It's 10 pages since David Farkas opened this thread and let it run without further input.
David - Most of us here have probably followed your enthusiasm for the S2 project [many of us will have read your blog]. I'm sure you are still reading - fancy sharing your thoughts with us?
............. Chris
Sure Chris.... why not?
The reasons for my absence are twofold.
1) I have been extremely busy during the last few days. I spent all of Thursday, Friday, and Saturday touching base with my S2 pre-order list. I just haven't had the time to read everything or post. In fact, I've only been able to get through 2/3rds of my list.
2) Even if I did have the time, many are so entrenched in their viewpoints that little or nothing I might have said would really matter. My input would be conveniently dismissed as "marketing hype" or "bs" or whatever.
That being said, I'm sure some here are interested to know how my conversations over the last few days have gone. Maybe I live in a bubble, but my reality has not coincided with what is happening online. Of all my pre-orders, no one was insulted, offended, shocked, etc. by the S2 pricing. In fact, no one backed out or cancelled due to price. All those that were interested in getting an S2, are still excited to get one in October. There are a couple who will wait for the 30-90 to be available. Everyone wants to see final specs (within a week or two) and see real images, just as I do. But, the price was expected. Part of this was due to my comminicating a realistic price for last 6-9 months in all my conversations. I told anyone who asked that the price would be about $20K for the body and about $4-6K for the lenses. I've seen the Euro go from about $1.25 to the current $1.43. Leica told me that at anything above $1.35, they'd have to adjust pricing. So, the 10-15% higher price for the body was somewhat expected.
Leica has clearly stated that fashion, beauty, advertising, and commercial are the main target markets, as well as advanced amateurs who want the best balance of ease, handling, and image quailty. In reviewing my list, I'd say that Leica has so far done a good job, as I have representation from all of these specialties, as well as high-end professional landscape photographers (those shooting for coffee-table books and grand-format commercial prints sold through galleries and/or corporate decorators).
There appears to be some confusion over the warranty and add-on service packages. To clarify, the body and lenses come with a standard 12-month warranty (same as a Phase Classic warranty or standard Hasselblad warranty). The service packages are optional add-ons just like Hassy's Camera Care Plan or Phase's Value Added Warranty, which also cost several thousand $$.
The Premium Service Package includes:
- Extra year of transferable warranty
- Camera swap service during the first three months (no repairs, just a new camera the next day)
- Special phone hotline with dedicated S2 specialist
- guaranteed spare parts availibility for 6 years
- 30% discount on non-warranty repairs (ex. dropping camera)
The Platinum Service Package includes:
(same as above), plus...
- free of charge maintenance including one shutter and/or central shutter replacement (doesn't have to be broken)
- free of charge loaner service during repairs
Keep in mind, also, that customers who purchase from me can get loaners or rentals from me at no charge regardless of service level, and can reach me 24/7 for help and support. That is just being a good dealer, rather than a box mover. I'd say that the Premium package is plenty for most individual shooters. The Platinum is geared more towards rental studios and busy top-tier professionals. $495 for lenses and $1,495 for the body isn't really that unreasonable for the Premium option.
Yes, Lightroom will come bundled with the camera. There will also be tethering software that can control all functions of the camera, including camera focus, all settings, etc. The application doesn't do RAW conversion, but rather controls the camera and deposits images in whatever folder you choose. Hot-folder-capable applications like LR, Aperture, or even C1 can be used - this is the user's choice.
As to why Leica didn't bundle the 70mm with the camera, you might be interested to learn that only about 50% of my customers chose to order the 70mm with the camera. The fact is that everyone is different. How would you feel about being required to buy an M8.2 with a 35mm Summicron? Sure, a certain percentage would like it (like me), but most would prefer to pick their own lens package. Same with the S2.
Regarding switching from other systems, I have taken trade-ins on two H3DII-39s, one H3DII-31, one H3DII-50, a D3x, and many other assorted items. Other customers have already sold H3DII-39 systems, at least one P45+, and Canon/Nikon systems to fund the S2. So, obviously, for these folks, there is enough reason to switch platforms.
The reality is that we will see final specs within the next week or two and images before camera availibility. Of course, no one wants to drop $30K on a system without seeing images. But, most know what to expect:
- Lenses without compromise that can be shot at any aperture (not just f/11)
- The smallest, lightest, fastest MF system and the only one with weather sealing in a fully modern body
- 1/500th of a sec flash sync with CS lenses and 1/400th of a sec max shutter with FP shutter (easy as flipping a switch)
- Large, bright, hi-res LCD
- Accurate AF (that doesn't require a 3x loupe)
- Minimal mirror slap
If you've handled the S2 for any amount of time and have experience with other MF systems, you can immediately tell a difference. Since switching to SSDs in my new laptop, I can't ever imaging going back to a platter-based HDD. It would be painful. Likewise, I think that once photographers start using the S2 they will have a very difficult time going back to other systems. Maybe they get the job done, but not as smoothly and seamlessly as they might with the S2.
As Jono and others have said, if the IQ is there (in addition to the ergos), the camera will indeed sell. And, sell very well at that. Leica's imminent demise is grossly overstated.
I am not trying to "sell" you guys on the S2. I honestly think that the camera has done a great job of selling itself already. It is not for everyone, just as a $40K P65+ isn't for everyone, or an $11K Profoto Pro-8a power pack, or an $11K Profoto 10' Para Umbrella, etc. I know that many would like to have a chance to use the S2, and would like the price to be under $15K. I'd like a Porsche Cayman S to be the same price as an Accord, but I doubt going on a Porsche forum and convincing everyone there that the Cayman should sell for $25K is going to change anything. A Porsche is a Porsche and priced as such. Likewise, the S2 offers a certain value proposition to photographers and is also priced accordingly.
David
