David Schneider
New member
And at f4 or f5.6
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D800E vs Hasselblad unofficial unprofessional comparision
- Thread starter donaldt
- Start date
Chris Giles
New member
It really surprises me that the majority of comparison shots are brick walls, buildings or a tree. When we do see the occasional living thing it tends to be under studio light.
but I only have the Zeiss 85 1.4 (which might in fact be better)
at some point I will do a studio test on 100/2.2 on Hasselblad Vs 85/1.4 on D800E
in fact I would hope the D800E to be so good or so close I will sell the Hasselblad altogether
An important thing to consider is that with the D800 you can have several or a couple of lenses of the same focal length with very nice but different looks.
For example lets look at 85mm.
Nikon 85mm 1.4g .... wide open it has a sort of "touch of fantasy"
Zeiss 85mm 1.4g .... more of a "realism" look.
Nikon 85mm PC-E .... perspective control, focus control
Edge Optic 80mm .... not hi res particularly hi res, but designed for beautiful soft looks and deliberate flare, with a beautiful 12 blade round iris.
If you compare this range of options compared to the limited options MFD systems give you it is a game changer IMHO.
Hasselblad only offers the 100mm 2.2 .... lovely lens, but it's the only option.
Phase One .... Schneider 110mm 2.8 .... Nice but limiter bokeh. Nice wide open, but not a king of bokeh. Stop it down even one stop and the 5 blade iris rears it's head. Stop down further and it gets nasty if you have any out of focus textures or specular highlights.
If you add to this that you can get all the options with a D800 and still have a bucket of money left over to finance some shooting projects .... well that ever smaller edge in pixel or giant print peeping is of less and less value.
M
Moreorless
Guest
I'd guess the main hope could be that Pentax/Rioch sticks with the 645D, drops the price of the current model to a more competitive level and potentially upgrades to the HD4 50/60 in a new model.
Hassleblad charging a bit of a prenium for new sensors that then filter down to Pentax a few years latter seems like a setup that could have some legs to it and allow for greater R&D spending.
My H4D 40 had better files out of the camera over my 5D2/3's. But by the time the images were corrected and enhanced via Aperture and PS the difference was negligible.
The Hassy was sold (thankfully) before the bottom of MFDB fell recently. I have zero interest in any MF camera (except film MF) right now.
The Hassy was sold (thankfully) before the bottom of MFDB fell recently. I have zero interest in any MF camera (except film MF) right now.
Jan Brittenson
Senior Subscriber Member
I don't know about Camaros, but my Subaru Outback is vastly superior to any Ferrari. I ca n fit five people and their gear - a Ferrari... better be five clowns, because nobody else bends that way. I can drive and park my car at a trailhead without much concern - a Ferrari, don't think so. I can haul a Kayak to a put-in - Ferrari, yeah right. I can drive in snow, sleet, mud, sand, gravel, sand, dirt - Ferrari, better get used to walking. I can fold down the back seats, roll out a pad and sleeping bag, and go to sleep - Ferrari, it's gonna be a looong, uncomfortable night. I can carry any photo gear I conceivably need in the back and have it easily accessible - Ferrari, yeah maybe carry a P&S and a bottle of water in the back seat.
Basically, if I had a Ferrari I'd sell it because it would only take up space in the garage while filling no need or solving any problem. If it got in the port, because those things are pretty wide and our house (Edwardian) has a narrow port since it was retrofitted some 50 years after the house was built.
But a lot of people also assume I use a bicycle to run errands because I can't afford a car. Or ride a MC because I can't afford a car. In reality, a car for me is a pretty crappy form of everyday transportation. It's a hauling and long-distance transportation tool; it excels at that.
I'm probably overextending the car analog more than a little too far. A MF camera certainly is more useful than a Ferrari. But regardless... I don't really need one for my photography.
Basically, if I had a Ferrari I'd sell it because it would only take up space in the garage while filling no need or solving any problem. If it got in the port, because those things are pretty wide and our house (Edwardian) has a narrow port since it was retrofitted some 50 years after the house was built.
