ptomsu
Workshop Member
That way would be ok, it would bring in money but not cost too many resources.
Otherwise involvement in another system would be just stupid in my opinion.
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Leica in a more trouble than really known ?
- Thread starter Christopher
- Start date
Otherwise involvement in another system would be just stupid in my opinion.
carstenw
Active member
Well... it is not only about money, but also about protecting your image. The more Leica rebadges, the less the Leica brand means. They seem to have found a precarious balance with compacts, but trying to move that strategy upmarket is risky, especially since there is always one company which can deliver an equivalent camera at a cheaper price: Panasonic.
Christopher
Active member
On the other hand Leica wouldn't be here anymore if they would not rebadge cameras. It was one of the main aspects they survived so long.
+1 They generate more revenue from compacts than 'system' cameras - and the annual sales on the compact side fell 'just' 10% vs. 27% for system cameras. Either of those two categories are also roughly 2x what they recognize in sport optic revenue. Pride's a great thing, but revenue and new users are more important, especially in this economy.
That said, while sales & earnings are interesting accounting statistics (given the wonderful world of GAAP, revenue recognition policies and line-item P&L and Balance Sheet 'sculpting'), cash(flow) is THE king-maker (or breaker).
As a reference for the mildly bored:
http://www.dgap.de/news/adhoc/leica...iscal-year-with-sales-decrease_830_568339.htm
The full monty for the truly bored- Fiscal 2009 Annual Report
http://www.corporate.leica-camera.com/investor_relations/annual_reports/2009/index.html
Also page 71 (end of auditor's note) in above
That said, while sales & earnings are interesting accounting statistics (given the wonderful world of GAAP, revenue recognition policies and line-item P&L and Balance Sheet 'sculpting'), cash(flow) is THE king-maker (or breaker).
As a reference for the mildly bored:
http://www.dgap.de/news/adhoc/leica...iscal-year-with-sales-decrease_830_568339.htm
The full monty for the truly bored- Fiscal 2009 Annual Report
http://www.corporate.leica-camera.com/investor_relations/annual_reports/2009/index.html
Also page 71 (end of auditor's note) in above
Last edited:
Christopher
Active member
Both fake, and a pretty bad one. You only know how bad if you look at the real thing next to you 
F
frendakfurnari
Guest
Hello All.
New member here. Avid amateur and Leica fan amongst others but haven't gone digital RF yet and probably won't anytime soon simply because I won't be able to afford an M9 and wouldn't want less than full frame (I like 50mm lenses above all). But I do have a Panasonic G1 which enables me to mess with all sorts of lenses and I enjoy it immensely despite the lack of a proper normal lens. If any of you frequent ebay you may recognize my name as I'm a pretty active seller of nice used equipment, Leica and otherwise. I like to think of myself as one of the good guys on ebay. But I'm not posting here to plug myself. Just wanted to give a little background with my first post.
Here's a prediction out of left field. Someone above mentioned that Leica would fail to exist if they didn't rebadge cameras. I don't think that's entirely true. On the flip side of that Panasonic would not have the success they have today were it not for Leica, particularly the LX-3. Having a fast Leica lens on front did a lot to boost the sales of that camera from day one. And the D-Lux 4 has done very well too. I don't know just how interwoven the two companies are but it seems to me that they are more aligned than Leica and Minolta were in the early 70s. And I think what it on their horizon now has a much better chance of commanding a serious segment of the market than the R3/Minolta XE-7 and CL/CLE cameras did 30+ years ago. The time is ripe. Leaving aside the S2, the full frame M9 and GF-1 are going to be popular. Leica is producing micro 4/3 lenses. A macro was just announced by Panasonic as was a fast 20mm lens for the GF-1 (I don't know if Leica was involved in its design but I suspect they were). It seems pretty obvious that there will be a rebadged GF-1, perhaps with a different fast lens or perhaps with the same lens and we'll find out it is for certain a Leica design. My thinking is that, as the two companies are working together, Panasonic won the coin toss (or flexed their muscle) and got to release the GF-1 before 9/9/09 when Leica will introduce their version. But, and this is the left field part, Leica will get to introduce the successor to the LX-3/D-Lux 4 on the 9th with Panasonic following up shortly thereafter.
