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Pentax 645D

D&A

Well-known member
There are some very good deals on LN/LN-/EX+ condition 645 lenses again, especially the manual focus A versions. I just ordered a LN- 75mm A lens from KEH for $139, which I'm hoping will be in even better condition than the EX+ copy I already own (which itself was only ~$100.) I've been very happy with the optical quality of this lens on my P645NII. If I remember correctly, the FA version of this lens is one that you thought was quite good on the 645D also.

Gary
Hi Gary,

I believe the MF 75mm f2.8 645 lens is optically identical to it's FA Af counterpart (sometimes coatings are different between "A" and FA versions of lenses)... but I don't know for certain since I only tested the Af version. The lens was a surprise and a little gem on the 645D, but as my lens test indicated, had to be stopped down approx 1.5 stops to achieve good sharpness. One important thing to note is all samples (some more than others) showed some of the highest levels of CA of any Pentax FA 645 lens...espcially when bright light refected off metalic items. A good deal of it was easily removed in post processing.

Used at f5.6 and beyond, how can one go wrong with a medium format lens priced like this....and so compact. These are some of the types of gems that makes the 645D system so desirable.

Dave (D&A)
 
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gurtch

Well-known member
Hi Gary,

I believe the MF 75mm f2.8 645 lens is optically identical to it's FA Af counterpart (sometimes coatings are different between "A" and FA versions of lenses)... but I don't know for certain since I only tested the Af version. The lens was a surprise and a little gem on the 645D, but as my lens test indicated, had to be stopped down approx 1.5 stops to achieve good sharpness. One important thing to note is all samples (some more than others) showed some of the highest levels of CA of any Pentax FA 645 lens...espcially when bright light refected off metalic items. A good deal of it was easily removed in post processing.

Used at f5.6 and beyond, how can one go wrong with a medium format lens priced like this....and so compact. These are some of the types of gems that makes the 645D system so desirable.

Dave (D&A)
Dave: Is there someplace I can down load and save your 645D lens tests? I read it initially on either this forum, or possibly the Pentax forum, and value them very much. I would like to save them so I can refer to them. Strange thing about lenses: I owned a Pentax 67 and 645 way back when, and having come from a Hasselblad 500C with Zeiss lenses (I could only afford two), the Pentax lenses were a bargain. I think 5 minutes after the 645D was announced, I started on a used lens buying spree. Every lens from 35mm to 300mm, none over about $150 to $175, (except the pristine 300mm) from KEH and ebay. I had two zooms; I had both A and later, FA versions. Here's the funny thing: I prefer the manual focus A versions, so I sold all my FA lenses, except the 45~85. There is a precise feel to the beautiful helicals of the A lenses. I now have 35mm A, 75mm A, 120mm macro A, 150mm A, 200mm A and 300mm A with 1.4X, and the FA 45-85 zoom. A beautiful lens line up that was probably no more than $1200 to $1400 total!
Best regards
Dave in NJ
 

bensonga

Well-known member
Dave (in NJ): I prefer the feel and build quality of the manual focus A versions too. They come closest to matching the quality of my Pentax 67 SMC lenses (all the latest versions).

Gary
 

Shashin

Well-known member
I got a 35mm A and 120mm A. Very nice lenses, although the 120mm makes me feel weird sometimes--it can look like you are trying to overcompensate for something.
 

D&A

Well-known member
Dave: Is there someplace I can down load and save your 645D lens tests? I read it initially on either this forum, or possibly the Pentax forum, and value them very much. I would like to save them so I can refer to them. Strange thing about lenses: I owned a Pentax 67 and 645 way back when, and having come from a Hasselblad 500C with Zeiss lenses (I could only afford two), the Pentax lenses were a bargain. I think 5 minutes after the 645D was announced, I started on a used lens buying spree. Every lens from 35mm to 300mm, none over about $150 to $175, (except the pristine 300mm) from KEH and ebay. I had two zooms; I had both A and later, FA versions. Here's the funny thing: I prefer the manual focus A versions, so I sold all my FA lenses, except the 45~85. There is a precise feel to the beautiful helicals of the A lenses. I now have 35mm A, 75mm A, 120mm macro A, 150mm A, 200mm A and 300mm A with 1.4X, and the FA 45-85 zoom. A beautiful lens line up that was probably no more than $1200 to $1400 total!
Best regards
Dave in NJ
Hi Dave (in NJ) and everyone else!

Sorry for the delayed response...work sometimes gets in the way...LOL!

