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Sigma 35mm 1.4 / D800 e AF issues

johnnygoesdigital

New member
Tashley,

I'm surprised that you've not found a good copy yet. I had these issues with a particular model of MFD camera and I think some thought I was too finicky or delusional, so my apologies if my criticism have put me in that category.

Is your package arriving intact? Does it look like it's been damaged in transit? Sometimes lens elements can be slightly askew from jarring motions.
 

tashley

Subscriber Member
Tashley,

I'm surprised that you've not found a good copy yet. I had these issues with a particular model of MFD camera and I think some thought I was too finicky or delusional, so my apologies if my criticism have put me in that category.

Is your package arriving intact? Does it look like it's been damaged in transit? Sometimes lens elements can be slightly askew from jarring motions.
I purchased two from my usual retailer and they looked pretty good packaging wise. The third was a replacement of the second, which I sent for repair and which they simply replaced so that one did arrive through the post. The fourth I purchased from another retailer and it also looked pretty good and un-damaged in its packaging. Generally I get a good lens on the first or second attempt, apart from the problems I had with the 24-120VRII but this Sigma appears to me to have some endemic issues either of design that stretches the manufacturing, or of QC, or possibly of Sigma's new method of testing using their Foveon based MTF. But in any event what is interesting is that I've had the soft side switch from left to right depending on which lens. This current version has an interesting addition of a notable mid-field weakness on the right, which I suspect is the way the decentering is combining with the natural curvature of the lens.

But as for whether I am concerned about being called too finicky - no! I test a lot of lenses and I am pretty confident that I know when something's not right. I often keep a lens because the problem is within what I consider an acceptable tolerance but when I consistently hear of other people with problems with this particular model that they also consider outside of the acceptable zone, I know I am not alone!
 

knocker

New member
After following a few threads on this topic and seeing people here having contact with sigma UK I'd like to add my experience to the discussion. I bought the lens in January. I've always used centre focus and recomposed but thought I would try using the outer focus points and liked the experience. However, this did make me realise my d800 was having issues with the lens. I did some interior tests and found that targets 3.5-6 metres away were back focusing 1.5-2 feet on the outer left and right focus points. I also saw that the centre point was about a foot in front in these conditions(up to this point I'd been shooting outside and with liveView where I hadn't noticed the problem). To me this meant any fine tuning would not be worth while.
I also found that taking a picture of an object when tripod mounted, the camera would shift focus with each picture taken.
I'd seen that some customers in the US had sent their d800s and 35mm in to be fine tuned so contacted Sigma UK. They told me to send in the camera and lens, which I did, and they would calibrate, but it would take up to 3 weeks. I didn't hear anything from them after that time so called them up. They told me that Sigma Japan weren't aware of the problem, which, after reading a lot of boards seemed a bit disingenuous. The person I spoke to said they expected a solution with a month and guaranteed that he would be in touch with me soon and would send a courier around to pick up the equipment. Needless to say the lens was not calibrated. This was a couple of weeks ago. I hope that the issue gets sorted soon.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
After following a few threads on this topic and seeing people here having contact with sigma UK I'd like to add my experience to the discussion. I bought the lens in January. I've always used centre focus and recomposed but thought I would try using the outer focus points and liked the experience. However, this did make me realise my d800 was having issues with the lens. I did some interior tests and found that targets 3.5-6 metres away were back focusing 1.5-2 feet on the outer left and right focus points. I also saw that the centre point was about a foot in front in these conditions(up to this point I'd been shooting outside and with liveView where I hadn't noticed the problem). To me this meant any fine tuning would not be worth while.
I also found that taking a picture of an object when tripod mounted, the camera would shift focus with each picture taken.
I'd seen that some customers in the US had sent their d800s and 35mm in to be fine tuned so contacted Sigma UK. They told me to send in the camera and lens, which I did, and they would calibrate, but it would take up to 3 weeks. I didn't hear anything from them after that time so called them up. They told me that Sigma Japan weren't aware of the problem, which, after reading a lot of boards seemed a bit disingenuous. The person I spoke to said they expected a solution with a month and guaranteed that he would be in touch with me soon and would send a courier around to pick up the equipment. Needless to say the lens was not calibrated. This was a couple of weeks ago. I hope that the issue gets sorted soon.
Same thing I was told when I brought my first one in on the. outside points. Mine was backfocusing beyond minus 20 and they got most of that sorted out. There are few issues with the lens. My latest fresh copy is much much better but I may have a issue with my sensor being left side soft. My latest tests with 5 lenses I was seeing some softness. So I need to send my body in but right now its not a critical problem.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
For me its the body , is just a wee bit off. All lenses

Maybe I should smack it upside the head on the right side to fix it. LOL
 

tashley

Subscriber Member
"Dear Mr Ashley,

Unfortunately our technician has not been successful in adjusting your lens. As a result of this it is being sent back to the factory in Japan for the correction.

I have marked the job as urgent but these can take between 6-8 weeks to return.

