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Thread: New D4 D800 rumour

  1. #51
    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
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    Re: New D4 D800 rumour

    Steen

    we are on the way - it´s already coming down in price for 3840x2160 pixel:

    http://www.tested.com/news/55-inch-4...ssive-3d/2832/

    it´s "ONLY" 7999,-€

    and here samsung:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LF5wo...eature=related

    Do you remember "Total recall" with Arnold Schwarzenegger. In the very beginning of this film he sits at breakfast in his kitchen with his (believed to be) wife Sharon Stone and the walls are the displays, to be switched to a television part or back to a landscape. look here:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzWyF...eature=related

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmKy8an48EA

    We are on the way and it will not take so long. 50" Plasmas or LCD´s do cost 500 € now. In 5 Years 4k or 8k 100" screens will have the same price tag. This is mass production, a massive demand and a platform for future standard communication and media.

    Greetings from Munich
    Stefan
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    Re: New D4 D800 rumour

    Steen..simple mind, simple vision, simple life. Simple things suffice.

    Euro 500.00 could buy a lot of food. Priorities also somewhere!!

    Best to you and yours.

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    Senior Subscriber Member Steen's Avatar
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    New D4 D800 rumour


    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart Richardson View Post
    Steen -- just to answer your question about S2 owners -- a tripod and mirror lockup is necessary to get the best out of it, though it will do very well handheld too.

    My biggest concern on this camera is where the heck are you going to find lenses that are worth putting on it? I had the D3 and a number of lenses, including the 24-70mm, 17-35, and a number of primes. Almost all of them were mush in the corners at wide apertures, and that is on 12mp. Many were mush in the corners even at middle apertures (17-35, 35mm f/2). With 4.9 micron pixels, the diffraction is going to kick in really early too, probably f/11 or so. I am not saying it is impossible to get 36mp on 35mm, but you are only going to be getting the full benefit with the very best lenses at f/8 or f/5.6.

    Not sure if that really matters though...even if you don't actually get 36mp of detail, you are going to max out your lenses, which is pretty nice! I still doubt it will compete with MF digital in most respects...it will still have an AA filter, still not have 16 bit color, not have the same tonal range etc. At the same time, it will focus much faster, give you full motion video, fit in a much smaller bag, have a wider range of cheaper lenses, cost a tiny fraction and I am sure have other advantages and disadvantages. Pretty much the only thing it has in common with the S2 for example is the number of pixels. Everything else about the cameras and about how those pixels actually translate into an image are going to be very different!


    Thank you, Stuart, for your elaborated answer.

    I can hear that we think along some of the same lines with regards to handholdability, optical requirements and diffraction.

    Still, I hope you are wrong about the new generation of high resolution cameras still going to have Anti Aliasing filters, but of course we will just have to wait and see about that. I may very well be disappointed here.

    Pixel binning ... ?
    Last edited by Steen; 24th November 2011 at 09:30.

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    Re: New D4 D800 rumour

    Steen

    there already is a scientific solution for that -described for example by one of the most famous people in the knowledge - Eric Fossum

    http://ericfossum.com/

    see his freely available document on page 8
    http://ericfossum.com/Presentations/...0Yale%20v2.pdf
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
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    Senior Subscriber Member Steen's Avatar
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    New D4 D800 rumour


    Indeed interesting to hear these things from the horse's mouth.

    On the Sunset Bar board I recently posted a couple of links to Eric Fossum's one-hour lecture:
    http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31763
    though apparently the thread didn't gain all that much interest.


    Maybe most of us are too busy to watch a one-hour lecture.

    The first 4½ minute is an introduction of Eric Fossum himself, and the first 20 minutes are primarily about potential risks to society of the ways technology can be used.

    So you may actually skip the first 20 minutes and jump directly into the "Science and Technology" chapter at 20:57 if you prefer so.

    Personally I was especially interested in the part about diffraction, which can be found at about 24:20 ...

    and in reduced pixel sizes at about 43:21

    I have now also added these timestaps in the above mentioned thread about Eric Fossum's lecture, which may be the right place for that discussion since it is valid for all brands.













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    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
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    Re: New D4 D800 rumour

    Actually your link rose my interest ! Thanks for that ! ;-)
    And because of this I read through some of his presentations on his website, which was ULTRA - INTERESTING !

