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Official USA Pricing for Leica S2

carstenw

Active member
explain to me how a grip can cost $1295.00
Well, the grip on the 1Ds3 costs about $5500, comparing to the 5D2 ;)

I think $1295 is quite reasonable, considering that it is made with magic from mythrill by ancient gnomes in the deepest caverns below the Harz mountains :)
 

KurtKamka

Subscriber Member
Wow ... hard to make it through this whole thread in a day.

The S2 may not be in my immediate future now that there are M9 rumors flying, but, a few years down the road I'd definitely be interested. If anything, this financial crisis has us all looking more carefully at the payback/depreciation curve a little more carefully.

Getting beyond the initial price discussion, I'm of the mind that the S2 will do well. Like most others here, I have used every form of Canon and Nikon body over the past five years as well as a MFDB. If there aren't any blatant DOH! moments like the IR issue, end users who care about image quality will probably take note of what the S2 in all likelihood will deliver. Why? Because, while Leica engineers may be obstinate and hard to understand at times, they have proven themselves as having a great eye for final image quality. Simply put, the DMR and M8 deliver the IQ goods. And, when you add autofocus Leica lenses to the equation ... I'll be paying attention.

As a side-note, having tried a few of Leica's newest M lenses, I'm of the opinion that their lenses keep getting better. The new 21lux is killer. Expensive ... but, still killer. Even the modestly priced summarits are strong lenses.

Relatively speaking, the S2 is certainly a lot more expensive than a lot of other options. But, and here's the rub, if you're obsessed with the extra few percentage points of image quality ... and, there is a user base out there that is interested, they'll swallow hard and pay the price.

Kurt
 

gogopix

Subscriber
I'd put it this way. We are not now in an economic climate for quality at any price. What is needed is good enough for my application at the right price. Clients don't pay for what they can't use so photographers who want to stay solvent better match equipment purchases to what clients are actually paying for.
.....
Your point is well taken- we all make choices. However, there is a difference between saying something is of high quality, and then complaining that it is not affordable. Companies and products like Leica, Four Seasons, Mercedes, organic foods brick vs siding houses will either sell to those who appreciate the quality, or they will go out of business because comparable quality is available cheaper from someone else. We have had a lot of experience in this country with stuff that 'just works' then breaks (cars), or falls down (300,000 bridges) or tastes like paper (strip mined tomatoes)

To rail that Leica is doing 'badly' by photographers simply because the price is too high doesn't make sense. Several here have pointed to the R&D needed to bring a product as the S2 to market-they marvel it is similar to a Hasselblad. We need to see if it matches or beats hasseies. If the latter then the price is fair. Leica might still have trouble but many will go for the quality.

I am astonished the length of a thread where most are basically yelling at a company for just trying to do its business. Why not wait and have a real debate-quality vs price. Right now the assumption is 'high price for a glorified Nikon" rather than "too bad not cheaper at higher quality than Hasselblad."

Victor
 

dfarkas

Workshop Member
Well, the grip on the 1Ds3 costs about $5500, comparing to the 5D2 ;)

I think $1295 is quite reasonable, considering that it is made with magic from mythrill by ancient gnomes in the deepest caverns below the Harz mountains :)
In all seriousness.... the hand grip isn't the usual plastic N/C job for $299. It is made of magnesium alloy, same as the camera. No inconvenient screw-in wheel to fuss with (that comes loose anyway), just a single spring-loaded slider. One handed, you can slide the release over, put the grip on the camera, then release and the grip is locked on securely. Just as easy to remove with one hand, as well. Also keep in mind that even with the hand grip attached, the camera (and grip) remains fully weather-sealed.

David
 

Steve Hendrix

Well-known member
At the risk of getting people's knickers in a twist (is that right?): you could argue that the Leica Platinum service option is a bargain compared to the Phase version. After all, Phase backs rarely fail, so they keep more of the money. You might well get your money's worth from the Leica plan. :angel:

Yes but much of the money that's paid for Phase One Value Add Warranties is applied to maintaining inventory that just sits on the shelf waiting for something bad to happen. So regardless of the rate of failure, a large part of the cost incurred by Phase One is in the form of "just in case" insurance.


Steve Hendrix
Sales Manager
Capture Integration
 

gogopix

Subscriber
Yes but much of the money that's paid for Phase One Value Add Warranties is applied to maintaining inventory that just sits on the shelf waiting for something bad to happen. So regardless of the rate of failure, a large part of the cost incurred by Phase One is in the form of "just in case" insurance.


Steve Hendrix
Sales Manager
Capture Integration
well, only to a certain extent. In a recent warranty visit my P65+ made to Denmark, I was provided a P45+ loaner. I thought the idea was a loaner of the same back
 

jonoslack

Active member
I am astonished the length of a thread where most are basically yelling at a company for just trying to do its business. Why not wait and have a real debate-quality vs price. Right now the assumption is 'high price for a glorified Nikon" rather than "too bad not cheaper at higher quality than Hasselblad."

