a great place to say hello to old friends and people I have known for years. Most of whom dont need an internet forum to help them with any gear decision.

Why not cool down and relax - criticising people on the internet is a waste of time and energy. -

 

[evgeny]

Hi,

It appears that your original post was proven incorrect in the first page of this thread. Thus, why should we believe your statement here????

We know they are up to something because quiet. All websites up and running, simply we are to wait until they announce. Perhaps it is their way to reorganize and secure future growth in business?

Or, do you have any hard facts to anything you have posted here??

Regards
Anders

Please don't believe me. :ROTFL:
The web sites doesn't matter, Contax 645 has web site, too, so what.

 

[Anders_HK]

Please don't believe me. :ROTFL:
The web sites doesn't matter, Contax 645 has web site, too, so what.

Well, the Contax is long dead but my Leaf agent still picks up phone on holiday today. :ROTFL:

- Facts matter. It appears you do not have any. Correct?

Or... post facts and explain with detail.

If not, only show :thumbdown:

 

[fotografz]

All of these discussions are focused on the makers of MF digital gear.

The real question is the state of professional photography, which is where the sustaining sales will come from ... or not.

In general, it is deplorable.

Investments in gear are still being made, but for many like me, it's a shifting target as to where the money will come from. To enhance success (AKA: survival) my focus has shifted from MFD type work to DSLR and rangefinder investments ... because that's where the paying work is for me right now ... and for the foreseeable future. No matter how I run the numbers, what my MFD stuff is worth verses what an upgrade would cost is not a viable business move.

Trust me, I'm not alone in this.

The market place is ferociously competitive. More dogs fighting for less bones. And the dogs are getting bigger as the bone pile dwindles and top dogs go for things they never competed for in the past.

It would not surprise me to see two companies left standing if this pace keeps up ... Hasselblad and Phase One.

 

[ptomsu]

All of these discussions are focused on the makers of MF digital gear.

The real question is the state of professional photography, which is where the sustaining sales will come from ... or not.

In general, it is deplorable.

Investments in gear are still being made, but for many like me, it's a shifting target as to where the money will come from. To enhance success (AKA: survival) my focus has shifted from MFD type work to DSLR and rangefinder investments ... because that's where the paying work is for me right now ... and for the foreseeable future. No matter how I run the numbers, what my MFD stuff is worth verses what an upgrade would cost is not a viable business move.

Trust me, I'm not alone in this.

The market place is ferociously competitive. More dogs fighting for less bones. And the dogs are getting bigger as the bone pile dwindles and top dogs go for things they never competed for in the past.

It would not surprise me to see two companies left standing if this pace keeps up ... Hasselblad and Phase One.

Kind of what I say as well!

 

[beamon]

Okay I am jumping out of this conversation But this is a big investment.

:ROTFL: LMAO. Guy's jumping out again! Face it Guy, you're like most of us. This stupid thread is pure speculation on nearly everyone's part, but it's like eating peanuts...you can't stop!

Heck, I don't even have a dog in this fight. Only MF work I ever did was weddings ~1965-1975. Finished that stint up with a Graflex XL. Anyone old ebough to remember that 2.25 x 2.75 inch format? Ya had to be young, then, to walk around all day with that 15 pound high voltage battery slung from your shoulder.

Ok, I'll retreat into reading mode, again, but keep posting the graet stuff, folks; wouldn't miss it for the world.