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Biting the bullet - the Cube

steflaurent974

Active member
Georg,

I have a Multiflex Cube Head (copy of the Arca) and I am very happy with the facilities it offers for framing. I do not have try the original one, I can only imagine it is equal or better than the copy !

But we have all already discuss of the problem in an other hot thread ! LOL
 

thomas

New member
I honestly don't get the hype about the Cube.
It's certainly a great tool. An outstanding tool probably. But do you guys all shoot architecture or repro work?
I am shooting a lot of architectural subjects and I'm fine even with a good ball head. In rare cases I use a heavy 3way head with extra big (long) levels. Both works very fine... so I have no problem to resist the Cube by now.
Don't want to spoil the party for you though... :)
 

carstenw

Active member
I have a good ballhead, the RRS BH-55, but still find it frustrating to have to tweak it slightly when I am leaning in one direction. I would love a cube, but the price prohibits it.
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
I honestly don't get the hype about the Cube.
It's certainly a great tool. An outstanding tool probably. But do you guys all shoot architecture or repro work?
I am shooting a lot of architectural subjects and I'm fine even with a good ball head. In rare cases I use a heavy 3way head with extra big (long) levels. Both works very fine... so I have no problem to resist the Cube by now.
Don't want to spoil the party for you though... :)
Thomas:

No offense, but it's because you have never used one. (And I shoot mostly landscape, though also some product.) Use a Cube for an hour, and all becomes clear...


:),
 

woodyspedden

New member
One good example comes from the recent workshop with Guy.

I was shooting my usual landscapes but now with the cube. As a result I finally found a great use for the virtual horizon indicator on the D3X (or D3 or D700). I assigned the virtual landscape mode to the AEL button on the rear of the camera. I could then depress the button and do one handed adjustments with the cube to assure the horizon was level. Try that one with a ball head! It would require at least three hands and probably four.

Perhaps many do not obsess over straight horizons but I do and now I can get them without frustration. I suspect that as I get even more experience with the cube even more applications will reveal themselves to me.

JMHO

Woody
 

Terry

New member
Thomas:

No offense, but it's because you have never used one. (And I shoot mostly landscape, though also some product.) Use a Cube for an hour, and all becomes clear...


:),
I've watched both you and Woody effortlessly make very subtle precise moves with the cube....It really should be on my wish list.
 

Don Libby

Well-known member
Thomas:

No offense, but it's because you have never used one. (And I shoot mostly landscape, though also some product.) Use a Cube for an hour, and all becomes clear...


:),
I respectfully disagree with Jack's assertion that it would take you an hour of use for it all to become clear.

It took me far less than an hour and I was completely hooked on the Cube.

I've had the Cube now for about 6 months now and I've found I just can't photograph without it near by, my eyes are clearer, by teeth brighter, and my hair is fuller. People flock to me whenever I go out in public with the Cube by my side and are now asking for autographs.

All kidding aside - I shoot landscape and this is simply the easiest and fastest to setup and the sturdiest platform to work off of.

Don
 

Don Libby

Well-known member
I'm beginning to wonder if we might need to show people some of the challenging out of the way unusual places where working with the Cube helped get the image.

What do you think Jack - Bob and others of the Cube?


Don
 

JohnH

New member
Hmmm. I should point this out - my Internet Explorer tab displays the name of this thread as 'Biting the Bull'.

:toocool:

Just thought you would like to know...

John
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
I'm beginning to wonder if we might need to show people some of the challenging out of the way unusual places where working with the Cube helped get the image.

What do you think Jack - Bob and others of the Cube?


Don
Okay, admittedly I was being conservative with the one hour --- reality is probably more like a mean of 12 minutes :ROTFL:

Well, one thing is it has eliminated the need for me to carry a complex, nodal panning attachment in addition to a regular tripod head -- the Cube has that built in if you add a sliding rail, which most of us have.
 

tashley

Subscriber Member
I got my plate adaptor today and then had to spend the whole day out on business so I've not yet had the chance to use the setup, love it in principle and feel as I do. But I do wonder what it offers me (other than being gorgeous) that's more useful than my Manfrotto geared 410 head. The latter may be a tad heavier and a bit larger and the pan is decentred from the camera but on the plus side it is very accurate and sure, much much cheaper, looks far less likely to get screwed up by a grain of sand and best of all it has a gear override so you can make large adjustments really quickly like a ballhead then very fine geared adjustments thereafter.

Anyone else tried both and have an opinion? I will test the cube for camera shake on my Gitzo GT 3541LS and Phamiya setup tomorrow.

Tim
 

Bob

Administrator
Staff member
Tim,
I have used both and I settled on the cube because:
1)The 410's geared motions are on two cantilevered arms so that any slop creates complex motions and shake.
I could actually see the shake :eek: whenever I didn't use mirror lockup.
2) the cube sports two panning devices, one at the base and one at its top.
It works very well when stitching a pano panning with the top device on the level platform created by the cube.
3) any slop that might exist in the gears (and I have none detected in mine)
may be taken up with the friction adjustment
4) The gearing advantage inherent in the worm gear drive almost guarantees no creep.
5) The motion of the platform as it is moved through its motions are almost nodal and do not interact with one another.
-bob
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
Everything Bob said.

