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Best studio portrait lens for Phamiya?

tashley

Subscriber Member
Evening all!

I've spent most of my shooting life avoiding two things: studio lighting and portraits. The only portraits I ever do are friends and family and then in a casual sort of a way.

However I had a gig recently (I posted here for advice) to take an official portrait of the Archbishop of Canterbury so I had to think about what kit to use.

In the end, after taking advice here, I abandoned the M8 and took the more formal of my two shots (a seated 3/4s body and head shot) with the Phamiya/P45+/80D combo on a cubed up Gitzo 3541LS at F5.6 and 1/40th ISO200. And Lo! It was sharp and technically good enough.

I also took a less formal one on a 5DII with 24-105 at ISO1000 and though it is technically less good (still not bad) it is the one they eventually preferred though I believe they are intending to use both.

So I learned a lot from this process. I walked the course first, set up carefully, prepared for the worst (which happened: terrible storm clouds cutting two or three stops off my light) and got few surprises.

It all got me thinking though: I'd like to get really really good at portraits and as part of that process I'd like to get really good at the studio side of things. So I bought some interesting kit and fixed me up a studio and started a project to shoot everyone who visits me.

The glass options I have on the Phamiya are the 80D or an older 150mm F3.5 and they are both very sharp. I started shotting tethered but it does make the subjects rather static so I now use mainly the 80D cos it has AF so i don't have to tether. However, the closer you get the more risk there is of distortion so a longer lens would be better. It needs to be cost-effective, have reliable AF and be thoroughly recommended by people who do a lot of studio based flash work!

BTW I really really like some of the work of Dan Winters. So much studio work looks, to me, over-lit, shiny and unreal whereas his stuff often has a renaissance glow to it that I will now try very hard to copy. Any hints?

Best

Tim
 

carstenw

Active member
The Hasselblad 110mm f/2 is really phenomenal and should work nicely on the Phase. It is manual focus only though. What kind of lens are you looking for?
 

tashley

Subscriber Member
Gotta be AF Carsten: you can't MF, even with studio lights to allow smaller apertures, reliably enough in my experience, unless you make your subject so static that they look static. I use 2 Bowens Gemini 500W lights and will probably add a third so I could get a 750 as the key light and use tighter apertures but in practice I'm aware of diffraction issues/

Ideal lens would be an older lens that has AF, some character, is available second hand and is longer than 80mm and up to 150mm...
 

dogstarnyc

Member
I think the common consensus is the new Mamiya 150mm 2.8 AF D is REALLY sharp, as sharp as the manual 120 macro. But it's new and lots of money,

The beauty of the whole mamiya 645 system is that there are a lot of users out there, maybe buy the AF 150mm 3.5 and try it, I'm very happy with mine and I've moved from an H2 to mamiya.

Try Ebay or KEH or Adorama and if you don't like it pop it on ebay it will sell, in fact I see less and less Mamiya 645 stuff out there now, prices are not dropping.

A good clean 150mm 3.5 AF should cost from $250 to $300.

hope this helps.
 
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tashley

Subscriber Member
I'd need to experiment with DOF on the particular lens. I am finding that with the 80D even at F9 and three metres away I am still getting the tip of the nose OOF when the eye is perfectly focussed.
 

lovep

New member
I love the 105-210 f4.5! My most used lens, and it is crazy sharp!

Next up is the 80mm D...everything else is used less than 5% of the time!

-PL
 

jonoslack

Active member
It all got me thinking though: I'd like to get really really good at portraits and as part of that process I'd like to get really good at the studio side of things. So I bought some interesting kit and fixed me up a studio and started a project to shoot everyone who visits me.
Hi Tim
Have you seen David Bailey's 'democracy'?
 

tashley

Subscriber Member
Hi Tim
Have you seen David Bailey's 'democracy'?
I have now! Thanks for pointing it out: my series is remarkably similar but clothed. Everyone gets the same lighting and a black background, no time to tweak their hair and only a few frames shot... the great leveller!
 

tashley

Subscriber Member
I love the 105-210 f4.5! My most used lens, and it is crazy sharp!

Next up is the 80mm D...everything else is used less than 5% of the time!