Serious though, your experiences with Pentax "A" MF 645 lenses in comparison with the FA versions is completely understandable. A bit of Pentax history. Your experiences actually emulates what very long time Pentax 35mm SLR and DSLR users experienced including myself. The "A" and "A*" manual focus 35mm lenses were simply beautiful in construction, optical performance and of course the all important build quality and tactile feel. Nearly second to none when compared to other Pentax lenses..even their Af ones. Many of these "A" lenses had their own unique optical formulas and lens speed in comparison to the Af versions were not the same in terms of optical design. In some cases they were identical in this respect.

Fast forward to the Pentax 645 lenses. Again the MF versions had a beautiful build quality as well as focusing helical and tactile feel. Thinks were a bit different this time around. Some of the newer FA AF 645 lenses had the same optical design as their manual focus predecessors....some didn't,. Even if their optical arrangement was similar, lens coating (which I confirmed) were often different...which may be why differences in CA is seen with match pairs of the MF and AF versions of the same lens. Each lens therefore has to be evaluated on a case by case basis, especially when used on the 645D.

I decided for a variety of reason and uses to primarily focus on the FA Af versions but those identical manual focus version will generally perform the same and in a couple of cases may actually be preferable image wise to their AF counterparts.

The bottom line is many of not most are very capable performers and often stellar! The key with the FA Af lenses is to find samples that perform above the norm when used on the 645D. Since almost all these lenses, both MF and Af were designed in the film days...adjustment at the factory was often sloppy but more than adequate with film..but not when used in conjunction with a digital sensor. Same thing was observed with Leica M lenses when the M8 body was released. After finding the best possible sample, the next step with the AF versions was to find tune AF with each lens. The differences are as nearly as dramatic as different samples of manual focus 645 lenses.

As for my comprehensive Pentax 645 lens tests, they were only posted here on Getdpi and once I can find the posting, I'll provide the link in this thread.

I've been meaning to ask Guy and Jack if they could make it a "sticky", since I get requests elsewhere for links to this test. I've since tested two more important lenses in the 645 system and just have to finish writing up the mini review...something I've been promising to do for 6-12 months...LOL!

If one chooses carefully, whether using MF or Af lenses, quite a remarkable system can be achieved for a reasonable amount of investment.

Again different lens samples and Af fine tune with Af lenses seems to be the key and I cannot overemphasize the difference this has made in a great number of cases.
Dave (D&A)
 

Ed Hurst

Well-known member
Gary - congrats on your very sensible decision! I look forward to comparing notes with you on your 645D :)
 

Stuart Richardson

Active member
Congratulations Gary! I think it is a very good decision, and I know you have been thinking about this for ages.

Regarding the printing, I agree that 17x22 is not even breaking a sweat for these cameras. I print the S2 to 1mX1.5m (40x60 inches, roughly), and they still look quite sharp on close inspection...very sharp from even a foot or two back.

I do the printing for a living, and work with the 44" Epson 9900. Trust me, while they are great printers, they are also high maintenance, expensive to run, take up a huge amount of space, and really need to be running all the time. I would never want one unless I was printing for a living. Of course, there are photographers who own them and it works great for them, but you really need to be printing very large on a regular basis for it to be worth it.

I would, of course be happy to print for any of you though, haha. Special GetDPI discount! I send work out fairly often. I did two very large jobs for a national museum and a gallery in Norway last year, and have sent work to the UK, Germany and the States in the past few months. But really, not meant to be a hard sell, if you can find a local person with the printer and be face to face with them as they work, that's really the best situation. Most of the work I send abroad is for clients whom I have already established a good working relationship with, so I know their preferences etc.
 

Shashin

Well-known member
You can load 8x10 paper in the Epson 9800. You can more use out of it that way and it really impresses your visitors.

:)
 

TimWright

Member
One thing to watch is that Pentax customer service is about the worst I have ever dealt with. I have a 645D and 3 months out of warranty with maybe 2500 shots on it I found the back sd card slot was working. You could push the card in but it wouldn't stay, just kept popping out. Everything else on the camera was perfect. Sent it in for repair in November and it just came back. Cost $1200 to fix the spring clip. No consideration that it was just out of warranty or the low shot count and over 3 months to repair.
 

D&A

Well-known member
Tim,

I feel your pain as I'm sure many here do. Prior to Pentax being sold/part merger with Hoya (which was even before their current buyout from Ricoh)..they were basically a family owned company which few knew. I had a close working relationship with them, but even those that didn't were surprised and even shocked that they would do a large percentage of out of warrenty repairs free or for a nominal charge. Maybe thats one of the reasons they eventually found themselves in financial hardship.

