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Zeiss 55mm 1.4... this is going to cost me

anGy

Member
Did have 5 seconds for making a few shots with it on my D800 at last Photokina.
Even on such worthless shots I've seen the most perfect result at f1.4 so far, sharp with very beautifull background blur.
This is a mind blowing lens :salute:
 

ShooterSteve

New member
Well I'm glad that Zeiss is stepping up to the plate and making lenses that are up to the demands of the latest sensors. Nothing is more frustrating than to have great cameras without lenses that are up to the task. Hopefully they will offer lenses other than the 50 1.4 very soon after they release that one.

And hoping Zeiss doesn't forget shift lenses for us architectural guys :)
 

4711

Member
It is amusing how people write their judgements about a comparioson without knowing what kind of lens was used.

So how do you know that the comparison photo is a very old lens. Why do you think that it is not the current Nikon 50/1.4 (just as an example).

I would hesitate to bash on something without knowing the facts. Makes the criticism even more worthless ;)

And it is understandable that Zeiss does not disclose the name of the other lens. First, it is in some countries forbidden to make those comparisons, as soon as you name the other lens, second you can bet that the lawyers of the other company will try to stop this comparsison asap with all kind of tricks.

So just wait and see until the first real users will show their own comparisons with their "old" 50/1.4 lenses. Than you can start bashing if you want to and if there are any arguments for bashing at all...
 

Steen

Senior Subscriber Member
Zeiss 55mm 1.4 ... this is going to cost me


Well I'm glad that Zeiss is stepping up to the plate and making lenses that are up to the demands of the latest sensors. (...)

I'd prefer to see more high res auto focus lenses optimised for high res sensors, like e.g. the two AF-S Nikkor 85mm G optics.
And they do not necessarily need to be all that fast, Nikon, f/1.8 or f/2 is fine with me as long as they perform reasonably well wide open.
Like e.g. an AF-S 135mm f/1.8 :angel:
Ok, an f/2 could do as well :)
And for wide angles f/2.8 or f/3.5 is all the speed I need.
But auto focus, please, if you ask me.
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
Most of those buying this lens would be people who don't need it and don't understand its value. They'll buy it because it's the most expensive and supposedly the best 50mm lens for 35mm ever made. But if that is what makes the world go round, so be it.

Those who can really make good use of it are video users, studio and portrait photographers, landscape photographers and others who don't really care if it's AF or not. Yes, it would be nice if it was AF, but it isn't, and there's always the Nikkor, the Sigma and, for those who are into Canon cameras, the 50mm L.
 
V

Vivek

Guest
I looked at the video Jorgen linked and the other links.

3,000 Euros for a lens that only took just one day to design and to actually make a working prototype (according to the youtube video) is a bit too much, IMO.

Zeiss may be misled by the going prices for the discontinued 55/1.2 Contax Planar lenses? :confused:

OTOH, it looks like the APO Sonnar 135/2 is a bargain.
 

4711

Member
I looked at the video Jorgen linked and the other links.

3,000 Euros for a lens that only took just one day to design and to actually make a working prototype (according to the youtube video) is a bit too much, IMO.
...
The price of a lens is not only determined by the time you need to design the lens, but a lot more how expensive it is to produce.

If Zeiss is using for this 55/1.4 a lens design they basically already use in another existing product line, it does not surprise me, that it was possible to design it very fast in a different lens mount. The original design time was probably a year or more.

We are talking about lenses, which are designed for sensors with 36MP upwards. Check prices for Medium Format lenses. With and without AF and 3000.- suddenly looks average or even cheap.

If you find a 50/1.4 with the same IQ and build quality for less money, please show me and I buy it for my lens mount too. If I can save money I will. But unless someone can actually proove, that the same is possible cheaper, we should all be very cautious with criticism ;)

Nobody is forced to buy it. I do not know for myself whether I will have the funds to buy it. BUT if it turns out, that it is so much better than any other lens in this FL and I decide that I need a high MP sensor, then I rather save for 3 years to buy it. At the moment, I even do not want a D800 because these high MP are overkill for me. But the 55/1.4 on a 24MP APS-C sensor might be also nice :)
 