Victor
:clap::clap::clap:
 

PeterA

Well-known member
Jack no worries - dont confuse me with a person endowed with a thin skin :ROTFL:

We are all pretty much of the same opinion - lets wait and see - because too many of us have been singed by past experience(s)..

Guy - no need to apologise - we are all old dogs in here..

Price is an important issue - but for me - I have serious questions about the actuall quality - that is the real issue for me rather than a few thousand here or there. The actual cost of extra warranty makes the hairs on the back of my neck stand up ...and the radar sirens start blurting out at high DBs.

As for Hasselblad and Phase One - I have no interest in their business models anymore. I am not going to pay mega bucks for marginal increases in real world utility - to me the rumoured M9 is of far more interest than anything from anyone else out there closely followed by the RED new chips and technology..yeah i would pay big bucks for a 617 chip - and ditch every MFD system I currently own for the pleasure of that. it is revolutionary technology.
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
I am astonished the length of a thread where most are basically yelling at a company for just trying to do its business. Why not wait and have a real debate-quality vs price. Right now the assumption is 'high price for a glorified Nikon" rather than "too bad not cheaper at higher quality than Hasselblad."
Victor,

You make a fair point. My apologies if it seemed I was "yelling" at Leica. Speaking for myself, I want Leica to hit a huge home run with the S2. I want it to be the best MF digital camera out there. For sure, it will be in a class of its own.

The thing I am fearing on the S2 release is that the homework may not get properly done ahead of time. And if that is the case in this economy, it could spell doom for the system before it can ever gain legs. Then I see any response to the S2 other than glowing could (will?) significantly impair production of the R10 and M9, both products I want to see make it to market soon and as a huge hit...

Cheers,
 

Steve Hendrix

Well-known member
well, only to a certain extent. In a recent warranty visit my P65+ made to Denmark, I was provided a P45+ loaner. I thought the idea was a loaner of the same back

Victor

I agree loaners should match the disabled patient. Frequently with newer products - or backordered products - they sometimes do not. This is fairly common with many manufacturers, though it should not be. At the least, anyone purchasing a product that is new where there is a chance that a loaner may not match what they have should be notified in writing by the manufacturer of that possibility at the time of purchase.

It's something manufacturers typically don't want to admit to. But it's the right thing to do and customers would appreciate the honesty.

By the way I agree with you also (to return to topic) that the hullabaloo over the Leica S2 pricing is misplaced or over dramatized. Compared to existing medium format offerings, the cost is higher, but not outrageously so, and it is a Leica product after all. I believe photographers who hold dear what Leica is known for will purchase (those who can afford it). In other words, the more well heeled of Leica's traditional market.

However, it seems that Leica is attempting to draw success with the professional market as well, and this is a different puppy. I'm not sold that Leica will succeed there and I don't think anyone will know until we see rubber meet the road. That said, I have the feeling Leica is counting on being successful with their traditional market and anything extra is gravy.


Steve Hendrix
Sales Manager
Capture Integration
 

steflaurent974

Active member
I am quite surprized of all these reactions here. The S2 is really expensive that is sure. But am I wrong or these view camera kit with a digital back with large format digital lens kit are far more expensive no ?

I know the use is not the same, but I have the feeling that some people in this forum have put a lot of money in MF system that are now a bit "old' (digitally speaking) and the crisis and the low dollar value exclude them from the game.

If the business go on, many could change their mind...

Anyway a good photo is first a good photograph...Think of the great classical pictures who have been shot with a point and shoot !!!

Sure, I love gear !!!! But since I am a Leica afficionados, I have never seen something affordable in this brand ! I personnaly won't go for this system as it's not my personnal shooting style...but who knows ???
 

thomas

New member
I am quite surprized of all these reactions here. The S2 is really expensive that is sure. But am I wrong or these view camera kit with a digital back with large format digital lens kit are far more expensive no ?
of course. But tech cameras in particular are more a long time investment. You don't like to "upgrade" the entire unit rather than just the back. Image you'd have to swap an entire arTec, Rm3d or F2/F3 unit... every 3 years (or so).
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
I've had a look at the figures that so many are discussing here, and I really don't understand what the fuzz is all about:

A Hasselblad H3DII-50 with a 80mm f/2.8 costs $25,000 (Adorama)
A Leica S2 with 70mm f/2.5 costs $27,500

The Hasselblad has a slightly larger sensor than the Leica and roughly 30% more megapixels. It's a camera that, starting with the H1, has been in production for several years. Camera and lenses are made in Japan by Fuji. Nothing wrong with that, but most Fuji cameras are cheaper than most Leica cameras. It's a rather large camera in traditional MF style and weighs 2,300g with lens.

The Leica weighs almost as much as the Hasselblad with lens, at 2,100g (body 1,300g and lens 800g), but it's considerably more compact. Two bodies and a selection of lenses, ready to shoot, can easily be carried in a moderately sized camera bag. It's also smaller than a Nikon D3X. Body and lenses are weather sealed, and has the form factor of a DSLR, which is preferred by millions of photographers worldwide. There is also a vertical grip available. It's a new design, which means that all development costs are also "new". Camera and lenses are, as far as we know, made in Germany.

