The Shake Up: SINAR

[Guy Mancuso]

Some news today from BJP

Title: Franke & Heidecke facing the end
Feature: news
Date: 8 July 2009

The German company behind the Rolleiflex twin-lens camera system and the 6x6 format camera body for both Leaf and Sinar has closed, BJP can reveal. Its closure also deals a heavy blow to the Leaf AFi system and reshapes the entire medium format camera landscape.

Last week, BJP learnt that Franke & Heidecke had sent a letter to its 131 employees, spelling the end of all operations. Paul Franke and Reinhold Heidecke formed the company in 1920, when they launched the Werkstatt fur Feinmechanik und Optik, Franke & Heidecke workshop. The company developed and successfully marketed the Rolleiflex brand and became a major player in the medium format camera market.

When digital took over, Franke & Heidecke developed the 6x6 body it marketed under the Rolleiflex Hy6 name, and licensed to Leaf and Sinar, which respectively sold it under the AFi and Hy6 brands.

Already, the news of Franke & Heidecke's demise has claimed one victim: the Leaf AFi camera system, which BJP can confirm is now on hold. Ziv Argov, head of sales and marketing for Leaf Imaging - a company created by Phase One and former managers at Leaf - tells BJP that while it has the rights for the Leaf AFi, it 'is not planning to manufacture it. With the complex situation in Germany, the Leaf AFi is currently on hold'.

He adds: 'Leaf Imaging will not be selling the AFi on Day One of operations. We have to determine its viability. We are very interested in participating with others in making the system commercially available. Obviously, this will require one more partner with production capabilities, including lenses, shutters, and so on.'

Franke & Heidecke's closure only precipitated the demise of the AFi system. Last month, in a wide-ranging interview with BJP, Henrik O Hakonsson, president and CEO at Phase One confirmed the AFi system was being re-evaluated after Phase One agreed to form Leaf Imaging to buy Leaf's assets. He had warned that the system's fate would be determined by Franke & Heidecke's financial situation.

Sinar is also affected by the Franke & Heidecke closure. Speaking to BJP, a Sinar spokeswoman reacted to the news: 'Unfortunately the final decision about the Sinar Hy6 camera is still pending,' she says. 'Sinar is still confident this product will continue. A final decision is expected around end of July.' However, the company is refusing to comment further in an effort to control its message, according to the spokeswoman.

The financial troubles at Franke & Heidecke started last year after the firm partnered with Hans R Schmid Beteiligungs to inject new finance to support an increase in its production of camera systems and lenses. However, by January this year the company appeared to be running into difficulties and it announced that its chief executive officer would leave the company following disagreements with the new partner, who had become the majority shareholder as part of the investment deal.

'In view of different views regarding past and future policies and cooperation with the new partner Hans R Schmid, Mr Bodo Fischer offered his resignation from the management of Franke & Heidecke, an offer that was accepted by the company,' the firm said in a statement in January.

In a March statement, the company said it was being forced into administration.

Closure
However, after three months of negotiations with the German government and banks, Franke & Heidecke told its employees on 01 July that it would close down and end all its operations by September this year, putting an end to 80 years of Rolleiflex cameras and the two-year old collaboration with Jenoptik, Leaf and Sinar to produce the 6x6 medium format camera.

The 'open' digital platform initiative came after Hasselblad announced its H3D camera would no longer be made compatible with competing digital backs (BJP, 18 October 2006), citing a lack of co-operative investment from other makers.

The development of the camera was, at first, largely financed by Jenoptik, which hoped to recuperate the costs by 'franchising' the camera to Leaf, and by distributing it through its subsiduary company, Sinar.

It is widely expected that Franke & Heidecke's demise will reshape the entire medium format camera market, with Sinar expected to communicate the future of its product lines this month.

Check bjp-online.com/news for further updates.

 

[fotografz]

Hi friends,

I was reading this string about Sinar in Canada. I live in Montreal, Quebec, I have been doing professional photography here for the last 20 years using Sinar and Broncolor.

