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D3x likely official next week

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Vivek

Guest
Bah-Humbug!
Nikon needs to wake up and make some really fast new available light lenses with AFS, nano coating and all that.
As long as a majority are satisfied with their zooms and have a cupboard full of old primes dating back to the 60s, they are safe. They know that.

The 50/1.4 AFS itself is taking its own sweet time and they are busy trying to standardize the plastic manufacturing in PRC.

I think Sony should get their act together to try and make a viable system. That would give Nikon the jolt they need.:D
 
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TimF

Guest
4 makers? Canon, then Sony and now Nikon .... who's the 4th?
Leica possibly? But then, the S2 isn't a 35mm camera (or won't be, to be precise!)
 

fotografz

Well-known member
As long as a majority are satisfied with their zooms and have a cupboard full of old primes dating back to the 60s, they are safe. They know that.

The 50/1.4 AFS itself is taking its own sweet time and they are busy trying to standardize the plastic manufacturing in PRC.

I think Sony should get their act together to try and make a viable system. That would give Nikon the jolt they need.:D
Oh Sony, is doing just that already considering they're the new kid on the block for all intents and purposes. Give them time. The Sony pockets are very deep. Already there is nothing in the Nikon arsenal like the AF Zeiss primes and 24-70/2.8 zoom ... with the 16-35/2.8 (3 ASPH and 2 ED lens elements) due next month ... and no plastic, not even the shade. Surprizingly, the A900 is a better camera than I expected ... a small, well balanced camera without all the trinkets and trash stuffed into it. So, Sony got money based on optics that could have gone to Nikon.

Frankly, I don't see them as mutually exclusive at this point. I do tend to buy cameras based on optics first. The camera is just a media box, and the price of entry is decent ergonomic speed and handling ... but optics rule as the priority. IMO, Zeiss is Sony's trump card. If Zeiss extends their Sony mount offerings to include a new formula AF version of the 28/2, 35/1.4 and/or legendary Zeiss 21, or the 100/2 and 300/4 ... look out Canon and Nikon. And dream-of-dreams a re-issue of the Zeiss 50/1.2 in AF. Nothing like a dedicated lens maker making new lenses for a new system.

Time will tell ;)
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
Bah-Humbug!

Canon makes a pretty good 35/1.4 ... a very usable lens for low light work ... Nikon needs to wake up and make some really fast new available light lenses with AFS, nano coating and all that.

Wish I never sold my 28/1.4. Now I can't afford to buy one back.
This is why I got some of these high speed Canon primes right now and will buy a 5DM2 asap. I just got tired of waiting for these lenses from Nikon :mad:

While I own a D3 myself and like this camera, I am NOT impressed from what the D3X will offer in terms of speed and High ISO possibilities. Canon' 5DM2 can go up to 6400 as standard speed (D3X only up to ISO1600 standard speed) and of course one can push further. And this camera offers very low noise on their 21MP sensor - which in my opinion is no real difference to 24MP.

So why it took so long for Nikon I do not understand. And I am expecting a higher res version of the 1DSM3 early next year.

For me today Canon is still the leader and they have one BIG advantage: they design and develop and produce not only camera, glass, but also the electronics AND the sensor themselves. This gives them much more possibilities than Nikon, they still have to buy the sensor on the market :cry:
 

etrigan63

Active member
Leica with the S2 is the 4th. The S2 sensor is larger than 35mm but considerably smaller than MFD.

The main distinctions between MFD and 35mm was image size (MFD starts around 20+ megapixels these days and 35mm is now topping out at 24.5 Mpx), dynamic range (most MFD backs are rated at 12 stops of DR and DXOMark tests show that the current top end systems from Canon, Nikon and Sony all match this), and sharpness due to thin or no AA filters (the D3x is reported to sport an all new OLPF - Optical Low Pass Filter). One bit that remains unclear is the bit depth of the new D3x sensor. Typical MFD sensors operate at 16 bits/channel and the Nikon Pro article only mentions the Expeed processor operates at 16-bits. Whether this is referring to pixel depth or computer instruction word size is unknown at this time.
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
Leica with the S2 is the 4th. The S2 sensor is larger than 35mm but considerably smaller than MFD.

The main distinctions between MFD and 35mm was image size (MFD starts around 20+ megapixels these days and 35mm is now topping out at 24.5 Mpx), dynamic range (most MFD backs are rated at 12 stops of DR and DXOMark tests show that the current top end systems from Canon, Nikon and Sony all match this), and sharpness due to thin or no AA filters (the D3x is reported to sport an all new OLPF - Optical Low Pass Filter). One bit that remains unclear is the bit depth of the new D3x sensor. Typical MFD sensors operate at 16 bits/channel and the Nikon Pro article only mentions the Expeed processor operates at 16-bits. Whether this is referring to pixel depth or computer instruction word size is unknown at this time.
I think they would not mention 16bit operating width, but rather the color bit depth.