Pentax USA no longer does repairs but farms it out to CRIS and like a lot of 3rd party companies who repair for a variety of concerns, they often charge an arm and leg. I don't know what lengths you went to fight this, but Pentax has usually looked upon 645D purchases as professional purchases and would still try and bend over backwards when possible. Prior to getting a estimate, did you try to contact every possible channel to plead your case? I even think it would have been far less expensive to ship to Pentax Canada or Japan, since it was out of warrenty. For a 645D , I am surprised by what you decribed.

Again I wish someone could do something even after the fact that it's been repaired and it wouldn't hurt contacting Pentax USA again and explain how rediculous this repair bill was...unless the repair involved something else. When a 3rd party repair facitlity is often involved in a repiar, even the tinest repair often becomes a major ordeal. This has been my personal experience.
Dave (D&A)
 
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Stuart Richardson

Active member
Yes, that really does sound beyond the pale! It sounds like they put an extra zero on by mistake.

(P.S. Shashin: I only have one printer, so I am printing A4/8x10 on the 9900! Not the most efficient...a 3880 or smaller would be easier for sheets, but better to consolidate all the consumable costs into one machine for me).
 

tsjanik

Well-known member
Tim:

That's outrageous.

Dave's analysis agrees with my own experience. Pentax USA repair was great when it existed. I remember a long conversation with repairperson who worked on my 67 300mm ED lens. CRIS is a different story, you can only talk to the receptionist and I really doubt if any of the repair techs have any factory training. Pentax Canada is still good, but has become less accessible. I live about a 2 hr. drive from them and have had several repairs done there and had face-to-face conversations with the repair people - no longer, you can't get past the front desk now. Additionally, they no longer ship to US addresses; you have to have a Canadian address. This happened around the same time Pentax USA closed their repair facilities - coincidence? More likely they are afraid of being overwhelmed by US repairs.

You should have received a contact person with Pentax Professional services with the camera. If not, pm me and I’ll send a name and number

Tom
 

TimWright

Member
Hi

Actually I am in Canada, Montreal to be exact. I sent the camera in to Pentax Canada for what I thought would be a minor adjustment or repair and now 3 months later get it back with a $1391.20 bill. I always had 2 cards in the camera but always shot to the front one and had the rear just in case. Because of that it almost always stayed in the camera but when I took it out in November it would not go back in.


Tim,

I feel your pain as I'm sure many here do. Prior to Pentax being sold/part merger with Hoya (which was even before their current buyout from Ricoh)..they were basically a family owned company which few knew. I had a close working relationship with them, but even those that didn't were surprised and even shocked that they would do a large percentage of out of warrenty repairs free or for a nominal charge. Maybe thats one of the reasons they eventually found themselves in financial hardship.

Pentax USA no longer does repairs but farms it out to CRIS and like a lot of 3rd party companies who repair for a variety of concerns, they often charge an arm and leg. I don't know what lengths you went to fight this, but Pentax has usually looked upon 645D purchases as professional purchases and would still try and bend over backwards when possible. Prior to getting a estimate, did you try to contact every possible channel to plead your case? I even think it would have been far less expensive to ship to Pentax Canada or Japan, since it was out of warrenty. For a 645D , I am surprised by what you decribed.

Again I wish someone could do something even after the fact that it's been repaired and it wouldn't hurt contacting Pentax USA again and explain how rediculous this repair bill was...unless the repair involved something else. When a 3rd party repair facitlity is often involved in a repiar, even the tinest repair often becomes a major ordeal. This has been my personal experience.
Dave (D&A)
 

tsjanik

Well-known member
Hi

Actually I am in Canada, Montreal to be exact. I sent the camera in to Pentax Canada for what I thought would be a minor adjustment or repair and now 3 months later get it back with a $1391.20 bill. I always had 2 cards in the camera but always shot to the front one and had the rear just in case. Because of that it almost always stayed in the camera but when I took it out in November it would not go back in.
Ouch. Right after I sing the praises of Pentax Canada I see this. I must say I'm surprised. I would certainly call them for an explanation.

I'll pm the US contacts, but not sure they can help you.
 

bensonga

Well-known member
Tim's service experience certainly gives me reason to pause re buying a used 645D. I would expect Pentax to offer better service on a camera costing so much.

It's probably been 10+ years since I have had any service done by Pentax. My older Pentax 67 bodies had developed the erratic film advance problem. As I recall, fixing both bodies cost about $300.

I would hate to spend $7k on a used 645D, only to get a $1,300 bill later to fix the spring clip on a SD card slot or something else.

I wonder how long the warranty period on a new 645D is...