For the last 15 years about there has not seen one professional tread show and since Lisle Kelco lost the Sinar brand we have not been serve properly.

Even when I had to replace levels on my P2, I had to deal whit SBI in the States. I think if Sinar wants to make a break true here, they must really make a big effort in promoting there products.

The other problem is that the markets have been dropping for the last 5 years. In the last 6 mounts I know like 6 Photographers that have close there studios, due to the lack of work.

I for one would love to shot with the Sinar backs, accept it would be impossible to amortize it in a reasonable time, even a Nikon d3x is hard to amortize. So I had to shot using Nikon since the clients don't have the money to pay us properly and we are competing agains new comers that ready to work for credits.

I am confident that in a year or two the markets here will have recover and we might be able to have proper representation from Sinar.

Think of all that heritage ...

 

[evgeny]

I have a peace in my heart.

Imagine all MFDB manufacturers were closed, and no MFDB is produced anymore, and no support exists at all.

So, I end up with a working MFDB equipment, which worth 1/2 - 1/3th or so of what I initially paid.
So what?
I actually use Contax 645 with DB backs that became a history. I don't run to buy a Nikon D3x or upgrade (every year) to a 50MP back.
I use what I have and still happy. I can buy a replacement on eBay, I don't know for how long, but probably for an 1/10th of the price that someone else paid at demand times. I replace broken equipment, not repair it, and that costs me less.
When eBay "stocks" will end or I decide to change the platform, that will be easy.

Photography tools will ALWAYS be available.

 

[Jack]

Good point. I suspect there are a few folks out there still driving Ramblers and DeSoto's and they disappeared several years ago...

 

[Guy Mancuso]

I think the real trick here is ignore this stuff and use your gear until you either want to move to something else or run it into the ground and get the most out of it. There should be plenty of Sinar gear around for the next 3 years anyway new or used to supplement any parts you may need. Service should be around and cross your fingers and hope all goes well. Very little can go wrong with a back, very little. Plenty of backup camera's out there on the used market to sustain you. I know in Mamiya if Phase happen to crook the untimely I could survive a long time just on used bodies. Just keep plugging along

 

[Graham Mitchell]

Personally I'm feeling better about the future of Sinar than a week or two ago. There are clearly new plans and changes, which is not the sign of a company about to close its doors. What we don't know is the future of specific product lines.

 

[BradleyGibson]

I think the real trick here is ignore this stuff and use your gear until you either want to move to something else or run it into the ground and get the most out of it... I could survive a long time just on used bodies.

Hear hear, Guy.

-Brad

 

[etrump]

These actions are inevitable in the current marketplace. What I see is Sinar dealing with the realities on the ground. They must transition their business model and operational costs in order to maintain profitability or at least break even until things improve.

It could be that they will not succeed and we will be left with 2 players. The players left standing will be in a better position to withstand the worst economy in our lifetimes.

If Sinar is to succeed they can't wait until there is little hope like F&H. They were at the point of desperation even before the economy really turned south. How long did it take them to final produce a sellable Hy6 after announcement. Similar to Mamiya with their ZD and new glass. Those delays simply mean they didn't have the cash to develop the products people wanted to buy. By the time they were in a position to produce sellable product they didn't have the cash to meet demand and credit was simply not available, due to the economic situation, to pull them through. Had they been ready 2 years earlier things might have been a lot different.

Sinar has sellable products, is well respected in addition to having production rights to the Hy6. Are they in the same position as F&H in terms of profitability? Maybe but hopefully not.

I laugh when I hear the banter about Hasselblad and Phase One. To me, most if this is baseless ranting. Both companies have excellent products, well established marketing channels, and devoted customers. Hasselblad is a couple years ahead of Phase/Mamiya in terms of camera functionality but both systems have strengths and weaknesses. Let's not forget that Hasselblad is the one cutting prices not Phase One and Mamiya is selling cameras and glass.

 

[PeterA]

I am asking myself - where exactly would I be - without the benfit of all this wise advice?