    I still think that many people are sleeping in a status between Analogue and Digital. The next years will show that there will be dramatic paradigm shifts that will plow under significant parts of the old industries whereas there will be the rise of a new, communication based digital product and services chain that will replace about anything as we know it today.

    Everybody has to watch his back to be able to start running before this tsunami will hit him.

    regards
    Stefan
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
    facebook:hcam.de - www.hcam.de - www.hartblei.de

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    Senior Subscriber Member Steen's Avatar
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    Re: New D4 D800 rumour

    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan Steib View Post

    (...)
    I still think that many people are sleeping in a status between Analogue and Digital. (...)

    Yeah, I for one certainly am

    I do not at all like the thought about the flange-to-sensor distance of my beloved F-mount lenses maybe becoming more or less obsolete when the mirrors along with the mechanical shutters will be gone some day in a not too distant future.

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    Re: New D4 D800 rumour

    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan Steib View Post
    Steen

    there already is a scientific solution for that -described for example by one of the most famous people in the knowledge - Eric Fossum

    http://ericfossum.com/

    see his freely available document on page 8
    http://ericfossum.com/Presentations/...0Yale%20v2.pdf
    Note that the f-stops mentioned in conjunction with the diffraction limit refers to pupil sizes (and in practice probably only to the entry pupil), and applies to infinity focus, not aperture f-stop as set when shooting. It's the maximum theoretical aperture. Aperture diffraction reduces contrast, so in that sense reduces resolution, but it doesn't project airy disks onto the imager because it's not in focus. As a result stopping down an f/2.8 lens to f/22 doesn't diffract like a lens with a barrel diameter of f/22 would. All you get is contrast loss. And less sharp aperture shapes in the background.

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    Thumbs up Re: New D4 D800 rumour

    Quote Originally Posted by Jan Brittenson View Post
    Note that the f-stops mentioned in conjunction with the diffraction limit refers to pupil sizes (and in practice probably only to the entry pupil), and applies to infinity focus, not aperture f-stop as set when shooting. It's the maximum theoretical aperture. Aperture diffraction reduces contrast, so in that sense reduces resolution, but it doesn't project airy disks onto the imager because it's not in focus. As a result stopping down an f/2.8 lens to f/22 doesn't diffract like a lens with a barrel diameter of f/22 would. All you get is contrast loss. And less sharp aperture shapes in the background.

    Jan, One of the most intriguing and original posts I have read in a long time, anywhere.

    Would you please expand on that (the ones highlighted)?
    (the reason I ask is that normally pupil sizes for a given format lens relates directly to the f stops. If you could provide some examples where that isn't the case, it would be very useful).


    Good points on the infinity focus f stops and the reference to effective apertures and this:
    All you get is contrast loss. And less sharp aperture shapes in the background.
    (bodes well with my observations in actual practice)!


    Thanks!
    Last edited by Vivek; 26th November 2011 at 05:35.

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    Re: New D4 D800 rumour

    I just think it's easier to increase the size of the rear element, especially for wide angles, than for the front element. The front is probably a much greater concern when designing a lens. And perhaps, by correlation, the front virtual pupil. As long as the rear element fits in the mount end of the barrel, and doesn't constrict the rear pupil view it would seem much less of a design consideration. But I'm just guessing.

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    Senior Subscriber Member Steen's Avatar
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    entry level FX camera ?


    It seems to me that something is still missing.
    What do you think there will be in between the D7000 and the firmly rumored "D800" in the new (year 2011 - 2012) generation of cameras ?

    My guess would be at least a D300s DX successor (maybe called "D400") for birding, sports and action, e.g. with a high frame rate and a large buffer.

    But what about an entry level FX sensor based camera ?
    So far we have only seen real entry level cameras in the DX line.
    For how long will we have to keep on regarding FX as a new technology reserved for high end cameras ?

    Do you think the D300s DX successor ("D400") will make the jump up into the FX league for the same reason ?

    I wish we could have at least a short term 2012 roadmap, just to avoid making the wrong choice from the beginning of this new generation of cameras.

