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Could there be no D4x due to the D800 ??
- Thread starter jvora
- Start date
Jorgen Udvang
Subscriber Member
There's a market for a D4X if Nikon can build in enough features to make it an attractive option. The first thing hat spring to my mind is more processing capacity, but also things like built in ND-filter, selectable AA-filter as mentioned above, hybrid viewfinder etc.
While it often seems as if everything useful has been included in a product, the suppliers manage to churn out another new gadget or two. Would any of us have anticipated the kind of cameras we are using now, say ten years ago? It will never end.
While it often seems as if everything useful has been included in a product, the suppliers manage to churn out another new gadget or two. Would any of us have anticipated the kind of cameras we are using now, say ten years ago? It will never end.
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if there's going to be a d4x, i imagine three viable options off the top of my head:
1) larger than FX format a la leica S2, or slightly larger at 32x48 perhaps (i.e., stitch 4 DX sensors together...taking the sony 24mp sensor for example, that's a 96mp beast).
2) scale up the sony 24mp DX sensor to 54mp
3) scale up the nikon 1 sensor to 72mp
option 3 would be hideously diffraction limited, technically...but the nikon 1 actually takes remarkable photos for what it is, and scaled up, i imagine it would be pretty mind blowing. i would bet the sheer resolution would do a fair job of fighting off the diffraction, in effect.
option 1 would be using a noisier sensor, but at 96mp and MF size, does it even matter?
1) larger than FX format a la leica S2, or slightly larger at 32x48 perhaps (i.e., stitch 4 DX sensors together...taking the sony 24mp sensor for example, that's a 96mp beast).
2) scale up the sony 24mp DX sensor to 54mp
3) scale up the nikon 1 sensor to 72mp
option 3 would be hideously diffraction limited, technically...but the nikon 1 actually takes remarkable photos for what it is, and scaled up, i imagine it would be pretty mind blowing. i would bet the sheer resolution would do a fair job of fighting off the diffraction, in effect.
option 1 would be using a noisier sensor, but at 96mp and MF size, does it even matter?
P
princesspan
Guest
In my opinion...theree would still be a D4x..Ive been waiting for it for a long time..Nikon wouldnt let us down!!!
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Wayne Fox
Workshop Member
As a dealer, based on the types of users that buy cameras, I would strongly suspect there will be no D4x ... at least for some time. Maybe in the future they might migrate the new sensor into the D4 body, but the demand for this type of body is pretty low. The same applies for the D1x .. I don't suspect a high resolution version of this from Canon at least for some time.
Currently the market seems to be in 3 or 4 distinct segments. the top two you have the sports/news shooters who need rugged, fast, high ISO, fast focus. Birders and wildlife shooters usually like the same gear. Then you have the people shooters and the landscape shooters and the like. There are a LOT more of them, and they are much more budget conscious. Resolution is their priority, and current ISO performance makes them happy. (when I mean a lot, i'm talking in the order of hundreds to 1). the d800 and the comparable Canon is their bread and butter pro camera.
Canon found this out the 5D Mark2, which pretty much killed sales of the 1Ds Mark3. 1D Mark3/4's still had a certain following, but hardly anyone wanted a 1Ds3. Certainly there are exceptions to this, but that's the current reality.
I applaud them both, because they could have chosen a different path, forcing the ones that wanted the higher resolution to pay for all the other technology that goes into their top of the line cameras (which is a substantial expense). This is where Nikon has been over the past few years with the D3x and they have lost shooters to canon because the cost was too high. You could buy a 5dMark2 and a couple of good canon lenses for less than a d3x.
Now they've got it right, and looks like they've hit a home run with the combo of the D4/d800. Many of those Nikon shooters that moved to Canon still have their glass ... some will be coming back.