What OLPF really means is unclear, as all LPF's have been optical so far. Maybe this one is very thin and ha only minor impact as the rest is calculated fro the processor?

Anyway, Canon is reported to do LPF in it's future top models without any filter, all in DIGIC V, which then paired with 16bit an say 24-28MP will be the real optimal solution!
 

fotografz

Well-known member
This is why I got some of these high speed Canon primes right now and will buy a 5DM2 asap. I just got tired of waiting for these lenses from Nikon :mad:

While I own a D3 myself and like this camera, I am NOT impressed from what the D3X will offer in terms of speed and High ISO possibilities. Canon' 5DM2 can go up to 6400 as standard speed (D3X only up to ISO1600 standard speed) and of course one can push further. And this camera offers very low noise on their 21MP sensor - which in my opinion is no real difference to 24MP.

So why it took so long for Nikon I do not understand. And I am expecting a higher res version of the 1DSM3 early next year.

For me today Canon is still the leader and they have one BIG advantage: they design and develop and produce not only camera, glass, but also the electronics AND the sensor themselves. This gives them much more possibilities than Nikon, they still have to buy the sensor on the market :cry:
I wouldn't discount the new Nikon D3X quite yet. Shouldn't we wait to see what it can actually do? IF they have limited the AA filter while keeping the ISO down a stop, that could be a very good thing ....then "Leadership" will be in the eye of the beholder.

I do not like Canon files because they are overly filtered & waxey to my eye. I vividly recall my heart sinking when I opened the first set of wedding images shot with the 1DMKII :( The last two Canons I owned (1DMKIII & 1DsMKII) were the last straw, and I jumped ship when Nikon finally went FF.

I also seriously doubt that a Canon 5DMKII will be in the same class as the D3X any more than the 5D is in the same class as the D3. Personally I shot with the 5D for years and hated every minute of it. It's one of the few cameras I've used that I never took to ... no matter how much I wanted it to be so. Strictly a personal opinion.

However, IF I were still shooting Canon, I think I'd still pop for the 5DMKII because it's small ... and I'd use it with a few select ultra fast prime lenses ... however for versatile use, Canon zooms are in desperate need of a total overhaul as much as Nikon needs to address a few basic fast primes. The Canon 24-70/2.8 main-stay lens leaves a lot to be desired IMHO. And anything below 50mm prime or zoom range has some of the worst distortion I've ever experienced ... something I personally despise.

But a Canon 5DMKII with a 50/1.2L would be a pretty nice set up by itself. Wish the 50/1.2L had IS ... or the 5DMKII had internal IS. Then it'd be the perfect available light machine.
 
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Vivek

Guest
What OLPF really means is unclear, as all LPF's have been optical so far. Maybe this one is very thin and ha only minor impact as the rest is calculated fro the processor?

Anyway, Canon is reported to do LPF in it's future top models without any filter, ..

Search for "optical waveguides" or more specifically "photonic crystals".

Exciting development when it comes to applications of these for photography.
I would expect contrast and clarity (out of the box images) to improve vastly.
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
I wouldn't discount the new Nikon D3X quite yet. Shouldn't we wait to see what it can actually do? IF they have limited the AA filter while keeping the ISO down a stop, that could be a very good thing ....then "Leadership" will be in the eye of the beholder.

I do not like Canon files because they are overly filtered & waxey to my eye. I vividly recall my heart sinking when I opened the first set of wedding images shot with the 1DMKII :( The last two Canons I owned (1DMKIII & 1DsMKII) were the last straw, and I jumped ship when Nikon finally went FF.

I also seriously doubt that a Canon 5DMKII will be in the same class as the D3X any more than the 5D is in the same class as the D3. Personally I shot with the 5D for years and hated every minute of it. It's one of the few cameras I've used that I never took to ... no matter how much I wanted it to be so. Strictly a personal opinion.

However, IF I were still shooting Canon, I think I'd still pop for the 5DMKII because it's small ... and I'd use it with a few select ultra fast prime lenses ... however for versatile use, Canon zooms are in desperate need of a total overhaul as much as Nikon needs to address a few basic fast primes. The Canon 24-70/2.8 main-stay lens leaves a lot to be desired IMHO. And anything below 50mm prime or zoom range has some of the worst distortion I've ever experienced ... something I personally despise.

But a Canon 5DMKII with a 50/1.2L would be a pretty nice set up by itself. Wish the 50/1.2L had IS ... or the 5DMKII had internal IS. Then it'd be the perfect available light machine.
I see you like Nikon :) so do I!