    And I wish we will see an entry level FX camera with a full frame sensor crammed into a small, basic, retro design camera in a form factor like an F3 or FM3A
    If Leica can cram all the necessary full frame parts into an M sized body, Nikon can as well, with or without an added pentaprism viewfinder.



    click for natural size


    captured with Nikon D300 • AF-S Nikkor 1.4/50mm G • 1/13 sec. at f/5.6 ISO 200 • Capture NX

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    Re: New D4 D800 rumour

    Steen, If the rumor mills are correct, Ricoh (who now own the Pentax brand) will make that.

    I hope that turns out to be true and I would very much like to have a FF mirrorless cam.

    Nikon, I am afraid, will keep going with the "1" and will churn out many many models like they do with their coolpixes.

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    Re: New D4 D800 rumour

    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan Steib View Post
    Actually your link rose my interest ! Thanks for that ! ;-)
    And because of this I read through some of his presentations on his website, which was ULTRA - INTERESTING !

    I still think that many people are sleeping in a status between Analogue and Digital. The next years will show that there will be dramatic paradigm shifts that will plow under significant parts of the old industries whereas there will be the rise of a new, communication based digital product and services chain that will replace about anything as we know it today.

    Everybody has to watch his back to be able to start running before this tsunami will hit him.

    regards
    Stefan
    You mean like the paperless office and three-day work week? And don't forget that nuclear energy will electricity production so cheap it can be given away...

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    Re: New D4 D800 rumour

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Steen, If the rumor mills are correct, Ricoh (who now own the Pentax brand) will make that.

    I hope that turns out to be true and I would very much like to have a FF mirrorless cam.

    Nikon, I am afraid, will keep going with the "1" and will churn out many many models like they do with their coolpixes.
    Coolpix seems to be a completely different business unit than Nikon's DSLR unit, it's like it's a different company.

    As Steen points out, if the D800 rumors are correct there will be a huge price level gap between D7000 and D800. I doubt that an entry level ($2K?) FX is in the works anytime soon, but perhaps Nikon will keep D700 production going to fill that niche. I would say a high end DX is more likely - true pro level build quality, not necessarily a higher pixel count.
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    Re: New D4 D800 rumour

    Hi Shashin

    well Agfas voice has already disappeared, Kodak may follow next year, lets see how long Fuji may withstand.

    The places 1+2 on amounts of images on Flickr are shot with iPhone 4 and now 4s
    The combined number of images on Facebook shot with mobile phones is probably around 70-80 % maybe more.

    Young people don´t buy cameras anymore, they use their phones.

    I was on the show ends party in Tarragona (Food festival) in September
    and about 100 Pro Photographers when put to privat picture taking mode pulled out (myself included) their iPhones. NOT ONE SINGLE COMPACT!

    The problem is not the competition around the Photoindustry - it comes from outside ! Next will be printers - who will want to print something if you could use Airplay from your iPhone 10 (30 Mpix) to a possible 4k or maybe even 8K 100" Plasma screen ?

    And how will cameras compete that are not connected to the storage cloud ?

    Just my 2 cents
    Stefan
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    Re: New D4 D800 rumour

    Quote Originally Posted by Lars Vinberg View Post
    Coolpix seems to be a completely different business unit than Nikon's DSLR unit, it's like it's a different company.
    It is like Nikon USA is different than Nikon Japan even though they advertise the same stuff with the same celebrities, share the same logo and sell the same stuff.

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    Re: New D4 D800 rumour

    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan Steib View Post
    Hi Shashin

    well Agfas voice has already disappeared, Kodak may follow next year, lets see how long Fuji may withstand.

    The places 1+2 on amounts of images on Flickr are shot with iPhone 4 and now 4s
    The combined number of images on Facebook shot with mobile phones is probably around 70-80 % maybe more.

    Young people don´t buy cameras anymore, they use their phones.

    I was on the show ends party in Tarragona (Food festival) in September
    and about 100 Pro Photographers when put to privat picture taking mode pulled out (myself included) their iPhones. NOT ONE SINGLE COMPACT!

    The problem is not the competition around the Photoindustry - it comes from outside ! Next will be printers - who will want to print something if you could use Airplay from your iPhone 10 (30 Mpix) to a possible 4k or maybe even 8K 100" Plasma screen ?

    And how will cameras compete that are not connected to the storage cloud ?

    Just my 2 cents
    Stefan
    Actually I have to agree! Working myself in networking and lately in cloud, this is already the next revolution.