V

Vivek

Guest
Unlike you, 4711, I am actually interested in buying one to use with a Speed Booster to get an effective 39mm f/1 lens on APS-C NEX (well, I am also interested in acquiring a 55/1.2 Planar). Yes, a full frame covering lens is needed for that. I would like to see some tech details of this lens first instead of some youtube blahblah (there are no details as to if the materials costs are sky high like you claim- may be you have some inside knowledge?). You know why medium format is not a volume seller? ;)
 

4711

Member
Unlike you, 4711, I am actually interested in buying one to use with a Speed Booster to get an effective 39mm f/1 lens on APS-C NEX (well, I am also interested in acquiring a 55/1.2 Planar). Yes, a full frame covering lens is needed for that. I would like to see some tech details of this lens first instead of some youtube blahblah (there are no details as to if the materials costs are sky high like you claim- may be you have some inside knowledge?). You know why medium format is not a volume seller? ;)
Hi

please reread my posting. I did not say that I am not interested in buying this lens.

No producer is showing the end user how much the production costs them. They decide for a price and will see afterwards, whether this decision (offering this lens and price target) was wrong or not.

I do not knoww hat you do expect, but the whole Zeiss ZF/ZE/ZK/ZS line is not intended to serve the mass market. It was and will be always a small niche market with low sales volume and therefore high prices.

If you think only economically, there is no reason to buy i.e. a Zeiss ZF 50/1.4, if you can have for a fraction of that price a Nikon 50/1.8G with AF. Still some people are buying the Zeiss lens.

Some also buy a Sony RX1, which does not even has a viewfinder, although they could have a very good Fuji X100 for almost a third of that price.

Each one has its own priorities. But if you want to have lenses, which deliver excellent IQ even with 40MP or 50MP fullframe sensors, I can predict without beeing an insider, that you will have to pay over 2000.- for each lens as long as the lens maker has only a niche volume and is not the producer of the body for cross-selling ;)
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
I looked at the video Jorgen linked and the other links.

3,000 Euros for a lens that only took just one day to design and to actually make a working prototype (according to the youtube video) is a bit too much, IMO.

Zeiss may be misled by the going prices for the discontinued 55/1.2 Contax Planar lenses? :confused:

OTOH, it looks like the APO Sonnar 135/2 is a bargain.
Vivek,
I don't know where you got one day from. In the video, he says that the lens took very little time to develop due to their extensive experience and that the development time was only one year.

Without knowing much about lens design, I would assume that it's faster to design a good lens when there are few restrictions with regards to size and cost as in this case. At least, that is the case in most other industries.

As for the price, a Zeiss Compact Prime 50mm T2.1 retails for $3,990 and a Canon CN-E 50mm T1.3 L F Cine Lens for $4,950. The price of the 55mm seems to harmonize well with those prices. Lenses that are produced in small quantities with strict quality control will always be considerably more expensive than a mass market product, and most of us have a choice what to buy.
 
V

Vivek

Guest
Poor audio, I guess, Jorgen. One year sounded like 1 day. :eek:

Without knowing much about lens design, I would assume that it's faster to design a good lens when there are few restrictions with regards to size and cost as in this case. At least, that is the case in most other industries.
Good point!
 

Steen

Senior Subscriber Member
Zeiss 55mm 1.4 ... this is going to cost me


It is amusing how people write their judgements about a comparioson without knowing what kind of lens was used.

So how do you know that the comparison photo is a very old lens. Why do you think that it is not the current Nikon 50/1.4 (just as an example).

I would hesitate to bash on something without knowing the facts. Makes the criticism even more worthless ;)

And it is understandable that Zeiss does not disclose the name of the other lens. First, it is in some countries forbidden to make those comparisons, as soon as you name the other lens, second you can bet that the lawyers of the other company will try to stop this comparsison asap with all kind of tricks.

So just wait and see until the first real users will show their own comparisons with their "old" 50/1.4 lenses. Than you can start bashing if you want to and if there are any arguments for bashing at all...

At your service, Sir :)
Let's see what conventional looks like.
Please note that this is not a test, let alone a contest. It's nothing but an illustration, just to add some realism.

A quick illustration on what some conventional 50mm optics can typically do to a target like the one discussed here.
Different Exposure Compensations, and the natural light was changing, and as usual I didn't quite succeed putting the focus exactly on the same plane (accuracy takes time).
Still, a valid illustration on how four different conventional 50mm F-mount lenses render wide open (or near wide open for the ultrafast AI-S Nikkor).
Three of them do f/1.4 or wider, the fourth being restricted to max f/1.8 and thus gaining a bit more free Depth Of Field, contrast and sharpness, and also less vignetting.