The Leica lenses are roughly twice as expensive as the Fujinons for the Hasselblad. Some of the Leicas are faster than the corresponding Fujinons.

Both manufacturers have been on the verge of bankruptcy on at least one occasion each, but both have backing from rather wealthy investors at the moment.

While investment in any camera system, particularly MF, is a rather costly operation, and a newly developed one more so than what has been on the market for a while, I cannot see any big differences here. Both systems have advantages and disadvantages versus each other, and Leica would be rather stupid not to make something different. Leica lenses have always been among the most expensive ones, so no surprises there. Again, Leica would be extremely naive not to cash in on their excellent reputation in this area.

But an entrance ticket that is 10% higher for a new system, compared to one that has been on the market for many years isn't much to write home about if you ask me.

Yes, I know that Mamiya is cheaper, but that's nothing new either. People do buy Leica M7 even if a Bessa is cheaper too, and really does the same job.
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
I also doubt that I personally can justify or afford it in any way any time soon, but I can tell you 100% that if I had the possibility, I would be looking at this camera very seriously.
I might be able to invest the money if I plan/play it right, but I am no way considering the S System instead of the Hasselblad or Phase Systems.

The camera body with fixed built in sensor is the show stopper for me. Not enough flexibility for tech work and for upgrades. Which is imperative at these price levels.
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
I've had a look at the figures that so many are discussing here, and I really don't understand what the fuzz is all about:

A Hasselblad H3DII-50 with a 80mm f/2.8 costs $25,000 (Adorama)
A Leica S2 with 70mm f/2.5 costs $27,500
Jorgen,

this is exactly the point, the H3D2-50 with standard lens is far better in resolution, flexibility of the system and SW and has a proven track record, whereas the S2 is more expensive, less resolution, less flexibility and has no SW coming with it (I am talking about manufacturer generated SW like Phocus or C1Pro) and the support and the reliability of the S System is just in the stars for the next couple of years.
 

fotografz

Well-known member
Jorgen,

this is exactly the point, the H3D2-50 with standard lens is far better in resolution, flexibility of the system and SW and has a proven track record, whereas the S2 is more expensive, less resolution, less flexibility and has no SW coming with it (I am talking about manufacturer generated SW like Phocus or C1Pro) and the support and the reliability of the S System is just in the stars for the next couple of years.
Not to mention that the extended warranty (for at least the H3D-II) is a fraction of the S2 added warranty ... since Hasselblad reduced the price of added service protection.
 

fotografz

Well-known member
Does the S2 and its lenses come with a standard factory warrany or not? Or do you have to choose one of the extra cost warranties? I can't seem to figure this out.

If you have to buy one, then the price is even more than $27,500. for the base kit because no warranty on a new MFD camera is just nuts. Once you've used it for a good number of months or shots with no issues, then the warranty need fades in importance IMHO.
 

fotografz

Well-known member
Wow ... hard to make it through this whole thread in a day.

The S2 may not be in my immediate future now that there are M9 rumors flying, but, a few years down the road I'd definitely be interested. If anything, this financial crisis has us all looking more carefully at the payback/depreciation curve a little more carefully.

Getting beyond the initial price discussion, I'm of the mind that the S2 will do well. Like most others here, I have used every form of Canon and Nikon body over the past five years as well as a MFDB. If there aren't any blatant DOH! moments like the IR issue, end users who care about image quality will probably take note of what the S2 in all likelihood will deliver. Why? Because, while Leica engineers may be obstinate and hard to understand at times, they have proven themselves as having a great eye for final image quality. Simply put, the DMR and M8 deliver the IQ goods. And, when you add autofocus Leica lenses to the equation ... I'll be paying attention.

As a side-note, having tried a few of Leica's newest M lenses, I'm of the opinion that their lenses keep getting better. The new 21lux is killer. Expensive ... but, still killer. Even the modestly priced summarits are strong lenses.

Relatively speaking, the S2 is certainly a lot more expensive than a lot of other options. But, and here's the rub, if you're obsessed with the extra few percentage points of image quality ... and, there is a user base out there that is interested, they'll swallow hard and pay the price.

Kurt
Totally agree Kurt. I'm setting aside my spare and rare pennies for the M9, which I want/desire/need more than yet another MFD solution.
 

jonoslack

Active member
Does the S2 and its lenses come with a standard factory warrany or not? Or do you have to choose one of the extra cost warranties? I can't seem to figure this out.

If you have to buy one, then the price is even more than $27,500. for the base kit because no warranty on a new MFD camera is just nuts. Once you've used it for a good number of months or shots with no issues, then the warranty need fades in importance IMHO.
Can you sell something without warranty in the states?
In Europe there is a legal 2 year standard warranty, whether you like it or not!
 
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