Thanks Gents - I will definately sleep easier knowing that I can always use what I own..it is truly a remarkabkle observation.! Trully insightful thinking.:ROTFL::ROTFL::ROTFL:

 

[Guy Mancuso]

I am asking myself - where exactly would I be - without the benfit of all this wise advice?


Thanks Gents - I will definately sleep easier knowing that I can always use what I own..it is truly a remarkabkle observation.! Trully insightful thinking.:ROTFL::ROTFL::ROTFL:

Hate to say I told you so.

Seriously whatever you have in your hands will last at least 3 years in digital life before you may want something else and in that time you still can get all the parts and service you need to support it. By than I know for a fact you will buy something else , in fact I'm willing to wager the farm on it. :ROTFL::ROTFL::ROTFL:

And that includes the tractor bud

 

[PeterA]

hahahah Guy - well as you might remember I tested an early body down here, with a Schneider auto focus 80mm and the Sinar 75 back - and had a bit of a running argument with Thierry a couple of years ago over the issue...

OK no BS - why am I upset at prospect of Sinar being collateral damage and going out of business?

Well after shooting with the Sinar back/Hy6 and 5 Schnieder and Zeiss Rollie mount lenses ( a few months now) - all I can say is that this glass 'draws' better than any other MF glass I have ever used. In focus POPS and OOF is smooth like butter my acid test - rendering green foliage background - teh rollie glass rules better than anything - even Lieca in this test...- the Rollie mount Zeiss 110 I actually prefer to the Hasselblad mount version in F/FE form ( I own both) teh 180 2.8 - a dream lens..the 40mm? - most under rated wide out there

The Sinar 75LV r back - the cleanest pure files I have ever worked with - no dicky prepackaged precanned look you get from other makers ( which you have to spend time eliminating before starting afresh) For sure you have to know how to use the back and software..rotating back? I never thought I would use it - how stupid was I!! it is a fantastic feature..

I use the Sinar back on Hy6/Contax/RZ/Hasselblad V - via a simple mount change system - it is the most user friendly digi/film thing out there..

Wanna shoot landscapes with corrected perspective with near and far in focus - with the best glass money can buy? stuff that shames MF lenses for contrast/resolution - the arTec..

I could go on and on...thats why I don't want this company to go down..we would all be poorer and have far less options..thats why I am grumpy lately..not teh paper devaluations ( who cares) but I just hate the thought of Sinar going down...

So of course lets use what we own and enjoy being alive!

PS - if you ever get down here - i will let you drive my big boy..it has auto drive feature for you city slickers -

Cheers
Pete

 

[MMPhoto]

hi friends,

I do agree we you Pete, it would be a great lost for the photography community if Sinar would fold. I may say that it won't happen since they are Swiss, as my ex partner explain to me. Folding is a major failure for the Swiss and not seen very well by the Swiss peoples. Compare to here in North America.

Later All, Michel

 

[David K]

hahahah Guy - well as you might remember I tested an early body down here, with a Schneider auto focus 80mm and the Sinar 75 back - and had a bit of a running argument with Thierry a couple of years ago over the issue...

OK no BS - why am I upset at prospect of Sinar being collateral damage and going out of business?

Well after shooting with the Sinar back/Hy6 and 5 Schnieder and Zeiss Rollie mount lenses ( a few months now) - all I can say is that this glass 'draws' better than any other MF glass I have ever used. In focus POPS and OOF is smooth like butter my acid test - rendering green foliage background - teh rollie glass rules better than anything - even Lieca in this test...- the Rollie mount Zeiss 110 I actually prefer to the Hasselblad mount version in F/FE form ( I own both) teh 180 2.8 - a dream lens..the 40mm? - most under rated wide out there

The Sinar 75LV r back - the cleanest pure files I have ever worked with - no dicky prepackaged precanned look you get from other makers ( which you have to spend time eliminating before starting afresh) For sure you have to know how to use the back and software..rotating back? I never thought I would use it - how stupid was I!! it is a fantastic feature..

I use the Sinar back on Hy6/Contax/RZ/Hasselblad V - via a simple mount change system - it is the most user friendly digi/film thing out there..

