The GetDPI Photography Forum

Great to see you here. Join our insightful photographic forum today and start tapping into a huge wealth of photographic knowledge. Completing our simple registration process will allow you to gain access to exclusive content, add your own topics and posts, share your work and connect with other members through your own private inbox! And don’t forget to say hi!

Nikon - what's the way forward?

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
At 3k for 36mpx it's almost disposable . Sony A7r at 2200 for 36mpx is even more so. Yea a D4x would be nice but I won't spend 8k on it when I can get 2 for that price with pocket change. Let's put it this way its a debatable purchase which would not favor Nikon in most cases.
 

GrahamWelland

Subscriber & Workshop Member
Graham,



A pent up market there may be, but it is vanishingly small, relatively speaking. While I dare say it would be nice to shoot D800 resolution in a body with integral grip, the majority of D800 shooters likely consider it a "would like" rather than a "need". In my opinion the prospect of it becoming reality is unlikely given the premium Nikon would charge for what would be their flagship model. D800 shooters would balk at the price, just as they did for the D3x, and retain their D800.

Increased resolution in a body with integral grip, however, is another story altogether.
I don't care about d800 shooters tbh. That's not my point. Those of us brought up on full size bodies with grip are the ones wanting a full size high resolution body. That may not be you but it certainly is me and also more than a few others.
 

RVB

Member
At 3k for 36mpx it's almost disposable . Sony A7r at 2200 for 36mpx is even more so. Yea a D4x would be nice but I won't spend 8k on it when I can get 2 for that price with pocket change. Let's put it this way its a debatable purchase which would not favor Nikon in most cases.
There is a possibility that Nikon will upscale the D7100 sensor to FF,that would be sweet even if it means more demands on the Glass,the Zeiss 135 and Otus would be up to the task,and I believe the Nikon 200f2 and the new 800 for sure..
 

RVB

Member
Guy, Bob and I were discussing this very thing over the weekend. Bottom line is most cell phones of today are better than pro-level 35mm SLRs we had 30 years ago. And everybody's got one, so "photographic images" are not much of a commodity -- nor are paper versions of images valued nearly as much as they used to be.

My Epson 7900 will likely be the last large printer I purchase. Why? Because very few people want prints anymore. I was in Costco the other day and they are now selling 50" flat-panel TV's in twin-packs for under $1000. My next house will have the walls covered in monitors that each have a dozen or so images cycling through them hourly -- changeable art and ambient lighting all in one. Heck, and a little free heat too :lol:

Finally, how much better can Nikon or Canon make an FX sensor? Not much, we are pushing at the edges of physics already. Lenses yes, and here is probably where we'll be seeing some efforts and they need to. But get ready to pay for them if the new 58 is any indication -- incremental increases in performance for 3x the price, just like it's been with audio gear for quite a while. Other option is designer cases, a-la the Df. Some will buy them at what appears to be a 2x pricepoint, and when sales drop off we'll see the same sensor, or perhaps the D600 sensor in another tricked out body -- and we'll buy that too. It's worked for Leica for years, and all it will take is for Nikon to get the feel for what their customers want in an accessory camera.

But at the end of the day, our cell phones produce images that are good enough for even the next generation of 4K displays, so my guess for the future is something like this: DX consumer DSLR's will taper way off and eventually fade as M4/3 has that covered outstandingly well in smaller packages and lighter weights. FX pro-sumer and pro will stay around, but at higher prices. And we'll see the small cameras packed with features taper away as cell phones get all those nifty features.
"Finally, how much better can Nikon or Canon make an FX sensor?" I think they could look at developing the Foveon sensor and moving away from Bayer array's,Just look at how much more sensitive the sensor of the M monochrom is in comparison to the M9....
 
There is a possibility that Nikon will upscale the D7100 sensor to FF,that would be sweet even if it means more demands on the Glass,the Zeiss 135 and Otus would be up to the task,and I believe the Nikon 200f2 and the new 800 for sure..
I think it's safe to say most good lenses are up to the task. People define "the task" differently, but in general it seems we're more sensitive to sharpness and resolution near the center of the frame than near the corners. To wit, most decent lenses can out-resolve the d800 sensor in the center, while hardly anything can in the corners. We're happy with a lot of these lenses.

