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Auto White Balance, Nature and why not to do it!

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
HI Guy
A couple of points
1.
Does the D3 not have an incident white balance meter? (I know the Olympus E1 and E2 DO have one). I've been looking around and can't find out.
2.
The Daylight setting on the D3 is 4891 with a tint of -5 (FWIW) it comes up the same in ACR and Aperture.
I don't think any of Nikons or canons are incident based but reflected based but something we should check. Usually it is coming in from the lens and calculated there.

For Aperture 4891 could be the case, some programs run daylight at different numerical values. So no hard and fast rule on 5500, that is just the standard value for daylight. LR is more like 5300. i have to check C1 but i think it is lower also
 

LCT

Member
...why would you want to import a batch of photographs where not a single one had either correct, or the same white balance?...
Well frankly i don't care. If i've shot daylight pics i just choose the daylight setting or 5200 K in the raw converter for instance. Even if my in-camera settings were totally false, the pic will have 5200 K like other ones finally no? Again i have the feeling that i'm missing something here but i can't seem to see where sorry.
 

jonoslack

Active member
Well frankly i don't care. If i've shot daylight pics i just choose the daylight setting or 5200 K in the raw converter for instance. Even if my in-camera settings were totally false, the pic will have 5200 K like other ones finally no? Again i have the feeling that i'm missing something here but i can't seem to see where sorry.
Hi There
. . . and if the camera has set a different tint value for each shot? Will you not bother with that?

If you're going to set everything back to daylight, what's the point of having it on AWB in the first place?
 

jonoslack

Active member
For Aperture 4891 could be the case, some programs run daylight at different numerical values. So no hard and fast rule on 5500, that is just the standard value for daylight. LR is more like 5300. i have to check C1 but i think it is lower also
Hi Guy
That brings up another interesting point - you have implied that the camera says 'daylight' and the program then picks up it's standard for daylight . . . but both ACR and Aperture use the 4891 and -5 value - isn't it more likely that when you set the camera to 'daylight' then it puts specific values into the raw file which is then picked up by the program?

Mind you, the Aperture value for the M8 is different from that in ACR, and both are quite different (much warmer) than the ones for the D3.
 

LCT

Member
..If you're going to set everything back to daylight, what's the point of having it on AWB in the first place?
Well i don't see the point of choosing any in-camera setting to put it bluntly. I generally choose AWB to chimp more easily (when i chimp) but i know that this won't be good enough of course and i don't care because the 'serious' WB settings will be done in the raw conveter anyway. Well never mind i must be too tired (or stupid) tonight. Time to go to bed. Cheers.
 
V

Van

Guest
I too shoot NEF/RAW. But I agree with Jono. In fact, the WB affects everything the camera processes. I believe if you can get it right, right off the bat, you will get a more accurate exposure. I have found the WB can affect the exposure settings.

Well frankly i don't care. If i've shot daylight pics i just choose the daylight setting or 5200 K in the raw converter for instance. Even if my in-camera settings were totally false, the pic will have 5200 K like other ones finally no? Again i have the feeling that i'm missing something here but i can't seem to see where sorry.
 

jonoslack

Active member
Well i don't see the point of choosing any in-camera setting to put it bluntly. I generally choose AWB to chimp more easily (when i chimp) but i know that this won't be good enough of course and i don't care because the 'serious' WB settings will be done in the raw conveter anyway. Well never mind i must be too tired (or stupid) tonight. Time to go to bed. Cheers.
Well, that's fine - but it relies on you actually remembering what the light was actually like . . . so well that you can tweak the wb on individual shots until you have what you want. I'm pretty good on colour (and I have a good memory for it too) but not that good.

Sleep well!
 

Terry

New member
Jono,
if you were to take one of the AWB shots and change it to daylight in Aperture, what does the program do with the tint? I am not experienced in dealing with the tint and how the RAW converters change the tint when you change the temperature. This will probably spawn some other questions from me but my brain is only working in little baby steps right now.
 

LCT

Member
Well, that's fine - but it relies on you actually remembering what the light was actually like . . . so well that you can tweak the wb on individual shots until you have what you want...
Not sure if i'm good on colors but yes i do work this way. Perhaps i'm wrong after all. Or perhaps i'm a genius hehe! Bye folks. :)
 

gromitspapa

New member
Good stuff to know. I had always heard the AWB was pretty good in the D300, so I tried a few just to check. These were converted directly to JPEG from Capture NX with direct sunlight on the left and AWB on the right. I like the direct sunlight WB better as well.