Allow me to present, from left to right:

Carl Zeiss Planar 1.4/50mm ZF
Nikon AF-S Nikkor 1.4/50mm G
Nikon AI-S Nikkor 1.2/50mm
Nikon AI-S Nikkor 1.8/50mm (short-nosed version)


Exif information is in the files.
Please keep all the illustrations here on the GetDPI forum.

©lick for native sizes


© • Nikon D800E • AI-S Nikkor 1.8/50mm • 1/8 sec. at f/5.6 ISO 100 • Lightroom 4.3




© • Nikon D800E • Carl Zeiss Planar 1.4/50mm ZF • 1/250 sec. at f/1.4 ISO 100 • Lightroom 4.3




© • Nikon D800E • AF-S Nikkor 1.4/50mm G • 1/250 sec. at f/1.4 ISO 100 • Lightroom 4.3




© • Nikon D800E • AI-S Nikkor 1.2/50mm • 1/400 sec. at f/1.4 ISO 100 • Lightroom 4.3




© • Nikon D800E • AI-S Nikkor 1.8/50mm • 1/100 sec. at f/1.8 ISO 100 • Lightroom 4.3



Disclaimer: I do solemnly swear that all items belong to my wife .-)
 

ShooterSteve

New member
Vivek,
I don't know where you got one day from. In the video, he says that the lens took very little time to develop due to their extensive experience and that the development time was only one year.

Without knowing much about lens design, I would assume that it's faster to design a good lens when there are few restrictions with regards to size and cost as in this case. At least, that is the case in most other industries.

As for the price, a Zeiss Compact Prime 50mm T2.1 retails for $3,990 and a Canon CN-E 50mm T1.3 L F Cine Lens for $4,950. The price of the 55mm seems to harmonize well with those prices. Lenses that are produced in small quantities with strict quality control will always be considerably more expensive than a mass market product, and most of us have a choice what to buy.
The Compact Primes are their bargain line of lenses based on their current line of Nikon or Canon mount still lenses rehoused for cinema use. Their Master Primes are their top of the line cine lenses where the 50mm T1.3 costs a whopping $21000! Which is similar to Leica and Cooke cine lenses.

I'd love to see Leica get in the game of lenses for Canon and Nikon too - but I'm afraid they would make this $3000 Zeiss look like a bargain :shocked:
 

Alon

Not Available
I prefer the Nikkor 50/1.2 Ais because I am bias and like this lens too much!

The nikkor 50/1.4 G is obviously the sharpest.
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
Actually from this test I prefer the Nikkor 1.4/50G far better than all the rest!

I am already since a while considering to buy a 50mm prime and given the performance of the 1.4/50G and the relatively moderate price, this seem to become my favorite. Hard to believe that it can produce such results for that price ;)
 

Lictor

New member
Actually from this test I prefer the Nikkor 1.4/50G far better than all the rest!

I am already since a while considering to buy a 50mm prime and given the performance of the 1.4/50G and the relatively moderate price, this seem to become my favorite. Hard to believe that it can produce such results for that price ;)
I had that lens and sold it because of one of the worst bokehs I have seen. Truly I don't fret over that but it was too much for me. Sharpness-wise great.

I ended with Sigma because the shots just look better, but not really happy with any of the options. Hoping for a great 50 1.2 AF-S from Nikon :cool:

Just my $0.02

Best,

Daniel Lovric
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
I agree about the Sigma vs. the Nikon. The Voigtländer 58mm f/1.4 also has a nice bokeh but seems to have gone out of fashion.
 

Steen

Senior Subscriber Member
Zeiss 55mm 1.4 ... this is going to cost me


Here's a couple of close up portraits of the old manual focus AI-S Nikkor 50mm f/1.2 - first of all illustrating the out of focus rendering of the AF-S Nikkor 50mm f/1.4 used for the captures


©lick for actual pixels






© • both captures Nikon D800E • AF-S Nikkor 1.4/50mm G • 1/20 sec. at f/5.6 ISO 100 • Lightroom 4.3
 
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