Any problems please contact me.

Sorry for any inconvenience caused.

Kind Regards"

Oh dear....
 

tashley

Subscriber Member
OK, I think I have a good one: the one I sent for repair, and which has been sent to Japan because they couldn't fix it in the UK, has been replaced by Sigma UK. It isn't clear whether or not they intend me to keep this copy or whether it is a loaner until the Japan-bound copy gets fixed but the one in my sweaty hand now is the first one I have had with no asymmetry that I can find in an hour of shooting.

It does, however, produce shots that are soft on both sides rather than just on one: but that is a good thing I think and pretty much what I would expect.

Let me clarify: the lens clearly has a field of focus that curves forward towards the edges. That is not unusual, and the copies I had that were sharp on one side were only so at the expense of extra softness on the other side because the asymmetry was skewing this field of focus. So what I have clearly demonstrated to my satisfaction is that the copy I have now, at F5.6 CAN get sharp edges too, but only when focussed a little further back than my +20 AFFT can allow.

I think that my body, when it went for the left side focus fix, has ended up with a general plus requirement - my other lenses pretty much all need a plus of some amount but none as much as 20, whereas every copy (now five!) of the siggy I have had has needed 18 to 20, usually 20.

So as soon as the USB dock is available for Nikon fit, I will adjust the lens so that it needs less plus fine tune, and then jig it so that it focusses as far back as possible without losing the plot at F1.4... I suspect that with my current setup, a +23 to +25 might achieve that, were it possible.

The good news is that I really do like this lens. Wide open, it's like a well-behaved F1 Noctilux in some ways, in terms of its look, but has a less complex field curvature (albeit being a stop slower) and better control of aberrations. Then, when focussed correctly and stopped down a bit, it gets to be a much more technical lens.

I am feeling good about this one!
 

VINCET

Member
I just got this lens with my D800e and was amazed that for every 10 shots, I get about 2 that are good. I get better result using the Zeiss 35mm ZF.2 f1.4 manual focusing than this one. The 2 that are good are really excellent. Too bad.

I bought it off a person from FM and it is has not been registered with an Amazon receipt. I am wondering if it is worth going thru Sigma to have this repair/replace or just return to seller.

Vince
 

tashley

Subscriber Member
I just got this lens with my D800e and was amazed that for every 10 shots, I get about 2 that are good. I get better result using the Zeiss 35mm ZF.2 f1.4 manual focusing than this one. The 2 that are good are really excellent. Too bad.

I bought it off a person from FM and it is has not been registered with an Amazon receipt. I am wondering if it is worth going thru Sigma to have this repair/replace or just return to seller.

Vince

Vincent, if you can, you may need to return it or failing that send it to Sigma.

But before you do either make sure it is fine tuned properly. The lens has a forward field curvature such that some placements of the field of focus in combination with some distances and apertures will make the edges soft when they could be sharp if the image was focussed slightly further 'into' the field - even if the central subject is sharp.

However if there is any sign of asymmetry, which seems almost endemic, then send it back without hesitation because no amount of tweaking will help it. The other thing to do is to try tripod and live view and see if you can get shots that are to your satisfaction.

I finally have a good one, took five copies to get there but it was worth it however I would always counsel that with lenses known for significant proportions of inadequately adjusted copies you should NEVER buy used unless you can test thoroughly before purchase: lenses like this flood the used market as people slowly realise, often after their return window has closed, that they have a lemon. And then you are stuck with something you can't return and which, frankly, Sigma to have a poor chance of fixing without sending to Japan...
 

VINCET

Member
Tashley

The problem with my lens is that the area where the image is soft is not even in the edge but very close to center. And this is with the camera mounted on a tripod.

DSC_7482.jpg | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

That shot were on a tripod and I used a AF-S with the spot actually pointed at the Sigma box on the number 35. Aperture was at 1.4.

DSC_7483.jpg | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

2nd shot, AF-S still and was focus on the red/orange book below. This time, the picture looks better but still a bit soft I think.

DSC_7484.jpg | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Final shot is again pointed at the sigma box, on the number 35. This time, it is off again. I also did several shot of my daughter and it seems like a hit or miss.

Not sure if that is the same issue as you guys were having. As you can see, it is not even the edges here.

Vince
 

Lightleak

New member
Tim,

since you say you finally got a good copy of this lens now, I would really love to see a landscape/cityscape shot , or one of this amazing castle you often shoot for tests. At sth. between f8 or f11 would be great.

Your words „ Then, when focussed correctly and stopped down a bit, it gets to be a much more technical lens.“ really gave me hope.. currently on the fence to buy a wide angle for the d800e and since the 28mm/1.8g seems not the right tool for the job I am aiming towards the sigma 35 again... so this would be greatly appreciated.

Best regards,

Harald
 

tashley

Subscriber Member
Tashley

The problem with my lens is that the area where the image is soft is not even in the edge but very close to center. And this is with the camera mounted on a tripod.