Gary
 

Shashin

Well-known member
1 year. You can also check the net to see how many folks have been having trouble with the 645D. I think you will find the numbers low. Certainly better than that other $7,000 camera by Leica.
 

tsjanik

Well-known member
Tim's service experience certainly gives me reason to pause re buying a used 645D. I would expect Pentax to offer better service on a camera costing so much.

It's probably been 10+ years since I have had any service done by Pentax. My older Pentax 67 bodies had developed the erratic film advance problem. As I recall, fixing both bodies cost about $300.

I would hate to spend $7k on a used 645D, only to get a $1,300 bill later to fix the spring clip on a SD card slot or something else.

I wonder how long the warranty period on a new 645D is...

Gary
Gary:

I wouldn't let that dissuade you. I've had my 645D since December 2010 without a hiccup. I have over 10,000 exposures, which had I been using my 67, would have cost about $10,000.

Tom

PS I kept my 67II thinking I would use both, in fact the film camera only gets used when I need a fisheye.
 

Shashin

Well-known member
+1

I have also shot over 10,000 frames on my 645D. If I had shot that number of frames on the film medium-format cameras that were replaced by the 645D, it would have come out a lot more than the camera.
 

D&A

Well-known member
1 year. You can also check the net to see how many folks have been having trouble with the 645D. I think you will find the numbers low. Certainly better than that other $7,000 camera by Leica.
I couldn't agree more with both Shashin and Tom with their personal thoughts regarding reliability with the 645D and all the rest they expressed.

For myself, the 645D has been flawless in every way, reliable to a fault and never misses a beat. That doesn't mean that an occasional unit doesn't encounter issues as any reliable product might encounter. I think with all the years Pentax has had developing the 645D..they got it "right". Something tells me if Pentax never had financial issues, the 645D it would have been released years earlier (with a smaller sensor of course) and also had a higher percentage of problems.

Case in point: Think of a high school student who has to hand in a major paper in 2 weeks..it may be good but could use improvement. Give them an extra 3 -5 years to work on the same paper and it should be close to perfect. That's sort of what happened to the 645D in development.

Getting back to the issue of Tim's 645D and the repair needed for the spring loaded mechanism responsible for ejection of the SD card. I would make continuous calls to Pentax Canada repeatedly until you reach the very highest levels of management, explain the situation and demand an explanation. I realize labor often costs more than possibly a $5.00 part but the cots of your (Tim's) repair is beyond comprehension if that's all was needed.

Pentax as I explained earlier in my professional dealing with them, would do most anything to keep a working relationship on a level that's expected. Fast forward years later, you can only speak to a receptionist at CHIS repair when dealing with Pentax USA repair and as I had a serious questions and issue regarding a older lens....and it was as though the receptionist was simply a go between her and the tech and would allow nothing more. I think Pentax USA is simply now a office and is involved in nothing more that paperwork and keeping track of import of equipment and a few other administrative things. Of the record I've spoken with a few present and past contacts.

Personally, when it comes to out of warranty Pentax equipment, I'd bypass CHIS and go directly to Pentax Japan since it now appears Pentax Canada which I greatly admired when I had some Canadian shoots and required their assistance. is becoming similar to Pentax USA.

I have a feeling that the 645D that needed the eject mechanism repaired, was sent back to Pentax Japan as most 645D's do when needing attention...and that's why it took so long to repair. Pentax Canada probably tacked on a $900.00 surcharge for their services much as CRIS does.

It appears like a lot of companies, that certain subsidiaries have becomes nothing more than clearing houses.

Nikon USA is becoming the same way with regards to repair charges and evaluation. Send most any lens or camera under warranty (such as lens that is front or back focusing...and it will come back with a $300.00 or more estimate for "impact damage". That's been the new catch phrase for Nikon USA the past 3 years for almost anything your send them in or out of warranty that has an issue...even a lens that was removed from the box brand new and mounted once. Luckily the web has spread the word about this sort of unethical practice and a couple of sharp words with upper level management and all of a sudden...all charges are usually removed and repair is free. They depend on most not being aware of this. Literally hundreds if not a few thousand have reported this practice and still Nikon doesn't get "it" that word is spreading via the web.

With many companies like Pentax in dire economic straits and like Nikon, with their profits reportedly reduced significantly the past 12 months...this is what these companies now resort to, to survive. Don't get me started with Nikon raising prices on small parts by as much as 200% and charging $25.00-$35.00 to mail a piece of 1" x 2" rubber for the bottom of a grip in a 50 cent envelope. This began a few months ago as well as their no longer allowing independent service facilities to order and sell parts to the general public. What a wonderful "new" way for all these companies to generate customer loyalty..."Not"!
 
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