D800/E and Leica R Lenses

[Thorkil]

Thorkil, I bought the d800 especially for the 19, and the 19 for the d800...
(what a wonderful place for your holiday!)
Sergio

, yes I just had that suspicion, but anyway, I just had to give it a try..
and no I'm just not satisfied with my 14-24 on the 800E, even after pro-adjustment, on the D3 it was ok, but not now. And I guess even a 21mm Zeis would not be as good as the R19 Elmarit.
Yes, a good place to stay (San Zeno d.M. just north of Garda), my wife speak it (italien) I don’t, but love to stay behind and smiling listen to the lovely music in your language (while building up my inner passive vocabulary, without daring)
Thorkil
ps. And I can see it even are able to reveal that the flowers are ever-lasting..

 

[robsteve]

Does the new Leica 19mm work on the D800E without any modifications to the lens other than the mount change?

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Does the new Leica 19mm work on the D800E without any modifications to the lens other than the mount change?

Great question Robert . Thought about that lens when folks brought up Leica R glass . Actually if any that is the one I thought would be worth the effort. If I had to guess the shroud would have to go but love to see if it did or not. I would maybe ask the leitax folks on that one.

 

[robsteve]

Great question Robert . Thought about that lens when folks brought up Leica R glass . Actually if any that is the one I thought would be worth the effort. If I had to guess the shroud would have to go but love to see if it did or not. I would maybe ask the leitax folks on that one.

I noticed Sergio was using one in his post a few posts above. I am not sure if there is a shroud to remove, as I think the rear element is held in with the metal ring that hits the mirror on the Canons.

I have a bunch of Leitax mounts coming in the next week or so. I hadn't planned on converting the 19mm, but if if will work, I will convert it. My 19mm is a particularily sharp sample. I remember even in the film days the slides or negatives on the light table would pop from this lens.

This is the 19mm on the DMR with a vertical stitch pano.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Keep us posted on that. I thought Sergio's was version 1 but not sure

 

[sergio lovisolo]

The shroud must be partially filed. I did the operation without difficulty.


_DSC1262 by sergio lovisolo, on Flickr

Lens can be protected with a circle of plastic material and paper tape used to avoid that metal dust penetrate in the lens.
I think this is the best wide angle for the 18-21 range ever made. Distortion
is identical to that of the Zeiss 21 2,8 ZF2, profiles available on PS:
Sergio

 

[sergio lovisolo]

Version 2

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Thanks Sergio, its all coming back to me now. I remember filing mine down now , it was the 35 1.4 I think i did some work on the shroud. Geez this brings me back to my Canon days. LOL

 

[robsteve]

I don't think I am going to try modding my lens. The rear element is on a very fine helicoid and if you stress it in the process it is an expensive repair. I am talking from experience

Too bad the modern SLRs didn't have a mirror lockup where the mirror stayed up and you could use live view with a lens like this.

 

[Bill_Green]

I think we should all go out and buy a D800e or two and then put Leica R glass on it and tell everyone else what they are missing. You know, just for old times sake. Maybe Guy should start a thread called the D800e Bible. :chug:

 

[Jan Brittenson]

As much as I liked my Leica 19, and it was a godsend for Canon cameras at the time, I think the Zeiss 18 is a better lens in every regard - except for a minor size difference. (The Leica 19 being slightly smaller.)

 

[Guy Mancuso]

It maybe The case Jan. I'm reluctant to even go here on Leica R glass since my Zeiss lenses 18mm, 25f2 and 35f2 are just so good. Just not seeing the point. The biggest hole in Nikon is no 135 or 200 in like a 2.8 flavor. Yes the 200 f2 is killer and I owned it but not a general lens to have in the bag all the time. Lets not talk zooms here. I keep avoiding the 70-200 2.8 but I'm not having much of a choice.

 

[glenerrolrd]

The Zeiss and Leica R lens have very different "character" for lack of a better word. Which set you enjoy will typically be based on the aesthetic you are looking for in your photographs .

The Zeiss have very strong contrast and produce exceptional color saturation . You can just look at their website and see plenty examples of how zeiss glass performs . Any image that benefits from the rendering of fine details will look great with Zeiss glass .

The Leica R is well represented by the fine photographs already posted . Leica excels in the midtones ....look at the flowers ..you can see the detail tone separation in the petals . The colors are pure and accurate and the bokeh has an exceptionally smooth roll off .

Look at Rob s photograph of the trees ....with a Zeiss 18 the blacks would be blacker and the highlights stronger ....basically higher macro contrast . It might even appear sharper ....but would it be better ? Thats in the eye of the photographer .

Here is an easy comparison of the different systems ....look at the 85 s . The Leica R 80 1.4 is well know for the beauty of its bokeh ...an artist brush wide open . At 5.6 is very sharp . The 85 1.4 Zeiss has an old formulation (so Zeiss has better) but it has bitting contrast and saturated color when shot at distance . At close distance and wide open its neither sharp or with good bokeh. Shot at any distance and stopped down a bit ..it will create stunning sharpness. The 85 1.4 AF Nikkor is the pick of the Nikon glass ....its very sharp and has an excellent balance of resolution,contrast and color saturation . Bokeh is excellent . But many react to the Nikkors lower contrast and color saturation.