DSC_7482.jpg | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

That shot were on a tripod and I used a AF-S with the spot actually pointed at the Sigma box on the number 35. Aperture was at 1.4.

DSC_7483.jpg | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

2nd shot, AF-S still and was focus on the red/orange book below. This time, the picture looks better but still a bit soft I think.

DSC_7484.jpg | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Final shot is again pointed at the sigma box, on the number 35. This time, it is off again. I also did several shot of my daughter and it seems like a hit or miss.

Not sure if that is the same issue as you guys were having. As you can see, it is not even the edges here.

Vince
Vince, I am sorry I wasn't online in this forum for a few days. To be honest that looks to me like an Autofocus Fine Tune issue, it is tending to front focus. But it is also focussing quite variably. See what Sigma say but when it returns, you really need to perform an AF fine tune or you will never get good results through anything other than pure luck...
 

tashley

Subscriber Member
Tim,

since you say you finally got a good copy of this lens now, I would really love to see a landscape/cityscape shot , or one of this amazing castle you often shoot for tests. At sth. between f8 or f11 would be great.

Your words „ Then, when focussed correctly and stopped down a bit, it gets to be a much more technical lens.“ really gave me hope.. currently on the fence to buy a wide angle for the d800e and since the 28mm/1.8g seems not the right tool for the job I am aiming towards the sigma 35 again... so this would be greatly appreciated.

Best regards,

Harald
Harald, I will see what I can do!
 

Quentin_Bargate

Well-known member
Harald,

I have posted quite a few varied shots taken with the Sigma 35 F/1.4 on a D800E in the "Fun with Nikon" images thread - see e.g. messages #8426 or #8690.

They are not massively high resolution posts but trust me the originals are sharp, edge to edge. If you get the Sigma on a tripod, you are in serious quality territory in my opinion.

Quentin

Tim,

since you say you finally got a good copy of this lens now, I would really love to see a landscape/cityscape shot , or one of this amazing castle you often shoot for tests. At sth. between f8 or f11 would be great.

Your words „ Then, when focussed correctly and stopped down a bit, it gets to be a much more technical lens.“ really gave me hope.. currently on the fence to buy a wide angle for the d800e and since the 28mm/1.8g seems not the right tool for the job I am aiming towards the sigma 35 again... so this would be greatly appreciated.

Best regards,

Harald
 

tashley

Subscriber Member
Right Harald, here are a few I just took including your favourite building... they are all available in full resolution 92% quality JPEG. Shot in RAW and converted in LR5 with my usual default sharpening for this sensor of 60/0.7/70/20... each one is shot at f5.6, F8 and F11 handheld no tripod, using phase detect AF. In other words, how it would be used in the real world most of the time - which is useful in some ways and not in others: for example, one downs. know by how much the lens changed its focus between shots because it refocussed for every shot. But what this does show me is pretty much what I know already: the best micro contrast is at F5.6, the best sharpness across the frame is at F8 and the best DOF is at F16 but there is too much diffraction for some subjects at F16.

The first scene: focus was on the mid-level windows of the tower
The second scene: focus was also on the mid level windows of the tower
The third scene: focus was on the small wall-cap turret second from right and then recomposed
The fourth scene: focus was on the central far tree line and then slightly recomposed.

Hope this helps you!

Photos here... and you can mouseover to see options for viewing EXIF or to Download Original...

EDIT: currently uploading is the same distant landscape scene shot on an 80mp Phase One IQ180 with a Rodenstock 40mm HR lens on an Alpa STC technical camera just to show the ultimate benchmark for (roughly) this focal length... The only other lens that gets this scene 100% sharp from edge to edge is the 35mm Zeiss on the RX-1 but then it's only 25mp...
 

Lightleak

New member
Quentin and Tim,

thanks a lot for the examples, they are indeed very helpful.

Tim, your copy of the Sigma lens is so good you should give it a name. The very slight but even border softness is not disturbing at all and counts as character in my eyes. I envy you a bit since I bought a copy today and mine is out of focus on the right side in most shots (My 50mm 1.4G is always sharp on both sides so it is not a camera problem). Will bring it back on wednesday. But looking at your wonderful photos I decided I will not give up that quickly but ask for a replacement copy. Do you have a good idea on how to quickly test in the shop if the right and left borders are equally sharp?
I really hope to find a copy like yours!

Thanks a lot for sharing the images, the quality of the iq180 comparison shot is nothing short of spectacular, as expected. Wow.
 

tashley

Subscriber Member
Hiya,

Testing should be fairly simple actually, just a few frames well-squared to a planar target at F8 and around ten metres or more. Best to do an AFFT if you can, quickly. You can get 90% of the way to a good value on that by shooting an appropriate target and reviewing on screen then tweaking. I'll get shot for saying that but it is true-ish.

I had to go through five copies so prepare for that possibility. And even this one, if I am really picky, has a very very slightly softer right hand side. But it is by far the best I've had and better than most of my other lenses so....

Good luck. Hope you find one!
 
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