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Nikon D800 First Blush

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Here we have some high ISO stuff

14-24 lens at 16mm F5.6 at ISO 3200



same lens at 24mm 5.6 ISO 1600



14mm at F5 ISO 4000



14mm at F3.2 ISO 4000



24mm at F8 ISO 1600

 

MGrayson

Subscriber and Workshop Member
Guy,

Thank you for the pictures!

Is it that I'm reading this thread on a laptop screen, or are all the red patches almost monochromatic. It looks like there is subtlety in every other color, but there is only one Red. This holds for the outdoor umbrellas as well as the indoor shots.

Must be the laptop...

--Matt
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
Matt,

Good catch. As I mentioned in the D800 v MF thread, tonal separation -- especially in the reds and somewhat still in the greens -- is still problematic, at least as compared to MF capture. It's one of several reasons why this camera cannot replace MF for me.
 

jonoslack

Active member
Matt,

Good catch. As I mentioned in the D800 v MF thread, tonal separation -- especially in the reds and somewhat still in the greens -- is still problematic, at least as compared to MF capture. It's one of several reasons why this camera cannot replace MF for me.
Hi Jack . . . I thought the reds and greens was a Nikon problem?
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
Hi Jack . . . I thought the reds and greens was a Nikon problem?
Greens have been a DIGITAL problem all along, but MF cracked it a few generations back. To date, neither Nikon or Canon or even Leica has totally cracked it. Leica M9 remains IMHO best in smaller format cameras, with this new Nikon right behind it. Reds may be the raw converter, so I am holding back on full judgement until I have more time with the files. I can tell you it aint MF skin tone quality under any circumstance...
 

routlaw

Member
I downloaded the piano photo to see the noise for myself and honest I can't see what the fuss is about. it's certainly far better overall than the 5D MKII and no worse considering the huge increase in resolution than the D700 at base ISO. I'm making judgements based on using both of these cameras and processing the D800 sample as I'd do to get it how I like. If I shot this scene with tranny I'd be left with an almost two tone waste of film. I guess seeing as I primarily use film that is what really matters.
I don't necessarily disagree with your comments but don't have any experience with the 5D MKII. My concerns have been based solely from DxO test results claiming this camera to have a DR of 14.4 EVS. If you flatten or zero out all adjustments in LR or ACR beta 6.7, eliminate noise reduction, USM et al, all three RGB channels do have significant amount of noise. The RGB values (with noise) in the piano range from single digits up to the low 20's but it gets worse by running up the fill light 100%, reducing contrast by 50% and pushing the recovery to 100% in order to decrease the contrast and bring up values. Those values then are in the 30's, 40's and 50's. Considering this image is made in broad daylight at base ISO shot at 1/60th of a second (hardly slow enough to need noise reduction in the first place) these results don't add up to the DxO scores. I would hope DxO does not employ noise reduction to test cameras, otherwise the results are skewed even further.

The issue is not with Nikon and the D800, but rather the methods that DxO uses to assess the cameras. Based on this image they seem rubbish to me. A camera that truly had a DR of 14.4 f-stops should have smooth as butter imagery in all 3 channels at these values and feel very confident in stating my D3 and D4 would have, let alone my Betterlight scan back with its very fat 12 micron sensor.

By comparison one of the first test I did with my D4 was a 30 second and 1 minute exposure inside our house at night using only the house incandescent lights with no auxiliary lighting. Effectively this was a non event with noise.

I have a D800 coming to me on demo/loan this weekend and will do the same setup. Be interesting to see the comparisons.
 

jonoslack

Active member
Greens have been a DIGITAL problem all along, but MF cracked it a few generations back. To date, neither Nikon or Canon or even Leica has totally cracked it. Leica M9 remains IMHO best in smaller format cameras, with this new Nikon right behind it. Reds may be the raw converter, so I am holding back on full judgement until I have more time with the files. I can tell you it aint MF skin tone quality under any circumstance...
Hi Jack - I was being flippant, but it's true that a dislike for Nikon colour has stopped me jumping on this particular bandwagon (been there 3 times and always come to the same conclusion).