Wanna shoot landscapes with corrected perspective with near and far in focus - with the best glass money can buy? stuff that shames MF lenses for contrast/resolution - the arTec..

I could go on and on...thats why I don't want this company to go down..we would all be poorer and have far less options..thats why I am grumpy lately..not teh paper devaluations ( who cares) but I just hate the thought of Sinar going down...

So of course lets use what we own and enjoy being alive!

PS - if you ever get down here - i will let you drive my big boy..it has auto drive feature for you city slickers -

Cheers
Pete

Damn, Peter, if I didn't already have this kit I'd go out and buy it

 

[dougpeterson]

I do agree we you Pete, it would be a great lost for the photography community if Sinar would fold. I may say that it won't happen since they are Swiss, as my ex partner explain to me. Folding is a major failure for the Swiss and not seen very well by the Swiss peoples. Compare to here in North America.

Somewhere Ayn Rand just rolled in her grave.

 

[BradleyGibson]

Peter waxes poetic on the gentle and gorgeous tendering of the Schneider lenses. As the one who sold the Hy6 kit to him I am mostly inclined to agree.

I think the Schneider Super-Angulon 40mm PQ is a match for any medium format retrofocus wide angle on the market, even the Zeiss CFE 40/4 IF. They give somewhat different results, but each has its strengths, and the Schmeider's is certianly in it's rendering and bokeh.

But not all the lenses were stellar-- IMHO, the 80/2 was one of the weaker optics, even stopped down.

When I hear about the 110/2 drawing so much
more nicely than the Zeiss, I believe it may be that the Sinar back/software is imparting a look. I'd need to see the same scene shot on the same back with the two different lenses to be sure (something I did not get a chance to do).

As for the Sinar back, it was the weak point of the system for me. I did find myself fighting the back often for image review, CF card storage in the field and changing white balance. Most painful though, was the workflow involved in getting the files the back generates into a useable raw file format. I found wild variations in the greens/yellows that were difficult to fix, depending on whether I'd used eXposure or Brumbaer to create DNGs.

With some more time to mature the software and hardware and a rev of the back I do think the Hy6 would have been one of the most compelling systems in MF photography.

-Brad

 

[PeterA]

I think commentary on software is even more qualitative and subjective in nature than descriptions about lenses and camera bodies. For me Exposure is missing only a couple of features that I can do without. The actual raw processing and DNG file delivery is elegant and easy. However what is very important to me is the fact that Sinar software produces the best correction for pink magenta caste when I use it on the Alpa and hopefully the arTec in due course. Colours are the most natural and most easilly white balanced corrected from backs I own and use - including Phase One/H3D11-39 and ( my favourit CFV11)

I agree that the Sinar back menu system is at the margin clunkier than Hasselblad's and Phase One backs. Again - no biggy. As for the 80 - I dont use that focal length much. I also agree that capture One and Phocuys are very much more full featured - however again - I dont need most of the features.

Happy to wax poetic about lens drawing - because that is the type of photograph I like to make - more painterly than not. To be perfectly frank - I woudl use an arTec or an Alpa for landscape work - as I prefer wide angle near and far captures and nodal point panoramas - rather than flat stitches so the Hy6 doesnt get much workout here.

Every system has its strengths and weaknesses - but the Schneiders were a revelation to me. My hasselblad H system and lenses is till the benchmark for the best DSLR MFD overall experience - there is no doubt about in my mind.

If a person needs 40/50/60 megapixels Sinar doesnt make these megapixels so that pretty much chops out teh latest and greatest market. Again - I am happy to stop @ 40 megapixels as i prefer larer rather than smaller pixel pitches. Why? Because ew have hit the practicla limits of lens resolving ability in real world use - simple as that.

Anyway lets see what happens with Sinar. Cheers and happy shooting everyone - I am packing for a 2 week sailing holiday in teh Mediterannean - cant make up mind between my M8 gear and just an Alpa with one lens.