But a lot of people also assume I use a bicycle to run errands because I can't afford a car. Or ride a MC because I can't afford a car. In reality, a car for me is a pretty crappy form of everyday transportation. It's a hauling and long-distance transportation tool; it excels at that.
I'm probably overextending the car analog more than a little too far. A MF camera certainly is more useful than a Ferrari. But regardless... I don't really need one for my photography.
Isn't that sort of leaving out some information Fred? Being a FP camera, can't the Phase One DF take a number of different MF lenses also? Same for the Leica S2 and Pentax 645D.
The H camera, while limited in comparison, also allows full coupled use of all the Zeiss CF/CFi/CFE Zeiss optics for a different look. The 40IF/CFE is quite spectacular, the 100/3.5 CFi and 180/4 CFE are no slouches.
Plus, one thing you can't do with a 35mm anything is shoot full power high speed sync ... all the Hasselblad lenses (H and Zeiss V-CF/CFi/CFE) @ 1/800 or 1/500 ... and the S2 does 1/1000 with S/CS versions, or 1/800 with the range of H lenses ... and the DF does up to 1/1600 with the LS lenses (1/1500 with AIR radio).
What I'd like to see is someone like Conrus make a fully E coupled MF adapter for the Contax 645 lenses also.
-Marc
Well Jan, a Ferrari is a beauty beyond compare (well Chris Fisker's Aston Martin DB9 is not that bad either, beauty wise), and nowadays they(the Ferraris) are rather functionel too. But not all dreams have to be fulfilled, then they just disappear. So I just sometimes stand half or 1 hour at the racetrack at Marenello, that's enough. Cutted down: Anything more than a VW Polo are in principle luxuries and unnecessary. Cars is often just about getting from A to B. But .....
And the cameras are just there just to take a silly picture ..... :shocked:
Good grief
Thorkil
I was referring to system lenses with full comparability without adapters.
If we were to add all the 3rd party lenses and lenses with adapters the Nikon would have more options again.
Also add to that the fact that you can use live view with the Nikon for accuracy when using older manual lenses.
In comparison using a Hasselblad 110mm f2 on my Phasee One DF was almost unusable wide open due to the limited magnification of the Df viewfinder and lack of waist level or loup finder. The DF focus confirmation with the 110mm f2 was far from accurate unlike the focus confirmation on both my Canons and Nikon
The Hasselblad H to CF/CFi/CFE adapter is hellishly expensive and not the most reliable gadget out there.
Regarding high speed sync. True you get full power from a studio strobe at higher sync speeds with leaf shutters, but there are workarounds with high speed sync with Nikon and Canon cameras.
You can use multiple Speedlights in high speed sync with Canon and Nikon to increase power.
I use pocket wizard Flex TTL radio triggers with two Elinchrom AS3000 packs into a dual head and get all the power I need. The power loss using high speed focal plane sync is no problem when starting out with 6,000 w/s. When used with the brilliant SL35 Elinchrom fresnel spot I get around f22 at 1/2000 at 15 feet.
Large studio strobe packs can be found at great prices on ebay. Way less than the investment needed in LS lenses.
Another thing to consider is that if you are using flash to overpower the sun you can also use a 3.5 stop neutral density filter and more strobe power to obtain exactly what you get with the best of leaf shutters, but with the advantage of investing in flash rather than the same amount for each lens. The Nikon or Canon workarounds also work from fisheye to tele.
If we were to add all the 3rd party lenses and lenses with adapters the Nikon would have more options again.
Also add to that the fact that you can use live view with the Nikon for accuracy when using older manual lenses.
In comparison using a Hasselblad 110mm f2 on my Phasee One DF was almost unusable wide open due to the limited magnification of the Df viewfinder and lack of waist level or loup finder. The DF focus confirmation with the 110mm f2 was far from accurate unlike the focus confirmation on both my Canons and Nikon
The Hasselblad H to CF/CFi/CFE adapter is hellishly expensive and not the most reliable gadget out there.
Regarding high speed sync. True you get full power from a studio strobe at higher sync speeds with leaf shutters, but there are workarounds with high speed sync with Nikon and Canon cameras.
You can use multiple Speedlights in high speed sync with Canon and Nikon to increase power.
