D700: this looks real enough!

[LJL]

yes very compelling for you LJ. Mf and D700 might just get it all done for you. me too

Guy,
The question becomes do I also sell off all my M8 stuff also to tidy things up for kit and use? That is the one area that I have dared not tread, but who knows, there may be a bunch of really great stuff showing up on the "Buy and Sell" forum here I gave up the brand loyalty thing a while back, so if it cannot get the job done, it may be replaced. The M8 has been the tough nut there, as I waited so long for the M digital, and still love using it. However, if I can get the IQ that I need from something like a D700 for fast paced stuff, and then get more than I may need with MF, the M8 starts looking less used.....even with the Noctilux on in

LJ

 

[Guy Mancuso]

LJ all I can say is brand loyalty buys Pro's nothing at all. We are always looking for a better mouse trap. For us the M8 has turned more into a personal travel and fun camera. Just have to decide if that is worth it. We are commercial shooters and as such need to get work done the best way we know how. Love the M8 no question but work is work and the MF and Nikons especially for you with the speed requirements seems that is what will get your work done. Hate to see anyone sell M8 gear but you have to do what you have to do even if it is not a popular decision.

 

[LJL]

Fully agree. Until very recently, Nikon was not really competitive compared to what I shoot with Canon. The game is changing a bit more. For the money spent, this new D700 could (not known for sure yet) fill the bill for a lot of pros that have feet in the MF camp also, but need a DSLR for other critical stuff. If Canon does not field something competitive to this, Nikon may be getting me back for a while, and also providing the opening for MF in many ways, where my 1DsMkII is doing double duty right now. You are right about the M8....wonderful camera, and I love it also, but it does not fill a spot in my professional use kit....just cannot make it there.

LJ

 

[harmsr]

This D700 might just be the M8 killer for me also.

I had initially purchased a D300 and found its size to be quite nice even somewhat comparable to the M8, but just did not get along with the files after seeing the D3. I sold the D300, moved up to the D3 and was happy until MF struck. The D3 is now gone, mainly because of its size which was directly comparable to the MF gear. However, I really liked the D3 files when used with the Zeiss glass. When used with the Zeiss glass, it compared favorably to the M8 at low ISO and completely won at high ISO. As good as the new Nikon zooms are, they are still not as good as the Zeiss primes. When using the D3 and the 24-70 at low ISO, I preferred the files and detail from the M8. This reversed at 640 ISO, and the D3 really won out.

For the shooting that I do, the M8 & MF can do everything. I really don't need the fast telephoto stuff except for fun.

Now I can get the D3 files in a D300 body, ala the D700. This is REALLY interesting.

If Nikon would update their AF primes like the 35, 50, & 85, the D700 might just be the final straw and push the M8 out.

Ray

 

[LJL]

Ray,
While not in that same gear configuration as you, I fully understand what you are describing. I have the 1DsMkII, and its 16+MP do a pretty decent job encroaching MF, but not quite there. My 1DMkII cameras are also still very usable, fast, reliable, etc., but are getting a bit long in the tooth. I have been avoiding the MkIII upgrades, simply because I did not see the value for the cost (swapping out batteries, L-plates, etc., in addition to three bodies, 1DsMkIII and two 1DMkIII bodies to manage my shooting). With the D700, I may be able to cover enough of my higher speed sports stuff at less cost with very good results, and the higher res needs would be met by a MF kit. That leaves the M8 again as a travel/casual fun camera that could be replaced with one of the smaller D700 cameras for that use. The lenses are not going to come close to the Leica and Zeiss stuff I have now for the M8, but I think I could manage, even going to the Zeiss options for the Nikon. Right now, the Canon glass is pretty decent, but the body is just too big to drag around. I thought about the 5D, but just could never get myself there, and still cannot. This D700 looks to be a good potential replacement in several categories for me right now. I could dump the 1DMkII bodies and glass to replace with equivalent Nikon glass, and also dump the 1DsMkII and get into a MF rig. That essentially leaves the M8, and at this point, though I hate thinking about it, it too could be sold to help finance the MF side more.

Have to see what, if anything Canon puts out there for consideration, but at this point, Nikon is looking like it is hitting some nice marks for my needs. I also would like to see Nikon put out some lenses like the Canon 85 f1.2L. The rest of the line-up for me is not too far off (70-200 f2.8, 24-70 f2.8, 400 f2.8, etc., though I still think Canon's stuff is better and cheaper than Nikon's on these.)

LJ

 

[harmsr]

LJ,

I hear you.

My line up right now is a HD3II39, Phase AFDIII (currently a loaner AFDII until I get the III) with P30+ back, M8, & M7.

I got rid of the Nikon stuff to make the move to MF, and also sold Leica glass. Honestly, I'm so happy with the MF gear that I don't regret it at all.

The Hassy system is my leaf shutter for daylight strobe work and for future tech. camera using the 39MP back.

