Official USA Pricing for Leica S2

[jonoslack]

I'd say there are plenty of indications that the (higher end) DSLR market is going for higher image quality and not just megapixels or bells&whistles. A900, 5DII, D3x, D3, D700, to name a few.

Well, I would agree that the A900 seems to be heroically sacrificing high ISO for the sake of general IQ - but not the D3 and D700 - in comparison I'm still upset when I look back at the thousands of shots I took with those cameras. To me they are both excellent . . . and soulless, added to which I never could get the yellows and greens right for nature. I can't comment on the 5DII or the D3x as I haven't used them.

 

[robmac]

Quite right - on both counts

Robert White ain't cheap though. You can get much better. Leica, foot, pull trigger.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Right now maybe a good time to be a Phase / Hassy dealer. Sorry folks this is so overpriced you would seriously need to have your head examined to consider this option. Not a lens under 4k is just amazing. Cheapest route for a 4 lens kit is 50k no matter how you slice it up. I feel for the Leica dealers, how much BS do you have to lay out for someone to even consider this. I have yet to see one person on 5 forums actually say they are still on the waiting list and buying. I could buy a P65+ today and 4 lenses and still have change to buy a Nikon to support it. This is just flat out SAD.

It just confirmed my purchase though and at this point I am squarely looking at upgrading to the P40+ or be happy as a clam with my P30+ which I expect a huge rush on sales for it and the H3/31 now. These backs are so close to a 40 mpx back it really makes not much of a difference quality wise. You all seen the tests i have done and once you hit this level it is about features, not IQ which is clearly there .

 

[carstenw]

Of course everything else isn't equal. But still, it would be a mistake to not compare to 24x36 DSLRs, as they will be in 2010 or 2011. How do you compare a price point of $3K to $25K for body only?

You don't. Start by looking at the pro models, the 1Ds3 and D3x, both of which are around $8k, and compare that to the naked S2 with normal warranty at $23k. Still a lot more, but you also get more. The price scale was never linear, and it will continue not being linear.

 

[carstenw]

The official UK price (see bottom of 'Leica S2 Pricing' thread or the DPR release last night) for the S2 is 16K Pounds, w/15% VAT.

The current price for a new H3DII-50 (like the S2, body only) from Robert White is 16K pounds ex VAT (15%).

The price of an H3DII-31 KIT (with lens) from RW? just under 10K pounds, ex VAT.

The H3DII-39 with 80mm lens and VAT is £16100. There is no price given without the lens. I don't want to get into whether the lenses are equivalent, so mentally deduct a little for the lens. The S2 is £16000. I would say that the prices are extremely close, with the Hasselblad being a little cheaper. Leica always said that they would be competitive with similar products. I think they have delivered that.

Another issue is whether the price is realistic. It is out of my reach, but that is not hard

 

[KeithL]

After all the interest evident on GetDPI in the S2 what will be really interesting to see is who is actually going to put their hand in their pocket and buy into the system.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

The H3DII-39 with 80mm lens and VAT is £16100. There is no price given without the lens. I don't want to get into whether the lenses are equivalent, so mentally deduct a little for the lens. The S2 is £16000. I would say that the prices are extremely close, with the Hasselblad being a little cheaper. Leica always said that they would be competitive with similar products. I think they have delivered that.

Another issue is whether the price is realistic. It is out of my reach, but that is not hard

Carsten not so sure anything is even reasonable close a brand new H3/39 with lens is about 21k in the states and so is a P40+ with lens and body. This starts way above those numbers I'm seeing 27500 for a S2 with the cheapest lens and not a P body. That's over 6k off the mark.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

After all the interest evident on GetDPI in the S2 what will be really interesting to see is who is actually going to put their hand in their pocket and buy into the system.

I can tell you I know two owners of GetDPI are not even reaching for there pocket.:ROTFL::ROTFL::ROTFL:

 

[Lars]

You don't. Start by looking at the pro models, the 1Ds3 and D3x, both of which are around $8k, and compare that to the naked S2 with normal warranty at $23k. Still a lot more, but you also get more. The price scale was never linear, and it will continue not being linear.

That's today (or last year). S2 product life must span 2010-2011 considering no realistic possibility of high volume - in that timeframe we'll surely see a number of DSLRs at the $3K pricepoint that take image quality further.

 

[Lars]

Well, I would agree that the A900 seems to be heroically sacrificing high ISO for the sake of general IQ - but not the D3 and D700 - in comparison I'm still upset when I look back at the thousands of shots I took with those cameras. To me they are both excellent . . . and soulless, added to which I never could get the yellows and greens right for nature. I can't comment on the 5DII or the D3x as I haven't used them.