As a dealer we still feel Nikon had a hole in their line up but today we met with the rep. We were excited today that despite the announcement we moved the final d700 body - nothing like getting stuck with a body no one wants (such as the 1DMark4's I have gathering dust on the shelf). According to our rep (and yes, reps don't always know everything) the Nikon d700 is not being discontinued, but will shortly see a price adjustment. If they drop it far enough it will work out well. Smart too ... it's still a great camera, so why not leverage the technology a little longer.
Currently the market seems to be in 3 or 4 distinct segments. the top two you have the sports/news shooters who need rugged, fast, high ISO, fast focus. Birders and wildlife shooters usually like the same gear. Then you have the people shooters and the landscape shooters and the like. There are a LOT more of them, and they are much more budget conscious. Resolution is their priority, and current ISO performance makes them happy. (when I mean a lot, i'm talking in the order of hundreds to 1). the d800 and the comparable Canon is their bread and butter pro camera.
Canon found this out the 5D Mark2, which pretty much killed sales of the 1Ds Mark3. 1D Mark3/4's still had a certain following, but hardly anyone wanted a 1Ds3. Certainly there are exceptions to this, but that's the current reality.
I applaud them both, because they could have chosen a different path, forcing the ones that wanted the higher resolution to pay for all the other technology that goes into their top of the line cameras (which is a substantial expense). This is where Nikon has been over the past few years with the D3x and they have lost shooters to canon because the cost was too high. You could buy a 5dMark2 and a couple of good canon lenses for less than a d3x.
Now they've got it right, and looks like they've hit a home run with the combo of the D4/d800. Many of those Nikon shooters that moved to Canon still have their glass ... some will be coming back.
As a dealer we still feel Nikon had a hole in their line up but today we met with the rep. We were excited today that despite the announcement we moved the final d700 body - nothing like getting stuck with a body no one wants (such as the 1DMark4's I have gathering dust on the shelf). According to our rep (and yes, reps don't always know everything) the Nikon d700 is not being discontinued, but will shortly see a price adjustment. If they drop it far enough it will work out well. Smart too ... it's still a great camera, so why not leverage the technology a little longer.
bowlachili
New member
If Nikon were to release a D700s update with the D3s sensor (video, high ISO), you'd have two great cameras (D700s and D800) filling different but complementary needs, and the D700s would not cannibalize on the D4 sales (older tech, lower MP, slower AF, smaller buffer vis a vis D4). And given Nikon's history of reusing sensors, this makes perfect sense (plus it further recoups RD and production costs already in place).
But, I may just be dreaming....
Agnius
Member
Ever tried using a manual focus lens on D700 (or Canon 1DS)? It is painful - I can hardly see things through it. Maybe Sony A900 is better, but I have never tried it. Nikon D3 viewinder was wonderful to look through - I could actually see what I was focusing. So yeah, just because of viewfinder and my manual lenses I would like D4x. Actually, what I would like to see is d800 HP.
Doesn't the new D800/E have a 100% viewfinder, compared to the 97/98% of the D700?
With this, is there really a need to the D4X, and what do you guys really expect from it, apart from more MP? I'm asking because I'm curious as to what the D800/E will not give you now?
Agnius
Member
Well, Canon 1Ds also has 100% viewfinder, but it is still so difficult to use manual focus lenses. I don't think it is the size %, it is "exit pupil". Canon no longer has it (shame, as I like the quality of the files it produces) and Nikon D3 (and D4 I hope) does. So specs be damned, seeing is believing.
Why on earth would you need a fast frame rate with a D4x?
Jorgen Udvang
Subscriber Member
I'm at an air show at the moment. Fast frame rate, a deep buffer and lots of megapixels, yes, please. Even the D2Xs runs out of buffer space on occasions here (typically when a fighter plane makes a sharp turn with afterburner and all).
Lars
Active member
That was referring to the post above mine that asked for simply replacing the D4 sensor with the D800 sensor. Lots more data to process so for that to make sense processing capacity would have to be beefed up. Otherwise you might as well get a D800 with a grip.