My quick D800 versus E test

[tashley]

Very quick, busy weekend!

D800 and E on Gitzo CF with Cube, Zeiss 100mm Makro F2 at F5.6, both shots given identical treatment in LR with LR default sharpening but Camera Standard profile, shots individually WB from same spot (light shifted slightly between exposures).

Manually focussed in LV.

Ran this from F2 thru F8 and in each case the differences were similar.

91% full sized JPEGs developed from RAW.

Not a procedurally perfect test, too busy, but mildly telling. I shot a bunch more and had a quick look, including on the 24-120. I know what I think! What do you guys think?

Details in EXIF on my Zenfolio. You can download full sized files and play.

http://tashley1.zenfolio.com/img/s3/v42/p372194260.jpg


http://tashley1.zenfolio.com/img/s3/v44/p499233119.jpg

 

[BCMielke]

Does Lightroom open the D800e files? I thought I had the latest update and Bridge does not.

 

[Bill_Green]

Can you sharpen the D800 to match the look of the E? What I'm trying to figure out is whether you get a level of detail from the E that the D800 can't match, or whether that detail can be retrieved. In lightroom, try moving the detail slider all the way to the right and see what you get.

 

[fotografz]

What accounts for the difference in the far left roof? #60 shows black marks, and 19 doesn't.

Very close ... seems #60 has a bit more snap. Very little.

-Marc

 

[BSEH]

Hmm i think it shows significant difference, and not making my life more easy... and worth it thinking one have to struggle with moier ??


:talk028: some one make my life easy and decide...

 

[tashley]

What "significant difference" do you see?

What are your concerns about moiré? I shoot with two cameras that don't have anti-aliasing filters (M9 and IQ180) and moiré isn't a deal-breaker issue. I've encountered moiré in bird feathers using a D2X (which has an anti-aliasing filter) when I was photographing wildlife.

I'll decide for you. Buy the D800E. In general, your images will be sharper right out of the camera and any moiré can be removed in post-processing. I'l await my commission for making your life easier. :ROTFL:

+1
Buy the E. even at 50% with a good lens you can see the difference. Better micro contrast as well as more detail. Looks and feels closer to MF. Moire? I can't tell yet but the pixel pitch is about the same as an IQ180 and I live with that very happily...

 

[BSEH]

thanks Im a happy man again... beer and popcorn for you :watch:

Really never have to deal with moier, so i dont know what to expect. You say easy to remove, some says hard and not posible to gat 100% of.

I find it more then just a little bit sharper, i can sharpen the D800 up to D800E no problem, but less detail. In a A2 landscape print, i think It's i will be significant.

But really just guessing

 

[vjbelle]

I would be very surprised if 60 were not the E version. Thanks for posting.

Victor

 

[tashley]

Can you sharpen the D800 to match the look of the E? What I'm trying to figure out is whether you get a level of detail from the E that the D800 can't match, or whether that detail can be retrieved. In lightroom, try moving the detail slider all the way to the right and see what you get.

Mostly but not totally.. Fine detail like some of the pigeon spikes on the roof (right) are lost beyond sharpening. Other details can be sharpened to give a fair match, but the micro contrast still wins for the E...and sharpening has side effects. There's no free lunch here: if you want the best quality file (excluding issues of moire) then E is the way to go.

 

[ustein]

>You say easy to remove, some says hard and not posible to gat 100% of.

Some moire cannot be removed in SW I would say. I have seen lots of moire with cameras that feature an AA filter.

This said I would not worry to use the D800E (just a limited budget).

 

[paulraphael]

I'd like to know what the differences are in a print. Specifically, what size range of print would both look good and would show a visible difference between these two files.

 

[Jack]

Thanks Tim. Not much difference that I can discern.

Joe, I am with you 110%... Yes there is a small difference in the finest details of the image, but doubtful it will show in even the largest of prints.

 

[T.Karma]

I find the difference is quite apparent. #60 has more presence and #19 looks slightly "subdued". #60 has more CA in the highlights and probably gets overexposed more easily.

 

[jonoslack]

Well - I'm never very good at these tests, and I wasn't expecting to see a great deal of difference here . . . . but in this case it seems to me to be pretty seriously obvious, and I'd have thought that, (although you might need a very big print to actually notice the difference in detail), that the prints would look fairly different, and the D800E considerably better.

On the basis of this I'd definitely go for the 800E. . . . as for moire, it seems to be easiest to deal with in Aperture (at least easier than Capture 1 and Lightroom). But, honestly, having shot several weddings and thousands upon thousands of shots with a pair of M8s and then a pair of M9s I wouldn't give moire a second thought.

D800e for me . . . . . OH! I forgot . . . I'm not buying either

 

[BSEH]

Joe, I am with you 110%... Yes there is a small difference in the finest details of the image, but doubtful it will show in even the largest of prints.

Jack you do not believe that the difference could be seen in print?

 

[pophoto]

I would say #19 has a pretty girl walking past second build from right, #60 doesn't

Otherwise I agree with T.Karma's observations, except perhaps about the overexposed more easily part.

 

[jonoslack]

HI Tim
I think i'd like to see how you get on with some medium sized prints. . . can you tell the difference at A3 for instance (I'd stick my neck out and expect that you can).

all the best

 

[BSEH]

I would say #19 has a pretty girl walking past second build from right, #60 doesn't

Otherwise I agree with T.Karma's observations, except perhaps about the overexposed more easily part.

You forget the Bird on #19

 

[Jack]

Here is a 100% view screen grab of them side by side in Photoshop, and I even left the image numbers visible -- didn't really matter since it had started raining for your beloved #60 and more things are wet (and roof tiles are slightly more saturated because they're wet), so it's easy to figure it out anyway. Let the discussions begin:

And here are a few more areas of the frame for additional fodder -- again at 100%:

 

[vjbelle]

My take on this is that I want whatever little sharpness gain possible..... especially at this price point. Who knows what the future will allow us to do with these files... The 'E' is finding a home in my home

Victor