I had the 410 for less than an hour and returned it due to being both sloppy from slack in the gears and wobbly due to that combined with having too long of arm moments. The larger 405 might be better, but I doubt it...

Note that when I say Cube, it doesn't have to be the Arca Swiss version -- it is the overall design I like, and if the Chinese knock-off is as well made, it will be a winner too.
 

jlm

Workshop Member
my word was "knockoff" as well, but re-thinking it, it may very well be that Arca had been outsourcing it's production to China all along...
 

tashley

Subscriber Member
Thanks guys, that makes sense in many ways. My Frotto is not sloppily geared and compared to my ballhead it is very un-shaky but I do feel the Cube to be more solid. However I will test the two against each other because I have previously learned that the way things look as if they are performing can be belied by their results. The Phamy 645 III creates a lot of vibration, even with MUP, and I'll be delighted to find that the cube can handle it!
 

tashley

Subscriber Member
Preliminary results from quite a few samples, which are too boring and too numerous to post:

Phamiya 645D with 150 F3.5 MF lens shot tethered and focussed using Live View.

NO MUP (the reason for this is that I want to see how this works for portraits at the moment, rather than my mainstream landscape stuff so I will test with MUP later). This also explains why all the tests were done with vertical orientation, which is more challenging because of cantilever effects.

Shutter speeds of 1/200th through 1/12th second at a fixed ISO of 50.

Target was a lens test chart on a wall about three metres away.

Tripod was a Gitzo GT 3541LS and a cable release was used. A hard laid tiled floor was used. There was no breeze.

Head combo 1: Cube with Arca L plate (kindly supplied by Martin Vogt of Arca) in VERTICAL position on a flat cube.

1/200th Good
1/100th Good
1/50th Not great
1/25th No way
1/12th Not great but the best of the three tested at this shutter speed and I might risk it at a pinch.


Head combo 2: Cube with Arca L plate in HORIZONTAL position but with the Cube tilted 90 degrees

1/200th Good
1/100th Good
1/50th Good
1/25th 90% good
1/12th Wouldn't use it

Head combo 3: Manfrotto 410 with standard plate and oriented at 90 degree tilt so as to give vertical FOV

1/200th Good
1/100th Good
1/50th Good
1/25th 80% good
1/12th Wouldn't use it.

'Wouldn't use it' means IMHO that there's a two pixel blur or worse and that the shot is clearly less sharp at 50% on screen than the reference shots taken at 1/200th.

As for the possibility of focus shift being the cause of apparent blur (rather than shake): I haven't tested this lens for it because I've never suspected it, nor was there any pattern in these tests to suggest it.

I will test this rig further especially in the horizontal orientation and also with MUP and various delays between MUP and shutter release. In the meantime the Cube bests the 410, just, when used with the L plate in horizontal position but the cube itself providing the 90 degree tilt. If the vertical position option of the Arca plate is used, there seems to be less stability even at 1/50th second but surprisingly at 1/12th second this is the best permutation - but still not good enough really.

So the cube wins, just and by a tiny margin, but I don't trust the L plate in vertical position: I prfer it horizontally deployed with the cube itself providing 90 degrees of tilt.

All the usual health warnings apply but I did try all this a few times and am certainly confident enough with the results to act on them myself!

Hope that helps, or even mildly interests, someone! I think that the Arca L plate has some issues in vertical orientation, because used in that way the camera is quite heavily cantilevered way from the point of attachment to the plate. Admittedly the cube itself, when tilted to 90 degrees, has a lot of cantilever stress but it seems to handle it well. The fact that the best results at 1/12th are form the Cube with L plate in vertical position is most likely due to some aspect of harmonic vibrations or sympathetic frequencies in the rig. The Manfrotto does extremely well when the price comparison is made, falling only very slightly behind the Cube's best showing and even then only at the 1/25th shutter speed BUT it is less elegant, annoying and clunky to use (though actually it can be faster when you get used to it) and it is both heavier and more angular to pack.

Best

Tim
 
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carstenw

Active member
Very interesting, and mildly disappointing. I wonder if the tripod is too light? Now I am curious if anyone has done similarly rigorous tests of the 410 vs. the 405?
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
Tim:

Curious about the Arca L plate.

1) Is is a generic fit, or designed specifically for the Mamiya -- meaning does it have the two registration pins in the base that fit into the corresponding pair of holes in the base of the Mamiya?

2) Is the mounting screw a 1/4" thread or a 3/8" thread bolt?
 

Don Libby

Well-known member
Interesting - I had a Kirk L-plate on my Phase and it was rock solidi n any direction. Then again it was made specifically for the body.

I'd be very leery of generic one size fits all...
 
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