I still keep my D3 and all glass but I am very disappointed on the missing primes as I wrote. Bt I know Nikon in and out, as I am using this system since many years!

And I also find - contrary to you - the Canon files much more natural and realistic than the Nikon files (I speak always about RAW, as I only shoot RAW and do not give anything on JPEG in any camera). And I use Aperture, as I have the feeling it has the best RAW converters from all SW on the market - just my personal feeling and opinion.

So finally I decided to go with 2 brands - Nikon and Canon - which will allow me to buy exactly the combination of lenses and cameras as I prefer them for different needs and I do NOT have to restrict myself to foolish marketing ideas of one or the other - great idea - ok?

So I am pretty happy since I decided this and look forward to an exciting future with both systems. And finally this will be cheaper than always selling a complete system and jumping to another - at least for my needs. But honestly I do expect more innovation from C than from N over the next years, simply because C owns the complete technology flow from start till end. And so they can tweak the best way what i s possible and what is requested by the market.

BTW - I do like both 24-70 zooms, the Nikon and the Canon, for me both are great lenses and absolutely top performers. And I am also sure that the generation of cameras you used from C was still way behind a 1DSM3 and 5DM2.
 

Lars

Active member
In the end, it's the performance (and cost) of the system that matters. I'm sitting here with a bunch of Nikon glass purchased from -95 to -05, some of which I suspect needs to be upgraded to match a 25 Mpx sensor (my 80-200/2.8D comes to mind). I can hardly justify the investment in a $7K camera plus some $3-6K in lenses just to get to 25 Mpx. OTOH if an upgrade to the D700 appeared come spring, then that might be interesting.

For now, the price on D700 in Europe is quite attractive, GBP 1331 at Robert White which should be around USD 2050.
 

Lars

Active member
Leica with the S2 is the 4th. The S2 sensor is larger than 35mm but considerably smaller than MFD.
If you look at shipping products, there are still only two. A good guess is that it will be a while longer before we see a shipping S2, whereas Nikon tends to announce products when the production line is more or less completely set up. And as you point out, the S2 is in a different category size-wise (not to mention cost).
 

etrigan63

Active member
I never said shipping, I said announced. Another in that category is the RED DSMC with Scarlet 35FF Module - it specs the same as the Nikon D3x. 24Mpx, 16-bit A/D, and 13+ stops of DR. The RED DSCM clobbers everyone on framerates: 30fps for the Scarlet 35FF module. And they have also announced an Epic 645 module at 65Mpx, 16-bit A/D, and 50fps!
 

Jeff Turner

Member
Here are the official images of the D3x from the Nikon Global website. The site is very sluggish as I am sure it is getting a lot of traffic.
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
$8,000 seems to be the price. That would buy me a Walkman with in-body IS, a Zeiss 24-70, the 135/1.8 and the Sony 70-300 G.

Oh well... no hurry. I'll take a couple of shots with the S5 and think it over :)
 

etrigan63

Active member
The press release cleared up one question I had: 14-bit/channel max like on the D3/D300/D700. The Expeed processor operates in a 16-bit pipeline.
 
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Vivek

Guest
$8,000 seems to be the price. That would buy me a Walkman with in-body IS, a Zeiss 24-70, the 135/1.8 and the Sony 70-300 G.
One tick for the walkman. :thumbup:

Jorgen Udvang said:
Oh well... no hurry. I'll take a couple of shots with the S5 and think it over :)
Someone has to do the dirty work! ;):)
 

Lars

Active member
does anyone think there will be a d700x eventually?
That's a given, I think.

With the D3x, Nikon targets the pro market where image quality and resolution is most important - studio, fashion, product. Competitors - as a system - are Canon with 1Ds, and several MFD manufacturers. If Nikon can deliver image quality comparable to MFD systems then the D3x is certainly priced right.

Cost-conscious photographers looking to move up in resolution is a different market, this is where A900 and now 5dII reside, and it's of course much more of a volume market than that for the D3x. It would only make sense for Nikon to eventually put the D3x sensor in a lower-spec body, just as with the D3 and D700. Time gap there was 12 months, so perhaps next fall?
 
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TimF

Guest
For now, the price on D700 in Europe is quite attractive, GBP 1331 at Robert White which should be around USD 2050.
Robert White's listed prices don't include VAT (currently 15% until the end of 09). :cry::rolleyes::thumbup:
 

Lars

Active member
Robert White's listed prices don't include VAT (currently 15% until the end of 09). :cry::rolleyes::thumbup:
Neither does for example B&H in New York, where the D700 lists for $2700 after discount. Robert White has a great price listed. Check your facts.
 
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