    As you mention - why print if you can share whatever is in your mood on a 4k 100" screen and for this iPhone4s should already be ok, plus future version will outperform that even more!

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    Re: New D4 D800 rumour

    And I think your images will look good on a large screen, imagine an OLED of the quality of samsungs galaxy the size of a big TV set. It´s not so far away.
    The concept a static image may as well dissolve. You already use complimentary colors and differing structures and image orders to achieve an impression on your website. This is what all the photographers will do in the future for their whole portfolio and it´s presentation.

    Nice website and Photos !

    greetings from Munich
    Stefan
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    Re: New D4 D800 rumour

    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan Steib View Post
    Steen

    we are on the way - it´s already coming down in price for 3840x2160 pixel:

    http://www.tested.com/news/55-inch-4...ssive-3d/2832/

    it´s "ONLY" 7999,-€
    The founder for a startup I worked at in 1999 bought a Pioneer HD plasma TV that year or the year before (60 inch?), for about €30,000 or so. Pretty bad investment hehe. OTOH he also got himself a huge solid gold Breitling at that time, which obviously has been a great investment.
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    Re: New D4 D800 rumour

    iPhone has replaced the Instamatic, so what else is new? The new technology is nice for what it is, but it's also different. There are still people making oil paintings. That's obsolete technology for sure.
    I don't care what gear I have.
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    Re: New D4 D800 rumour

    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan Steib View Post
    Hi Shashin

    well Agfas voice has already disappeared, Kodak may follow next year, lets see how long Fuji may withstand.

    The places 1+2 on amounts of images on Flickr are shot with iPhone 4 and now 4s
    The combined number of images on Facebook shot with mobile phones is probably around 70-80 % maybe more.

    Young people don´t buy cameras anymore, they use their phones.

    I was on the show ends party in Tarragona (Food festival) in September
    and about 100 Pro Photographers when put to privat picture taking mode pulled out (myself included) their iPhones. NOT ONE SINGLE COMPACT!

    The problem is not the competition around the Photoindustry - it comes from outside ! Next will be printers - who will want to print something if you could use Airplay from your iPhone 10 (30 Mpix) to a possible 4k or maybe even 8K 100" Plasma screen ?

    And how will cameras compete that are not connected to the storage cloud ?

    Just my 2 cents
    Stefan
    I doubt anyone is going to argue with that Stefan. The mobile phone is fast becoming the greatest revolution in photography since the invention of the Brownie. It is so because smart phones are with people all the time, and "being there" is more than 1/2 the game. It is the single most powerful political and social networking tool going, and in that context, content trumps image quality every time.

    Smart phones may be in their infancy right now, but that'll change rather rapidly ... check out the iPro lens system ... from none other than Schneider! Note the name ... iPro.

    http://www.iprolens.com/

    In fact, the whole proliferation of reasonably good digital cameras has had a profound effect on a number of traditional photographic industries. I occasionally shoot kids for former wedding clients now starting families ... and it is getting tougher and tougher to out do Mom & Dad with their family Canon Rebel and IS lens ... not because I am not an expert professional photographer, but because Mom or Dad are there when the best pictures happen, and their snaps aren't underexposed, blurry crap like they used to be years ago. They shoot, upload to Facebook and everyone and their Grandmother sees it instantly ... oohs and aahs abound.

    Point is, photography is becoming a technocratic commodity ... so Pro and Advanced Enthusiast photographers must become MORE expert, and MORE creative, and MORE sensitive ... not necessarily MORE technical, unless it is the direct service of the former three aspects I mentioned.

    The direction of photography, art or commercial, need not necessarily be connected to the outlet resources available to the masses, because we will rarely or never "be there" like the socially and politically oriented masses are. We must strive for more profound statements, to raise the levels of beauty, rarity, and emotionally powerful imagery to new levels and find a way to selectively share these images that segregates them from mass proliferation, or they will be lost in the cacophony of voices in the billions which are here today, and gone today.

    -Marc

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    presentation resolution, please ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Steen, If the rumor mills are correct, Ricoh (who now own the Pentax brand) will make that.

    I hope that turns out to be true and I would very much like to have a FF mirrorless cam.

    Nikon, I am afraid, will keep going with the "1" and will churn out many many models like they do with their coolpixes.