I use pocket wizard Flex TTL radio triggers with two Elinchrom AS3000 packs into a dual head and get all the power I need. The power loss using high speed focal plane sync is no problem when starting out with 6,000 w/s. When used with the brilliant SL35 Elinchrom fresnel spot I get around f22 at 1/2000 at 15 feet.
Large studio strobe packs can be found at great prices on ebay. Way less than the investment needed in LS lenses.
Another thing to consider is that if you are using flash to overpower the sun you can also use a 3.5 stop neutral density filter and more strobe power to obtain exactly what you get with the best of leaf shutters, but with the advantage of investing in flash rather than the same amount for each lens. The Nikon or Canon workarounds also work from fisheye to tele.
Tit for tat, Fred
IMO, the rub is you have to use a Nikon ... subjectively with its Nikon look no matter what you do. As you describe it, it seems all just a system of work arounds ... work around this, work around that ... just to make use of a Nikon to get that Nikon look. Been there done that. No thanks. I DO admit that I wouldn't mind a nice 18 meg Canon 1DX for AF and shooting speed at high ISO with a few f/1.2 lenses for hand-held available light work, that's about as far as 35mm DSLRs interest me these days. Horses for courses.
The Hasselblad CF adapter can be had for $800, but is fully functional stop down operation, not a dumb adapter ... and the H cameras have firmware that recognizes each lens, (CFE lenses automatically). I reliably used two of them for years before I sold all of my V lenses, and have no idea what you are talking about in terms of "...not being the most reliable gadget", except maybe to anecdotally continue your odd crusade against MFD (I guess Phase One really pissed you off, so now everyone has to listen to a one sided, petulant broad based MFD rant at every opportunity
). I can use any lens in the H or V system from Zeiss fisheye (IQ that murders the Nikon version), to Zeiss Tele. Which I can rent when needed, which isn't often.
Now we can use all the H lenses on the S2 from 28mm to 300mm. So, in addition to the 120/2.5 and 180/3.5APO, we have the 100/2.2, 150/3.2N, and 210/4 to work with.
I don't need a T/S lens, I can use a fully articulated view camera with front and back movements with a 60 meg back.
BTW, isn't it the Pocket Wizard Flex system that is the unreliable Gadget if all the posts all over the web are any indication?
Regarding use of strobes: I don't need a dump truck full of wimpy speed-lights and additional radio receivers to work around anything ... then be stuck with the skimpy choice of modifiers that never work well with an array of speed-lights inside (been there done that also). Instead, I can use most any mono-light, studio generator or battery pack at high sync speeds with an array of sophisticated modifiers ... not just a few using work arounds. This includes every pack I already have to choose from to match the need: from the tiny Quadra, small 600B, powerful and fast Hensel 1200L or Mini 1200, D1 Monos, all the way to my D4 2400s which give me 4800w/s using the Profoto Dual tube head ... all without degrading IQ and viewfinder brightness by using a bag full of different strength ND filters ... or a less than stellar variable one.
I have a Hensel Fresnal on order ... which isn't like an Arri, it IS an Arri.
This type of lighting isn't everyone's cup of tea, but it is mine ... so YMMV.
-Marc
S
Shelby Lewis
Guest
Marc and Fred... you gentlemen have the makings of a Pay-per-View fight for HBO.
Strangely, I see the two of you being more alike than most other members here on the forum in terms of what you value in photography... and your passion for the craft.
We all have our personal reasons for choosing what we want to use (be it camera gear or otherwise). Can't we leave it at that?
My Best,
Shelby
Strangely, I see the two of you being more alike than most other members here on the forum in terms of what you value in photography... and your passion for the craft.
We all have our personal reasons for choosing what we want to use (be it camera gear or otherwise). Can't we leave it at that?
My Best,
Shelby
johnnygoesdigital
New member
It's become obvious that Marc owns/owned, every piece of equipment that one could possibly purchase in MFD, so his opinion is worth considering. Modesty not being one of his stronger traits, we aren't given much room for debate though. Opinions are not necessarily based on fact, either pro or against, but user experience is. Marc has also pointed out its only about price, and that's true - I think that's the underlying constant in this debate. For me, if I could have them all, I would...