-PL
Thanks - I sort of think that's too long for my purposes. DOF is at a premium as it is!


Best

T
 

tashley

Subscriber Member
....maybe buy the AF 150mm 3.5 and try it, I'm very happy with mine and I've moved from an H2 to mamiya.

Try Ebay or KEH or Adorama and if you don't like it pop it on ebay it will sell, in fact I see less and less Mamiya 645 stuff out there now, prices are not dropping.

A good clean 150mm 3.5 AF should cost from $250 to $300.

hope this helps.
Thanks, I'll take a look: I like the non AF version I have though out of the studio it is rather prone to CA...
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
Tim:

For portraits, the 105-210 at f11 up is going to be an excellent performer, and it's pretty cheap on the used market. Warning, there is some variability in performance, so be prepared to trial a few copies -- and while it's very good, don't expect performance equal to your 80 or 150 primes.

The other excellent option -- and my first choice -- would be the 75-150D...

If you want a softer effect, Mamiya makes a manual 145 soft focus lens for the 645. It is stellar for that type of portraiture, though is all manual and has a relatively steep learning curve to exploit it to maximum potential.

Lighting. Sounds like what you are after is possibly a modified (as in not overly harsh) "Rembrandt" style lighting. This is relatively easy to do with 2 strobes or one strobe a good reflector -- just google it.
 

tashley

Subscriber Member
Tim:

For portraits, the 105-210 at f11 up is going to be an excellent performer, and it's pretty cheap on the used market. Warning, there is some variability in performance, so be prepared to trial a few copies -- and while it's very good, don't expect performance equal to your 80 or 150 primes.

The other excellent option -- and my first choice -- would be the 75-150D...

If you want a softer effect, Mamiya makes a manual 145 soft focus lens for the 645. It is stellar for that type of portraiture, though is all manual and has a relatively steep learning curve to exploit it to maximum potential.

Lighting. Sounds like what you are after is possibly a modified (as in not overly harsh) "Rembrandt" style lighting. This is relatively easy to do with 2 strobes or one strobe a good reflector -- just google it.
Thanks on the lenses Jack - I am inclined towards either a 75-150 because it would also be useful out of the studio.

On the lighting, I've just about gotten to grips with the Rembrandt already and it's very nice indeed. But have you seen Dan Winters' work? Especially his Di Caprio but pretty much any of them. The internet is full of people guessing how he does it!

http://www.danwintersphoto.com/two.html

Best

Tim
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
They are not all the same -- small changes to the positioning of the heads can make a huge difference in the final look. His DiCaprio is a modified Rembrandt with a background light -- you can accomplish that on location with two heads and a good reflector. His Tim Burton has a lower, closer, glancing angle to the main head, and the fill reflector moved further away. His Bono moved the main more frontally...
 

robmac

Well-known member
If you like the 150/3.5, the MF 150/2.8 A (ULD glass) is very sharp with better CA control (used on FF DSLR in my case). Mint or NIB out of HK/PRC ebay dealer - $250 ish
 

tashley

Subscriber Member
If you like the 150/3.5, the MF 150/2.8 A (ULD glass) is very sharp with better CA control (used on FF DSLR in my case). Mint or NIB out of HK/PRC ebay dealer - $250 ish
It's great value but I really need AF...
 

tashley

Subscriber Member
They are not all the same -- small changes to the positioning of the heads can make a huge difference in the final look. His DiCaprio is a modified Rembrandt with a background light -- you can accomplish that on location with two heads and a good reflector.
The modification is the head scratcher though: the light is unusual in that it has surprisingly soft edges for such rapid falloff. Seems to be a trademark of his and people are guessing a trillion ways of doing it, mainly involving scrimming, honeycombs, flags, you name it!

There was an article about his work in a magazine here last week and the printed reproductions were quite something!
 

carstenw

Active member
But have you seen Dan Winters' work? Especially his Di Caprio but pretty much any of them. The internet is full of people guessing how he does it!
It looks like a lot of them have a soft box above and to the side of the camera, and a spot about the level of the camera, to the other side, to highlight something in the face. Probably also a light behind the subject. Interesting look. Maybe it is the combination of the soft box for the general light and the spot for the centre of the face which gives the falloff?
 
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