    Interesting, Vivek, I hadn't seen that Ricoh rumor.

    You have said it before, mirrorless is the future, and I'm sure you are right about that.
    No more camera-shake from mirror slaps and mechanical shutters.
    But it looks like there will be at least one more generation of DSLRs from Nikon while the electronic viewfinder technology matures.

    I like my F-mount lenses (from Nikon and Zeiss), manual focus as well as autofocus, and my choice of system always starts with the optics I want to use.
    From there I choose an appropriate camera for those lenses, so yet another F-mount camera for me, and most likely a DSLR, which btw. I happen to like.

    But I do not really want freaking 36 million pixels, I had hoped for about half of that. I'd rather have more Bit Depth (or: Color Depth) and Dynamic Range.

    More capture resolution is not what I need.
    What I really need is presentation resolution that matches the capture resolution !

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    Re: New D4 D800 rumour

    Well, Steen, the future is already here. Despite their shortcomings ( I am sure it will be bettered soon by many other brands), my (hacked) converted Panasonic GH-2 is a good century more advanced than the achromatic +.

    As seen through the EVF, 320nm to 390nm reflected UV capture.


    Untitled by Vivek Iyer, on Flickr

    I can even use it in very dim light and shoot hand held (albeit shaky) video in 24p cinema mode in UV (that is a good 7 stops less than the ambient light).

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwSZZ...endscreen&NR=1

    On Nikon, yes people have been asking for a FM-2/3 type of digital cam for more than a good decade now. These folks are quite earnest and genuine. We do not want more coolpixes.

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    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
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    Re: New D4 D800 rumour

    Hi Vivek

    The little GH-2 is a pretty amazing camera. I am looking forward to get a Nex7 or maybe better a Nex5n (because of the larger pixels and the lower price) converted.
    Do you use a mod firmware for video ? If so is the higher bitrate really as good as it is said ?

    greetings from Munich
    Stefan
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    Re: New D4 D800 rumour

    Stefan,

    All my hacks or modifications are hardware related. Off the shelf GH-2 has 0% sensitivity in UV and no amount firmware would do anything to change that. Pretty much the same story with the NEX'.

    Yes, the GH-2 is pretty amazing but the ones I use (modified- just for personal use- to be clear!) take them to being very sophisticated tools.

  26. #76
    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
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    Re: New D4 D800 rumour

    Yes the hardware needs to be converted, I am coworking with a german company which does this very well and even with sensorcleaning intact :

    http://www.h-maccario.de/wordpress/?page_id=644

    Greetings from Munich
    Stefan
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
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    Re: New D4 D800 rumour

    Good luck to you!
    Last edited by Vivek; 20th December 2011 at 06:28. Reason: Clarity

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    Re: New D4 D800 rumour

    To be very plain- any potential customers of any hardware hack/conversions anywhere is strongly advised to question the knowledge and the capabilities of such outfits before venturing into this.

    There are good ones and there are absolute moonshine vendors. Watch your wallets!
    Last edited by Vivek; 20th December 2011 at 06:28. Reason: clarity

  29. #79
    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
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    Re: New D4 D800 rumour

    Well Vivek

    Mr. Dieter Maccario has been working for the Canon Factory repair center for 14 years, he is the one that keeps the original guarantees intact and I have my Canon 5D MK2 converted since 1,5 years now - perfect much better than before + 20 % resolution (antialiasing removed), UV and IR open, his Bluegreen filter (for normal color) is better than the canon original. His UV and IR filters are also both very good, it´s not cheap, but worth every penny. He works for astronomers, universities and big companies here in Germany and worldwide.

    I know there are some funny people offering this on Ebay and other places, but this is a whole different story.

    So I suppose he is the ones you refere of as "good ones".

    Greetings from Munich
    Stefan
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
    facebook:hcam.de - www.hcam.de - www.hartblei.de

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    Re: New D4 D800 rumour

    Stefan,

    With all due respect, I post something here as a contributor and with no financial strings attached.

    It is not my intention to engage in a dialogue with you who has other motives.

    I would ask you for your understanding and request you to refrain from attempting to draw any conclusions on your business- pro or against.

    Thanks a bunch!