 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Hi Guy
That brings up another interesting point - you have implied that the camera says 'daylight' and the program then picks up it's standard for daylight . . . but both ACR and Aperture use the 4891 and -5 value - isn't it more likely that when you set the camera to 'daylight' then it puts specific values into the raw file which is then picked up by the program?

Mind you, the Aperture value for the M8 is different from that in ACR, and both are quite different (much warmer) than the ones for the D3.
Exactly the camera has a daylight value built in it is a standard and won't change which will reside in the DNG or NEF etc. The Raw processors just may see it at a different value that the raw processors algorithm is set too. Reason I said 5500 is not Gospel different programs tend to place different values. And this comes down to way different raw processors see the same file different Adobe may like it like this or C1 may like it like that. It is what is built into there profiles for that particular camera
 

jonoslack

Active member
Jono,
if you were to take one of the AWB shots and change it to daylight in Aperture, what does the program do with the tint? I am not experienced in dealing with the tint and how the RAW converters change the tint when you change the temperature. This will probably spawn some other questions from me but my brain is only working in little baby steps right now.
Good Question - I don't know what happens in Lightroom, but Aperture doesn't have a specific 'daylight' temperature (you can make up your own presets for it). If you change the colour temperature it doesn't change the tint automatically.
 

Terry

New member
Good Question - I don't know what happens in Lightroom, but Aperture doesn't have a specific 'daylight' temperature (you can make up your own presets for it). If you change the colour temperature it doesn't change the tint automatically.
Soooo....
Before you made this change to using daylight had you been adjusting the tint or only the temps when you were trying to fix the yellow problems? It would be interesting to see if you took the AWB shots and changed the Temp and time to be exactly like the daylight shots and see if there are any exposure differences or if everything then looks exactly the same.
 
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jonoslack

Active member
Soooo....
Before you made this change to using daylight had you been adjusting the tint or only the temps when you were trying to fix the yellow problems? It would be interesting to see if you took the AWB shots and changed the Temp and time to be exactly like the daylight shots and see if there are any exposure differences or if everything then looks exactly the same.
HI There
Yes - if you change the temp to 4981 and the tint to -5 then the shots are identical (phew!). I guess that's LCT's point - but if you're going to batch change all your pictures to daylight . . . . why not shoot them like that in the first place! (of course, until RobMac chipped in, I didn't even know what the standard settings for daylight were).
 

jonoslack

Active member
Good stuff to know. I had always heard the AWB was pretty good in the D300, so I tried a few just to check. These were converted directly to JPEG from Capture NX with direct sunlight on the left and AWB on the right. I like the direct sunlight WB better as well.
HI There
It's something that most of us mostly don't think about a great deal under normal circumstances.
Looks like it's been useful to you! Good! Thanks for posting.
 

cmb_

Subscriber & Workshop Member
i have to check C1 but i think it is lower also
C1 4
M8 - Daylight = 5267, -3
DMR - Daylight = 5555, 4

C1 Pro v. 3.7.8
M8 - Daylight = 5300, -2
DMR - Daylight = 5600, 2

For the M8 files, if you set the WB to Daylight in Camera, the numbers in C1 are the same if you select As Shot or Daylight (both selections give you 5267, -3 in C1 4 or 5300, -2 in C1 Pro).

regards, Charles
 

Terry

New member
HI There
Yes - if you change the temp to 4981 and the tint to -5 then the shots are identical (phew!). I guess that's LCT's point - but if you're going to batch change all your pictures to daylight . . . . why not shoot them like that in the first place! (of course, until RobMac chipped in, I didn't even know what the standard settings for daylight were).
Well now you know a good setting for your shots and if you are in AWB ever again you have a home base that you can adjust to that looks good to you.

I think the lesson I've learned is that simply trying to white balance with the dropper (or changing to a preset like daylight) after using AWB might not be all you need to do. It is a combo of changing the WB and adjusting the tint. If you have a few minutes to play around wanna come up with the numbers in Lightroom :angel: some of us would really like you.
 
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