D3 at ISO 3200 vs D2x at ISO 3200 isn't IQ improvement? Re colors, all Nikon shooters don't have that problem.

 

[Seascape]

The CFV 39 option is looking very attractive :thumbup:

 

[KeithL]

I can tell you I know two owners of GetDPI are not even reaching for there pocket.:ROTFL::ROTFL::ROTFL:

That makes three of us then

 

[jonoslack]

D3 at ISO 3200 vs D2x at ISO 3200 isn't IQ improvement? Re colors, all Nikon shooters don't have that problem.

No - they don't all shoot nature and especially evening light either.
Lars - we're using a different definition of IQ, and of course I'm only voicing my opinion.
I reckon there is a substantial difference in 'feel' between files from cameras which have been optimised for high ISO, and those that haven't.
As for the difference between 3200 on the D3 and the D2x, of course, it's huge, and it's a major achievement, but I'm not interested in 3200 ISO, and it isn't what I was talking about.

 

[TRSmith]

Strictly an amateur here, but with dreams of the S2 since it was announced. I'm crushed. At $15k I might still be drooling and on the hook. But at these prices, there's not a snowball's chance in hell. I hope someone buys one though. There's the real potential of it becoming a collector's item simply for the novelty and rarity of the thing down the road. Regardless of the image quality.

 

[gogopix]

Well, for once I wish I had been wrong... here's a quote from an entry I made a few months back on the S2 vs D3 etc thread....


"......don't know if you need a new thread, but a lot of speculation, on what price SHOULD be. Based on Back prices,and remembering that you are getting camera and 'back', $20,000 rather than $15,000 seems like a more reasonable 'floor'.
I don't think anyone would argue with a new Leica camera being $5,000. A 40MP bacK, $20,000 for SOTA would not be unreasonale, so my bet is

$22,500.

........

Victor

PS We'll see. There are still so many $10,000,000 houses around (and selling) so $50,000 is a drop in the bucket

...but I doubt any are pros (except the next Warhol)

 

[carstenw]

True, Guy, but the lens is not necessarily equivalent, so I think it is more fair to compare body prices, and they are very close. The true test of course is to look at the kit you need, and compare full prices. I won't be buying anyway, so this is a moot point for me.

 

[Woody Campbell]

I'll stand pat with my MF system for a while (H3D 39 + 28, 80, 100, 150 and extender, plus legacy CZ 40 CLE and 50 CLE). If after watching the reviews and perhaps renting one it looks like the Leica system delivers more in terms of image quality or image charisma I'll consider it. I also need to see whether Leica delivers on service - Hasselblad's service is superb.



I occasionally shoot book jackets or author photos. I shot a book jacket image of an author earlier this week, using mainly the H3d + 100 and an M8.2 + 75 Lux. Out of several hundred images all of the finalists selected by the client were from the Leica.

Maybe its just me - maybe I'm just a natural range finder shooter. I've never loved the H3D'a ergonomics. But the point of the story is that it's premature to count Leica out.

 

[espressogeek]

I just bought a Contax 645 and this makes that old Contax seem golden. I can put a P25 or similar sized sensor on there and I'm good to go.

Perhaps this thing will flop and I will be able to pick up one down the road six years from now at a substantial discount. I would LOVE to have one but I can't justify this price.

 

[BradleyGibson]

I'll join in and say I'm disappointed as well. While I had no immediate plans to go the S2 route (I'm still on the fence with the monobody concept), $23K for "only" 37.5 MP is pricing from a year ago.

There are jokes about Leica selling these to dentists, but seriously--I cannot understand who they plan to sell to in quantity at these prices.

Sad, too, because the MF market isn't exactly at its most robust, and I can't see Leica moving many of these, which does not bode well for the system. The glass seems delicious, but I suppose I won't be tasting.

-Brad

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

There are people out there, I don't know if "photographers" is the right term, who buy a D3X and a 200mm f/2.0 to take photos of their cats and dogs (check Nikoncafe.com and try to understand), and if Leica can convince enough dentists and lawyers that this will be an instant classic, they will have no problems selling a few thousand of these. A company that can sell a white rangefinder camera for a premium price because it's white, can do things like that.

As for "real" photographers, the situation is different, but not impossible. If I could afford it, I would clearly prefer the S2 to any traditional MF camera, simply because I feel more comfortable with the form factor and the fact that it seems more robust. And if there are others thinking like me, people who can afford this kind of camera, they will probably buy the Leica, because it's a camera they can live with.

Hopefully, Leica has done their homework. My guess is that many of these cameras will be sold in Asia and the Middle East, at least to start with. That's where the money is these days.