  31. #81
    Senior Subscriber Member Steen's Avatar
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    New D4 D800 rumour


    I think we all recommend services and / or products now and then, at least I do if I think I have a good tip to share with the rest of you.
    And in case I have any affiliation with the company or brand I recommend, I'll just tell you so.

    - - - - -

    Anyway, with regards to AA filter removal, I consider buying the Nikon D700 successor for two main reasons.
    I want the big and bright viewfinder that comes with an FX sensor (I have this viewfinder obsession, that's why I like DSLRs).
    And, I am tempted by the rumored non-AA filter version of the "D800".

    But some people have warned me that I will probably experience so much moiré that I will most likely regret going with the non-AA filter version.

    Stefan, what is your experience with the AA filter removal on your 5DII, does the moiré bother you a lot when shooting in natural, available light ?
    In your above comment it sounds like the gains outweigh the disadvantages ?

    Would you recommend that I go with the non-AA version if buy the D800 ?
    Still, it also depends on the price level if I'm going to buy it at all.

    All good advices on this are highly appreciated.

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    Re: New D4 D800 rumour

    Steen, The rumored D800 without AA would still have an UV/IR cut filter (that also normally- based on the current models of Nikon-doubles as the dust shaker). If anyone is offering a do it all with the dust shaker intact, beware.

    I have been shooting with many cams (Nikon, Olympus, Panasonic, Sony..) in the past 6 years without any AA filter.

    While using a 10mp Olympus with a Leica R 50/2, I saw very visible moire in contrasty light.

    Cams with higher pixel density, this is less of an issue, particularly if you are using old Nikon manual focus glass (barring very very few like the 80/2.8 F3AF or the UV-Nikkor 105/4.5). You also may find moire an issue with the 50/1.4 ZF at certain apertures and light.

  33. #83
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    Re: New D4 D800 rumour

    First of all - I used the wrong word- better is cooperation , but on a nonfinancial base. I am not getting any from his turnaround nor does he get any from mine. We just think about doing new products together.

    Steen - I can tell this was the best spent money ( I paid the full price Vivek !) since a long time. It is possible to just remove the Antialiasing, but I decided to have a full open chip as I wanted to go back to the roots (used Dicomed´s bigshot and scanbacks like this, we had a lot of fun with IR on the old Leafs and did plenty of Repros with contrasty HDI´s of the first generations <Kobold> which probably where emitting UV like crazy -same with the Musch 16000 ws generator and heads that we had at Reger Studios). The 21Mpix of the 5DMK2 are perfect for this and I suspect the 36MPIx of an D4 D800 would be even better. Several reasons:

    the finer the pixel pitch the smaller the sensitivity to Moiree. If any occurs (which happens very rarely with the 5DMk2) just move some centimeters for- or backwards and it disappears. The finer the pixels get the smaller the needed change in frequency will be, so the probability you get any is very small (OK if you are studio shooter doing knitware and fashion all day long for layouts - we may talk about it - but then all the MF backs don´t have an anialiasing filter - are they used for Fashion - you bet !)

    the lenses may become a bit soft (oversampling) at that resolution which is actually perfect as a physical limiter for Moiree !

    As a confirmation I can give you a resumee on the talk I had last year with Guido Krebs from Canon Germany (the one who writes all these Books) and he confirmed that he has also asked in Japan to get future bodies without antialiasing filter as PRO Versions which could be marketed better (see leica) and would even help save costs (any lowpass filter of decent quality costs money of course!).

    And yes my sensorcleaning functions perfectly,the removed bluegreen filter is replaced by an optical identic plane Schott glass with same refraction index. It needs SOME knowledge to do this- this is the reason the other companies can´t .

    Greetings from Munich
    Stefan
    Last edited by Stefan Steib; 21st December 2011 at 00:23.
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
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    Re: New D4 D800 rumour

    hmmm, jan 6 announce time to put NPS order in?

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    Re: New D4 D800 rumour

    See here Lloyd Chambers blog about the Antialiasing filter and the D800:

    http://diglloyd.com/blog/2011/20111219_1-NIkon36.html

    and I want to add - with software like Phase One Capture you can control Moiree very good and partial, so you can enjoy the higher overall resolution even with the sharpest lenses and - if needed, mask the moiree area and apply the Moiree filter. pretty painless and straight forward.

    regards
    Stefan
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
    facebook:hcam.de - www.hcam.de - www.hartblei.de

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    Senior Subscriber Member Steen's Avatar
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    AA filter free


    Thank you, Vivek and Stefan.