 

[BradleyGibson]

The software issues I raise are actually quite measureable. You can measure the yellow/green problem quite easily with a Gretag MacBeth chart. As for the batch DNG conversion headaches, the application would crash if more than ~100 items were queued at once.

I'm not here to beat up on Sinar or eXposure. All of the issues I've raised are fixable (and many may have been in the months since I've left the Sinar family). In fact, Sinar provided me with hands down the best customer service and support while I owned the camera that I've received since coming to medium format. Exceptional, really. But I just wanted folks to understand that my Hy6 experience, although good, wasn't quite as rosy.

A little more time and maturity could have made the difference.

I'm jealous--your holiday sounds awesome!

Take care,
-Brad

 

[fotografz]

I think commentary on software is even more qualitative and subjective in nature than descriptions about lenses and camera bodies. For me Exposure is missing only a couple of features that I can do without. The actual raw processing and DNG file delivery is elegant and easy. However what is very important to me is the fact that Sinar software produces the best correction for pink magenta caste when I use it on the Alpa and hopefully the arTec in due course. Colours are the most natural and most easilly white balanced corrected from backs I own and use - including Phase One/H3D11-39 and ( my favourit CFV11)

I agree that the Sinar back menu system is at the margin clunkier than Hasselblad's and Phase One backs. Again - no biggy. As for the 80 - I dont use that focal length much. I also agree that capture One and Phocuys are very much more full featured - however again - I dont need most of the features.

Happy to wax poetic about lens drawing - because that is the type of photograph I like to make - more painterly than not. To be perfectly frank - I woudl use an arTec or an Alpa for landscape work - as I prefer wide angle near and far captures and nodal point panoramas - rather than flat stitches so the Hy6 doesnt get much workout here.

Every system has its strengths and weaknesses - but the Schneiders were a revelation to me. My hasselblad H system and lenses is till the benchmark for the best DSLR MFD overall experience - there is no doubt about in my mind.

If a person needs 40/50/60 megapixels Sinar doesnt make these megapixels so that pretty much chops out teh latest and greatest market. Again - I am happy to stop @ 40 megapixels as i prefer larer rather than smaller pixel pitches. Why? Because ew have hit the practicla limits of lens resolving ability in real world use - simple as that.

Anyway lets see what happens with Sinar. Cheers and happy shooting everyone - I am packing for a 2 week sailing holiday in teh Mediterannean - cant make up mind between my M8 gear and just an Alpa with one lens.

The M8 ...

 

[Paratom]

The software issues I raise are actually quite measureable. You can measure the yellow/green problem quite easily with a Gretag MacBeth chart. As for the batch DNG conversion headaches, the application would crash if more than ~100 items were queued at once.

I'm not here to beat up on Sinar or eXposure. All of the issues I've raised are fixable (and many may have been in the months since I've left the Sinar family). In fact, Sinar provided me with hands down the best customer service and support while I owned the camera that I've received since coming to medium format. Exceptional, really. But I just wanted folks to understand that my Hy6 experience, although good, wasn't quite as rosy.

A little more time and maturity could have made the difference.

I'm jealous--your holiday sounds awesome!

Take care,
-Brad

Brad,
from your measuring, which software seemed more correct?

 

[BradleyGibson]

Definitely eXposure, but remember these were DNG conversions. So Adobe Lightroom (not exactly known for its out-of-the-box color capability) did the demosaicing.

Whoever was messing up the color (and I honestly don't know who's issue it was), the color correction required was non-trivial.

But even the colors from eXposure in the green-yellow area were not right; while adjusting the color wasn't hard (just time-consuming), the whole 'unfinished file' from the back was really the problem. It was incredibly time-consuming to deal with large numbers of images (due to crashes), multiple folders (since only one can be selected at a time).

The post-shoot workflow was one of my top issues with the platform--it was certainly doable, but could have been so much less time-consuming--that is what frustrated me, personally.

The good news is that this issue (software) was very fixable, and subsequent backs like the eSprit 65 were beginning to deliver finished .DNGs. This is why I say that a bit more time to mature would have really helped the platform.

-Brad