The point being that each system has excellent individual lenses ...but they each retain the character of the manufacturer .

What makes the R glass frustrating is that they aren t making any new ones .

 

[Jan Brittenson]

I don't think it would make any sense to sell either to get the other... unless the slight difference in focal length and F mount support matters. If I still had the Leica 19 (with modified shroud) I'd probably Leitax it and call it a day. But then I'd probably always end up wondering if I should get the Zeiss...

 

[Jan Brittenson]

The D800 has so much dynamic range though that contrast, saturation, and tonal scale are very malleable in post. Once process adjustments are done there is still some remaining difference in color, with the Leica picking up green-blues more strongly (as is pretty typical for Leica glass) - dark blues appearing almost luminescent - but apart from that which is a pretty subjective preference, there's not a whole lot of difference.

But yeah, Zeiss glass calls for lightening shadows a little in post IMO. But so do the top-shelf Nikons...

 

[sergio lovisolo]

My enthusiastic declarations in the previus post about the quality of the elmarit 19 are sustained not only by subiective appreciation of bokè, color nuances etc.
but also by resolution tests.
I have to say that this quality level, in particular corner to corner sharpness,is extraordinary, expecially full open at 2,8.
Limit of the d800 sensor is approximately at 100 line pairs/mm.
The 19 out resolves the sensor center and corners at 5,6 and at 2,8 it out resolves the sensor at center and most part of field, while it reaches 90 lpm
at extreme corners.

Test targets:
Center@2,8

R19center@2,8 by sergio lovisolo, on Flickr

corner@2,8

R19corner@2,8 by sergio lovisolo, on Flickr

corner@5,6

R19corner@5,6 by sergio lovisolo, on Flickr

The following image taken at 5,6 is available on flickr as a full size jpg.
(house is rounded,following street contour)


_DSC0260 by sergio lovisolo, on Flickr

Sergio

 

[robsteve]

My Leitax mounts arrived Monday and I have been playing with some of my R glass. I saved the best for last. The 400mm f2.8 APO can be converted using the Leitax mounts. It requires the ten hole mount and there needs to be some adjustments to the Leitax mount where the aperture follower lever moves in a cutout. Some of the R lenses, such as this lens and the 105-280mm have a slightly thicker lever than the other Leica lenses and it binds in the stock Leitax mount.

I haven't had a chance to modify the Leitax mount, but it fit fine on the 1.4x Extender. Here is the combo, giving me a 560mm f4 lens on the D800E. From initial testing it seems very sharp, as it was on the R cameras.

Excuse the photo quality, it was shot on my cell phone.

 

[glenerrolrd]

The D800 has so much dynamic range though that contrast, saturation, and tonal scale are very malleable in post. Once process adjustments are done there is still some remaining difference in color, with the Leica picking up green-blues more strongly (as is pretty typical for Leica glass) - dark blues appearing almost luminescent - but apart from that which is a pretty subjective preference, there's not a whole lot of difference.

But yeah, Zeiss glass calls for lightening shadows a little in post IMO. But so do the top-shelf Nikons...

Its not as simple as fixing things in post ..but there are two dimensions to consider . When I had the D3x and the DMR ...I could test both R glass and nikkor primes on the Nikon sensor and then compare to the DMR with R glass . Both the sensor and the lens affect the resolution,contrast,saturation and tone separation (as does post processing).

The DMR had better color ....cleaner separation of the colors and a real depth that was not present with the Nikon . (it had a lot of others issues ..but the DMR had great color ).

So move to the Nikon ...with the R glass you could see the character which I described above . To my taste (and thats clearly subjective) the R glass was pretty great . The Nikon glass was a mixed situation ...the newer nano coated primes and even the new 70-200/2.8 were big improvements .

Its in the midtones that you ..like a red shirt , hair , the ocean etc ..that you can see the differences . Maybe its my lack of technique in post processing but I find it hard to match the .NEF files made with Nikon lenses to anything produced by a Leica DNG .

The Leica R glass on the D800E is the closest I can get . But I find it very difficult to match the Nikkors ,the Leica R and the Zeiss glass in a collection of images .

 

[robsteve]

These were shot on a D800E, using a Leica 400mm f2.8 APO-Telyt and a 1.4x APO extender. I put a Leitax mount on the extender, which allowed me to mount the large 400mm APO. If was shot at f3.5 on the lens, giving a 560mm f4, shot at f4.8 or what ever the half stop between f4 and f5.6.

It took a few tries at throwing and fetching the bumper before I could get any in focus. This is a series at the 4.5fps the D800E shoots.

 

[robsteve]

So move to the Nikon ...with the R glass you could see the character which I described above .

See photos above