One fact is accurate though, and that's that the D800 has generated lots of interest because of comparisons, both in utility and quality. There is no shame in schlepping around a D800. This is good for the MFD industry, as newer generations of cameras will certainly compete with 35mm FF!
Edited.
One fact is accurate though, and that's that the D800 has generated lots of interest because of comparisons, both in utility and quality. There is no shame in schlepping around a D800. This is good for the MFD industry, as newer generations of cameras will certainly compete with 35mm FF!
Edited.
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David Schneider
New member
Marc is a working professional and as a working professional myself I value his observations a lot more than I do those of the serious amateur or part timer. I want to hear those opinions based on experience and I thank him for taking the time to present them. They are most helpful to me.
I do not think a comparison of back orders between between types or brands or models of cameras says much about the quality, reliability, handling, and output of a camera.
Guy Mancuso
Administrator, Instructor
The user base its completely different by a country mile . Back orders are meaningless. Actually it's more Nikons production line as more as the issue than anything else. Popular yes but not accurate on user base at all, simply stated the 35mm world is huge compared to MF. Frankly these are user kits be it Pro or otherwise but we all have diffrent goals on how to achieve them. Also some of this is investment into your system or system you don't want to invest in. I have been flush and I have been skimpy on gear throughout my Professional career in this business. But I do disagree with Marc on the fact every system no matter what it is as a Pro there is always work arounds and how to accomplish what you need regardless of systems. Be it 20 strobe lights on a full airplane shoot been here done that or a simple headshot there are always diffrent ways to accomplish the same task in most cases. Our job as a Pro is solving clients needs period and with that comes every trick in the book you can do to pull it off or they will go down the street and find someone else. Simply no way to get around workarounds it's really what all this gear is about is finding ways to get the image. Makes no difference if it cost 50 k or or a 5 cent clothespin as long as it works for the shooter.
On another note and I will speak for probably all of us which I never do here but guys this is getting trying the protection of brand, system and also the bashing of systems is getting frankly pretty damn silly. Remember your talking to the world and your name goes on it. As a friend to all of you please think twice. I'm sorry I even have to say this but is this really the GetDPI way. I would hate to think so. As co owner I thought it was time to speak up.
On another note and I will speak for probably all of us which I never do here but guys this is getting trying the protection of brand, system and also the bashing of systems is getting frankly pretty damn silly. Remember your talking to the world and your name goes on it. As a friend to all of you please think twice. I'm sorry I even have to say this but is this really the GetDPI way. I would hate to think so. As co owner I thought it was time to speak up.
Thanks Shelby ... I just have a hard time letting half info skewed to an agenda go unanswered.Marc and Fred... you gentlemen have the makings of a Pay-per-View fight for HBO.
Strangely, I see the two of you being more alike than most other members here on the forum in terms of what you value in photography... and your passion for the craft.
We all have our personal reasons for choosing what we want to use (be it camera gear or otherwise). Can't we leave it at that?
My Best,
Shelby
Although you are right, neither one of us is going to alter our beliefs, so just letting it go at that is probably best.
-Marc
johnnygoesdigital
New member
Pro's or hobby, it's all important. Hobbyists can sometimes be more objective though, as brand or format loyalty doesn't taint the review or experience. It really is about the initial investment because price points between formats are so disproportionate, but now the quality of the end result is not so much. This is the fundamental difference in all these debates and comparisons.
Guy Mancuso
Administrator, Instructor
End of day and this is more important than many folks think. Hobbyist drive this industry we as Pros are very very much the minority . Lets be honest Phase, Hassy, Leaf , Leica and Pentax are supported very heavily by the the hobbyist and without them these companies would be folding camp. As a Pro myself i owe them a debt a gratitude for keeping it alive.
David Schneider
New member
Hope I didn't come across as one who isn't aware of the value of the hobbyist and their importance to the marketplace. And I agree that often they are more objective although often they have their own "team loyalty' to a particular brand or format.
But if I'm a solider, I prefer to hear from other soldiers about a rifle I will take into combat rather than from someone who uses it for target practice.
But if I'm a solider, I prefer to hear from other soldiers about a rifle I will take into combat rather than from someone who uses it for target practice.