Most definitely exciting times. It should be extremely interesting when the D800E is put through its paces and accurate and real world assesments can be made with regards to various lens performance and requirements in order to extract maximum potential from it's sensor. When this is done, especially with the raw files, we'll all have a better handle on the capability and strengths and possible weaknesses of this camera.
It will be interesting to see how the resulting D800e images will compare "head on" to medium format, especially to the current crop of 40MP models. No doubt the medium format manufacturers are well aware of the situation regarding competition and although it might take quite some time, I'm sure will respond by upping the ante, in making their entry level 40 MP backs (or cameras in the case of the 645D) competitive in both pricing structures, technology, and/or raising the MP level for these backs/cameras...all to increase the level of image quality output. Of course there are obvious differences between a 40MP MF backs & cameras vs. a 36MP 35mm DSLR, but those real and perceived differences are not always recognized by those who initially contemplate making a move from 35mm to MF and often only go simply by "the MP numbers".
I'm personally waiting to see and eventually try out optics on a D800E body when lenses are shot at the more open apertures. Something tells me that even the best lenses currently out there, are going to be "stressed" when performance across the entire frame is considered, when shot at wider apertures....although of course for landscape shooters, their target f-stop will be close to the diffraction limit.
This is where cameras like the S2 may have a distinct advanatge, in the ability of the lenses for that system, to be shot close to wide open and still take advantage of resolving power of the entire system. It remains to be seen how the D800E compares, in general.
Last edited by D&A; 8th February 2012 at 07:52.
Well, it turns out that they haven't actually left out the AA filter - they've just changed it so that it does't blur the image.
If you scroll down near the bottom you'll see details of the AA filter and why they don't charge less. (seems like a strange definition of NO AA FILTER to me!)
Rob Galbraith link
Interestingly - I was at my local pusher, and he said that he had 130 pre orders for the 800, and only 35 for the 800e.
I'd guess that for those who haven't previously had a camera without AA filter (most Nikon users) then the 800 sounds like a safer bet.
Just this guy you know
Actually, looking at the Nikon examples, I am not sure the AA filter is having a real impact. I hope someone does a direct comparison, but I think there may be nothing in it.Him: Can I buy a $3300 camera?
Him: It is the only camera I will ever need.
Her: That is what you always say!
Him: Well, I could get it for less than $3000...
Even Canon hasn't offered better with their 1Dx samples for the same reason (which look quite disappointing at this stage, actually).
Luckily for me, my canon lenses are all 'L II', and I never kept the 16-35, I don't think this is a good lens, perhaps it is to others!
On top of all my reading, it was described either on the Nikon site or from their testers, that the higher MP has brought in the effects of MF, that bad handling picks up more blur (from shake/vibration) and shooting in higher shutter speeds or using a tripod is more advised in certain circumstances, this to me is very interesting .... don't know what to make of it until I get one in my hands.
As much as I love my Canons and L lenses, if they can't come up with a decent body soon, I might just can the whole platform. Truth be told, since going Leica (and Hassy) back in 2008 I've been using the Canon stuff less and less to the point I hardly use it anymore. With the cash I could buy a nice MF system instead.
Whether this camera fits your needs or not the D800 will be a home run for Nikon and they will sell everyone they can build. I also see some who trash the V1 but despite those views this has also been a huge success for them. Between the D4 and D800 Nikon is going to have a very good year.
Once I got a D3x I was amazed by the tonality, detail and robustness of the files.
I sold my D3 and D700 and never looked back.
The D800E will be another step forward. I expect the files to be mind blowing.
Will they be as good as a $40,000 MF camera?
In my hands, much, much better.
In the hands of a tripod using, low ISO MF master? I don't actually care.
For me, it's gold.
I'm also excited that Nikon brought the low volume E model to market for just $300 more.
Once I have a D4 and a D800E I imagine my D3x will be on the block.
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I have to agree with you. While MFD has it's amazing capabilities, the fact that I have to rob a bank to pay for one and keep a DSLR around for the low-light, fast action stuff I usually shoot keeps me from making the jump. While the D800E is not an MFDB by any stretch of the imagination, it's good enough for me.
Well some of us Nikon DSLR users have experience with their cameras coming direct from the factory with no AA filter. But the last one was in 1998 or so, before the D1.
The Nikon D1 pictures lack the Pop that the Nikon E3 pictures have.
I paid Kodak an extra $4000 to leave the IR cut filter off of a DCS200. They had to do a custom run of the CCD's through the Fab line. That was 20 years ago. Process change and testing can be expensive for smaller runs.
I'm glad to see the D800e in Nikon's line-up.
I just rip these AA/UV/IR filter stacks out myself and convert them for multi-spectral or UV only or IR only use.
I do have an ongoing (ambitious) project to get rid of the Bayer dyes to have a true monochrome cam. It would be D40x or a D200 or a D300- all are lined up for this purpose.
I wonder if Kodak's original process of annealing the cover glass with the IR cut filter is responsible for it going 20 years and still working. The cover glass is impossible to remove. I tried with one.
Other cameras- the filters are easily removed.
I've read that some people have used acetone to take off the Mosaic color filters. This would not work on the Kodak sensors- the RGB filter is under the cover glass.
The sensors I have looked at (Sony & Panasonic) have a permanent clear glass cover, hermetically sealing the sensor. This is is epoxied. It is quite a task to remove it without damaging the sensor. After that one gets to see the sensor with a Microlens layer and under that are the Bayer dyes. No acetone (nail polish remover) won't cut it for any of these operations.