As to whether or not Leica is in trouble I don't know but I think they'd be foolish not to take advantage of the success of the micro 4/3 system and the LX-3/D-Lux 4 both of which they already have a major hand in. If they don't I think they will be in serious trouble despite the M9 and S2 and continue to lose market share as they have since the advent of the SLR (further compounded more recently by the likes of Cosina and the new lenses from Zeiss). If they do I think they will regain a firm footing and reclaim some of what they've lost. And they'll have the capital to keep making machines like the M9 and S2 that have no equal even if they have the attention of only a small part of the market.
I'll probably eat my words in a week but what the heck.
Bert Furnari
New member here. Avid amateur and Leica fan amongst others but haven't gone digital RF yet and probably won't anytime soon simply because I won't be able to afford an M9 and wouldn't want less than full frame (I like 50mm lenses above all). But I do have a Panasonic G1 which enables me to mess with all sorts of lenses and I enjoy it immensely despite the lack of a proper normal lens. If any of you frequent ebay you may recognize my name as I'm a pretty active seller of nice used equipment, Leica and otherwise. I like to think of myself as one of the good guys on ebay. But I'm not posting here to plug myself. Just wanted to give a little background with my first post.
Here's a prediction out of left field. Someone above mentioned that Leica would fail to exist if they didn't rebadge cameras. I don't think that's entirely true. On the flip side of that Panasonic would not have the success they have today were it not for Leica, particularly the LX-3. Having a fast Leica lens on front did a lot to boost the sales of that camera from day one. And the D-Lux 4 has done very well too. I don't know just how interwoven the two companies are but it seems to me that they are more aligned than Leica and Minolta were in the early 70s. And I think what it on their horizon now has a much better chance of commanding a serious segment of the market than the R3/Minolta XE-7 and CL/CLE cameras did 30+ years ago. The time is ripe. Leaving aside the S2, the full frame M9 and GF-1 are going to be popular. Leica is producing micro 4/3 lenses. A macro was just announced by Panasonic as was a fast 20mm lens for the GF-1 (I don't know if Leica was involved in its design but I suspect they were). It seems pretty obvious that there will be a rebadged GF-1, perhaps with a different fast lens or perhaps with the same lens and we'll find out it is for certain a Leica design. My thinking is that, as the two companies are working together, Panasonic won the coin toss (or flexed their muscle) and got to release the GF-1 before 9/9/09 when Leica will introduce their version. But, and this is the left field part, Leica will get to introduce the successor to the LX-3/D-Lux 4 on the 9th with Panasonic following up shortly thereafter.
As to whether or not Leica is in trouble I don't know but I think they'd be foolish not to take advantage of the success of the micro 4/3 system and the LX-3/D-Lux 4 both of which they already have a major hand in. If they don't I think they will be in serious trouble despite the M9 and S2 and continue to lose market share as they have since the advent of the SLR (further compounded more recently by the likes of Cosina and the new lenses from Zeiss). If they do I think they will regain a firm footing and reclaim some of what they've lost. And they'll have the capital to keep making machines like the M9 and S2 that have no equal even if they have the attention of only a small part of the market.
I'll probably eat my words in a week but what the heck.
Bert Furnari
tashley
Subscriber Member
Well I hope you don't have to but I'm sure they'll be as delicious then as they are now! Your predictions are verryyy interesting!
beamon
New member
Though I'm stayin' out of this frenzy of prognostication, I must say Bert, that the image conjured up of the CEOs of companies hunched over a table and tossing a coin for announcement priorities has me chuckling out loud.
But, I can't come up with a better way for the parties to resolve stuff like that! :salute:
But, I can't come up with a better way for the parties to resolve stuff like that! :salute:
Hank Graber
New member
Leica's new owners, I think, are taking the long view. They don't have to impress shareholders with quarterly numbers and can do what is needed to succeed long term. Considering the economic climate they are contending with they have not done badly (with Leica) and seem to be moving in the right direction. If they can hit 2 out of 3 with the S, M and X intros I expect Leica will be around for the M10 and X-2.
woodyspedden
New member
Hank
Great to have you back! Seriously it seems like a year since you posted anything. Anyway, I am just glad that you are looking again and will add your valuable knowledge to this forum
Woody Spedden
Great to have you back! Seriously it seems like a year since you posted anything. Anyway, I am just glad that you are looking again and will add your valuable knowledge to this forum
Woody Spedden
Hank Graber
New member
Thanks, but I never really left. Just been busy and not being in the market for any new kit (my M8, 35 lux and 90 macro have been earning their purchase price) I've been posting less and lurking more