Interesting though that you don't even mention Sony or Olympus (or Fuji come to that) It seems to me that Canon and Nikon trail all three of them in terms of colour rendition - I still think that the A900 does better than anything else for smaller format colour (and yes, that means better than the M9). You don't mention Olympus either (maybe they aren't worth mentioning?) but they do well with colour rendition, and whatever the practical shortcomings of the new Fuji cameras, there doesn't seem to be much room for criticism of the IQ or colour rendition.


Personally I'm cautiously impressed with the D800, but I want to see some shots taken in evening light before I'd even consider biting.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Guy,

Thank you for the pictures!

Is it that I'm reading this thread on a laptop screen, or are all the red patches almost monochromatic. It looks like there is subtlety in every other color, but there is only one Red. This holds for the outdoor umbrellas as well as the indoor shots.

Must be the laptop...

--Matt

Not sure those umbrellas are truly red but more a burgundy tone. One problem all weekend was i never really got full sun so i am a little hesitant on colors until we get this under bright light a little more. I guess just a little early to call it. But there are going to be some nits for sure and we just need to find all of them. On color we can also make presets and such to fine tune this stuff. Not overly concerned yet on that. On the inside shots folks I shot daylight under tungsten light so yes it will be warm. I did not switch to tungsten on the camera. I did however on some lower the color temp. So not critical color so be aware of that end.
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
Routlaw: FTR I do not believe DXo test results have any relation to how well one can render final images. For that you have to look at the combined effects of capture and processing.

Jono: I was never bowled over by Sony reds, and especially skin, but agree their greens were decent.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
On DXO it is meaningless to me without final processing from good raw converters . To me it means zilch until you have a final high res tiff that has been processed correctly. I'm sorry but i am just a final image junkie on this stuff. I could care less whats going on before it hits the processor. DXO takes none of that into account. Sorry harsh cold reality. This is about Art and science is only a part of the art. Flame suit on. LOL
 
This is about Art and science is only a part of the art. Flame suit on. LOL
Well, it doesn't HAVE to be a numbers vs. eyes dichotomy. When the perceptual science is good, the metrics correlate very well with subjective experience.

But the consensus here is that DXO's metrics correlate poorly. This is unfortunate, but it doesn't mean that the whole enterprise is folly. Just DXO's particular approach to it leaves much to be desired.
 

Paratom

Well-known member
This is the 180mm at F5 and it still was not tuned perfectly which yesterday I got it all tuned dead on here it was 9 points off but still not bad. I am going back out and shoot some real images with it. Its really my only concern lens of my set which includes 14-24, 35 1.4 G, 50 1.8G which I have not shot yet, 85 1.4 G and the 180

For my taste this particular image is the best of all in this thread regarding color, tones and overall look.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Okay some more images the 35mm 1.4 G wide open. And yes I drank it all but a very busy background but you folks need to see this stuff.



another of the same



Switching gears the 180mm and I'm still on the fence. I fined tuned it better after this so reason i need to get out again with it. But not bad

ISO 250 wide open in crap overcast light



This one at 3.2



Than switching to the 85 1.4 G wide open

 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
For my taste this particular image is the best of all in this thread regarding color, tones and overall look.
Its the only one with the sun partly out. You need to pay attention to some of my comments as to color I shot all weekend under a cloud. There is no real punch until we hit the sun. Thats with any cam.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Thats it for now , need to get out and shoot in better light no doubt to evalute this cam better. But its a start
 

sflxn

New member
Guy, what do you think of the colors compared to MF? From what I'm seeing in the photos, it still has the 35mm CMOS look. The dynamic range is very likely real, but one thing I've love about MF and CCD look is the colors. It's very hard to reproduce the look in post processing. It's just a preference.
 
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