Each of these operations warrant multiple sacrifices.
The Leica S2 has no image stabilization. That makes a tremendous difference; I can handhold the Sony a850 and 24-70 down to 1/25 pretty easily, especially with a vertical grip and a pole or something to lean against. I seriously expect Nikon to announce a 24-70/2.8 VR before long.
And the S2 lenses are slower. Which means shooting wide open in limited light you have to use a higher ISO than on a D800 - and a shorter shutter speed due to no VR. It adds up.
D800 is a pretty cool camera that ups the ante over cameras like the Canon 5D-II and Sony A900/850 for those wanting a high resolution 35mm DSLR at a reasonable price point. For those users, what's not to love?
Personally, I'll wait for the Sony entry since every lens I have for it is already stabilized, and I subjectively prefer the Zeiss rendering and Sony's take on color over that of Nikon by a good margin.
Congratulations to Nikon users! Nikon has come a long way in just a few years.
IMO, the comparison should be against the crop of 35mm DSLRs and any user's specific needs ... including against Nikon's own D4 and any strong rumor indications from other makers. Real need and actual applications should be the criteria I would think.
Impact on MFD? Probably. It'll lessen the dreams of an incremental move to the low end of MFD for people that would have to make a large financial "systems" commitment based on number of pixels alone. For those that grasp the whole MFD IQ story, this camera won't mean much ... unless they can't afford it ... in which case, it's not an issue, they aren't a true prospect for MFD anyway.
This camera also solves an age-old dilemma for those who travel and had to agonize over what to take to do walk-abouts and street shooting, and also capture high res renderings of the exotic sites. What a wonderful solution, a really small powerhouse of a camera that will fit many shooters needs, but not all.
I do not care about any comparisons, just ordered my D800E
The best camera released ever IMHO
Life is an ever changing journey
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To E or not to E ...
On the Japanese Nikon website there is a comparison of D800 and D800E with regards to resolution and moiré.
D800 / D800E
At the middle of the page click the blue link below the pictures of the stone picture and the kimono picture respectively.
The comparison to the right of the images will slowly pop up.
So even in these samples the D800E looks more impressive to me
Below is a link to the comparison page in English.
Nikon | Imaging Products | Nikon's original technology - Nikon D800/D800E
Thanks for the link, Ben
I agree with you, Peter
so if the prices of the Standard version and the E version were more or less the same I would also go with the E version ...
or maybe I'll just sit on my hands and wait forever for the camera I really want: the true entry level FF 16 Mp Nikon D750XLPP*
*extra large pixel pitch (or something like that)
I have this obsession with big and bright optical viewfinders
and big, fat photosites
oldfashioned, I guess
I can help wondering if my old Nikon lenses just appreciated or depreciated in value on the second hand market... 85/1.4D, 135/2D DC, 16/2.8D Fisheye, 20/2.8D, 50/1.8 AIs, 180/2.8D, 12-24/4G DX, 80-200/2.8D, 300/4 AF... any good on a D800/E?
From my own experience, especially the 180/2.8D and 300/4 are razor sharp, but that's on a D700... oh wait, I did use them on my D2X as well, that should be closer to D800 pixel pitch.
only the high end high speed D4 is not exactly 'entry level', pricewise
and I also prefer the smaller form factor
being the slowest gun in The West I could do with a very basic and very slow entry level FF model
not at all an easy decision for me
either I can just sit and wait (for how long?)
or pay what it takes to shoot the D800 while waiting for the D750XLPP
sigh, deep thoughts ...
yes, you are probably right, Lars, but it bothers me a little to use too much money on the three and a half year old D700
if at least they would put the D3S sensor into a D700S model it would feel more like sort of a new and up to date camera
but if as you say there will actually be a significant price drop on the D700 then it might be a sensible FF choice while waiting
do you remember where you have seen this hint ?
EDIT: NikonRumors mentioned the same thing: Nikon D800 vs. D700 specs comparison | Nikon Rumors
"I was told that the D700 will go down in price in the next few days - in France for example, the price is expected to drop from the current EUR 2,100 to EUR 1,800. I have no confirmation about US prices yet."
Last edited by Lars; 13th February 2012 at 14:13.
Thanks, Lars !
- - - - -
Here's a link to some full sized high ISO samples
Nikon D800 High ISO Image Samples
NB: The images are JPEGs, straight out of the camera.
Not only high ISI is looking pretty impressive, also the resolution at lower ISO.
Cannot wait to get my hands on my D800E
John L Dobson
Editor, Ffestiniog Railway Magazine
I just looked at second hand prices on ebay, D700 doesnt seem to be dropping sharp.
D3x is another story though, my guess is that even though supply is limited, demand is almost nonexistent until D800 gets a chance to prove itself.
so much for the so-called friendly tone around here
I had the opportunity to handle the D800 + D800E as well as the D4 two days ago at a Nikon demo event in a store.
I'm looking forward to upgrade from my D300 for the larger end brighter optical viewfinder alone.
But in general I can assure you that each of them looks delicious and feels good in the hands, brilliant high-end design, despite my secret wish for a 'DM3A' some day
Unfortunately we were not allowed to shoot with our own memory cards, rather disappointing though probably to be expected.
I see no reason to doubt that the E version with the cancelled Anti-Aliasing filtration will be a fabulous candidate for your landscape shooting, Peter
Steen, The EM-5 comes close to your DM3A.
Check out the links in this with the images at 100% and upscaled 4X.
43 Rumors | Blog | New Olympus E-M5 news roundup...(new E-M5 accessories and info abotu Four Thirds lens support)