The P30+ system is the "high" ISO, lightweight, fast (focal plane) shutter system. Once again, very happy although the loaner AFDII does not even come close to comparing with the H3DII body in terms of ergonomics, flash system, view finder, rechargeable battery life, or ease of use. I like the files from the P30+ back, but am hoping for some improvements with the new body.

The M8 is my fun, travel, or small event camera.

The two MF systems back each other up in most circumstances and the M8 is backed up by an M7 body.

This new Nikon could eliminate the M8, plus give me back the ability to shoot telephoto and fast frame rate. Once again, that depends on what happens in the primes for me. If Nikon updates their primes and gets close to the ZF lens quality, it becomes a no brainer to jump.

I'm going to wait and see what happens.

Best,

Ray

 

[LJL]

Ray,
That is the same concern I am developing now....how to handle the Nikon primes. There is another discussion thread that talks about the holes in the lens line-up, and it is starting to hit home for my thinking/planning. While the MF side may cover some of that, if I shed the Canon and Leica stuff in favor of the D700, I will really be hurting for things like the 35/1.4, 50/1.0, 85/1.2 and things like that. Nothing in the Nikon line-up seems up to the task at this point. And there are issues with zooms also, like the 70-200 that does not seem so great on the D3 (FF), and by analogy, the D700 may suffer. All this needs to be sorted before anything gets done....at least in my world.

LJ

 

[Steen]

I came across this post from Phil Askey last night when someone was complaining about the viewfinder

I don't think your disappointment will last much longer than your first look through the eyepiece. [snip]

Thanks Terry
It's just me and my obsession with shooting manual focus primes
That's why I want to be able to easily swap focusing screens without surgery.
I don't think this has a place in Phil Askeys mind at all.
He is in it for the money, and Nikon is probably one of his most important customers.
I doubt that Phil Askeys has ever made one single "review" of the Zeiss ZF lenses or the Voigtländer SL-II lenses, though I may be wrong about this.
I can do without the 100 % frame coverage. (Still I would prefer it over the built in flash which I don't need at all).
But without easily interchangeable focusing screens I don't see sufficient reason for switching to the D700, though I would love a larger viewfinder in itself.
A larger sensor would of course also be nice, but it is not necessary for what I do.
/Steen

 

[LCT]

Ditto but the VF magnification of the D700 (.72x) is higher than that of the D3 (.70x) AFAIK. Then given the different sizes of focusing screens, the image in the viewfinder will be larger than that of the D200 or D300 anyway and a Katz Eye focusing screen could be the solution perhaps...

 

[jonoslack]

Thanks Terry
It's just me and my obsession with shooting manual focus primes
That's why I want to be able to easily swap focusing screens without surgery.
I don't think this has a place in Phil Askeys mind at all.
He is in it for the money, and Nikon is probably one of his most important customers.
I doubt that Phil Askeys has ever made one single "review" of the Zeiss ZF lenses or the Voigtländer SL-II lenses, though I may be wrong about this.
I can do without the 100 % frame coverage. (Still I would prefer it over the built in flash which I don't need at all).
But without easily interchangeable focusing screens I don't see sufficient reason for switching to the D700, though I would love a larger viewfinder in itself.
A larger sensor would of course also be nice, but it is not necessary for what I do.
/Steen

Hi Steen
Well, I'm just an old (half blind) buffer, but I can focus the voigtlander SL-II 58 f1.4 almost in the dark on the standard matte screen on the D3 . . . I don't expect the D700 to be that much different.

 

[harmsr]

Steen,

I'll agree with Jono. If the D700 VF is like the D3, then manual focus is much easier than with the D300. Let us just hope that they calibrate the manual focus confirmation lights on the D700 as well as they do on the D3. (They are not as accurate on the D300.)

Once again, my comments apply up to about 50mm focal length. In using the Zeiss 85 & 100 lenses, I found that I struggled to nail focus with wider apertures and close distance. The AF on the D3 was almost always on with the 85 & 105 Nikons.

Best,

Ray

 

[Steen]

Thanks all. As Ray points out the problem is the longer focal lengths.
I already have the 85mm which I have really come to like. A lot.
And soon I get the 100mm as well, which Andree says is rather difficult even with the D3 viewfinder.
A Katz Eye or a Brightscreen surgery solution is once and for all, and I even wouldn't want to make the operation myself.
Personally I had been looking so much forward to be able to experiment with easy interchangeable focusing screens.
That's all there is to my disappointment, don't take too much notice

 

[LCT]

I did not notice that the D700 focusing screen was not interchangeable. So this camera is not at the level of a mere Nikon FE/FA or even a modest Pentax K10D from this viewpoint. Deal breaker for me i'm afraid.

 

[Jonathon Delacour]

DPReview now has a D700 Hands On Preview.

This illustration from the Viewfinder section indicates that there are no manual focus assist arrows:

Bummer.