    I think I'll stick to my plan then and go with the non-AA filter version. That is, if I buy it at all, it depends on the price - the price needs to indicate that the camera has tool character.

    If the rumor is true and the body is born without the AA filter from the beginning, there will be no need for a sensor surgery.

    And if the high pixel count with a rather small 4.9 µm pixel pitch is the precondition for Nikon's decision to finally make a non-AA version, then I'll just have to decide once and for all to be happy with all those many millions of pixels

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    Re: New D4 D800 rumour

    If high ISO performance is at least as good as in the D700, then this 36MP D800 without AA filter would definitely be my choice! And maybe the initiation to sell my MFD gear ....

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    Re: New D4 D800 rumour

    Actually if the marketing department does not make another decision a camera without an antialiasing filter should be CHEAPER than the one with it ! Maybe not that much, but 20-50 € ?

    But I´m nearly sure this will be like the missing Leica red dot - charge for something not being there and call it Professional , which it is, just...... ;-)

    Lets see !

    Greetings from Munich
    Stefan
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
    facebook:hcam.de - www.hcam.de - www.hartblei.de

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    Re: New D4 D800 rumour

    Yeah, it should be cheaper and if they sell it without the Bayer filter it should be even less. Take the UV/IR cut filter and the price should go down even further! But would that happen?

    I bet it will not!

    You know what the achromatic+ sales pitch is? It is a 3 in one digital back.

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    Re: New D4 D800 rumour

    Vivek

    that´s not as simple as you think. The Achromatic+ is made by Phase One for Bearimages in California. The numbers done are very small. Phase does not use this version of the Kodak chip, so they buy it in small numbers - thus the higher price. And as there is a very small market for this also, the sales and service and support efforts are definitely higher than with a normal Phase Back.
    And - this is a multipurpose device. Definitely true.
    You can do normal color (3 shot with filterwheel + Bluegreen on Lens)
    Normal BW with Bluegreen on Lens
    UV BW with UV Pass and
    N-IR BW with IR Pass
    so actually this is a 4 purpose device (whereas most people do not remember the Filter wheels, I do have one left over from My Leaf DCB,
    even a Horseman ISS electronic shutter for this, so with a little batching this could give really nice color shots with about the same physical resolution as an 80 Mpix Bayer back )

    Greetings from Munich
    Stefan
    Last edited by Stefan Steib; 22nd December 2011 at 07:14.
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
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    Re: New D4 D800 rumour

    Along the same lines...why would Nikon not sell a cam without the AA as sharper than the 36MP 36MP camera?

  42. #92
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    Re: New D4 D800 rumour

    Maybe you´re right, but I guess the vast majority of people will buy the AAless version - and then they will probably make some 10k maybe 100k cameras of this, this would probably make a difference, compared to the Achromatic+ ...... ;-)

    Regards
    Stefan
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
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    Re: New D4 D800 rumour

    Despite the tall claims and the fabulous price, is a there a decent demonstration (manufacturer/dealer/user) of all the capabilities of the Achromatic+ back?:sleep006:

    I am not interested in fondling a digi back in person. AFAIK, the claims aren't backed up by any real images done with proper techniques. Plain and simple.
    Last edited by Vivek; 22nd December 2011 at 13:41. Reason: To cut the OT posts to a minimum.

  44. #94
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    Re: New D4 D800 rumour

    Quite simple - contact Jim Taskett at bearimages.com
    he should be able to give you the address of the closest dealer for the US.

    Phase has listed the back too, so I guess either the Netherlands Phase distributor EOM Design Dick-Jan van den Berg +31 205858333
    or Phase One Germany should be able to set you up for a demo.
    Call Carsten Wieser in Cologne Tel.: +49 (0)221/5402260

    regards
    Stefan Steib
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
    facebook:hcam.de - www.hcam.de - www.hartblei.de

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    Re: New D4 D800 rumour

    so i need a camera for travel stuff where the images will be published and exhibited in large prints. assume the D800 is the way to go rather than D4? just want to get my order in soon. does anyone know if NPS will even acknowledge the camera for early delivery
    program?

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