A slightly higher pixel pitch would just mean it's more demanding for a lens to push toward the potential of the sensor. But every lens would produce images that are at least as good as d800 images, all else being equal.
 

AreBee

Member
Graham,

I don't care about d800 shooters tbh. That's not my point. Those of us brought up on full size bodies with grip are the ones wanting a full size high resolution body. That may not be you but it certainly is me and also more than a few others.
I think you missed my point, which was that unless and until Nikon considers a full sized body with D800 sensor to be profitable, such a body will not be produced.

In my opinion you and the more than a few others that share your wish are statistically insignificant. Therefore, your wish will remain just that. Of course I could be mistaken. We will find out in due course.
 

Floyd Davidson

New member
Adding a grip to a D800 doesn't cut it. Just don't expect to sell it at $8k.
I don't understand this at all. (I use a D4 and a D800 with an MB-D12 grip.)

First, the difference in "robustness" has little to do with the grip or the feel. I'm not sure what others do with cameras, but mine get bounced all over the Arctic tundra traveling on 4-wheel ATV's, and the significance of build quality is extremely important to my needs. I certainly do look forward to the D5 generation from Nikon, which I fully expect to have at least 36MP, probably more. That's not that far in the future either...

But I absolutely do expect to pay a premium price for a premium product. The D800 isn't an $8000 camera, and when they add the same quality build of a D4 I fully expect it is going to cost more than the D800 did (though probably not $8K).

As it is, my D800/MB-D12 get three times the use the D4 does.
 

sector99

New member
Wither NIKON?

They have yet to show their FF mirrorless. To do so means a whole new stable of smaller lenses as well as a special sensor(s).

That leap is big and takes a LOT of time.

Observe how long it took 4/3rds to maximize their technology into the OMD-EM1.

IMO judging the Df harshly misses the bigger picture ... a picture that should include NIKON's FF mirrorless move.

The Df seems a throwaway to feed 1980s photo/mechies.

NIKON hasn't played l their cards.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Well Nikon needs to show there hand because they just missed the biggest buying season of the year and its too late already. Sony is ready, Olympus is ready, Fuji is ready and once again Nikon is missing the boat. Canon is counting on video for there future, I think the tides changing for them. Frankly Sony is about the only one making some innovations thats making people sit up and take notice.
 

GrahamWelland

Subscriber & Workshop Member
Graham,

I think you missed my point, which was that unless and until Nikon considers a full sized body with D800 sensor to be profitable, such a body will not be produced.

In my opinion you and the more than a few others that share your wish are statistically insignificant. Therefore, your wish will remain just that. Of course I could be mistaken. We will find out in due course.
It's always good to be in the presence of total omniscience I suppose. :rolleyes:

Don't worry, as one of the D3x owning clan I'm used to being statistically insignificant. :ROTFL:
 

RVB

Member
Well Nikon needs to show there hand because they just missed the biggest buying season of the year and its too late already. Sony is ready, Olympus is ready, Fuji is ready and once again Nikon is missing the boat. Canon is counting on video for there future, I think the tides changing for them. Frankly Sony is about the only one making some innovations thats making people sit up and take notice.
Good point about the xmas season,I expect Canon to have a big year in 2014,if they come up with a good sensor they'll be back in the mix.. they have a good lens range and rumours of a load of new ones next year,I expect the 35L to be revised and maybe a 14-24L zoom...
 

AreBee

Member
Graham,

It's always good to be in the presence of total omniscience I suppose. :rolleyes:
We both know that I am not omniscient so you may dispense with the sarcasm, which does not become you. :(

I am sorry you are offended by what I have posted. It was not my intent to do so.
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
IMHO Nikon is far too late and they made major mistakes in the past years.

1) Their mirror less camera aka V-system is simply a flop
2) Their APSC line is missing a pro body - would have been much more urgent than the D7100
3) The D4 and D800 were their last really leading cameras, but immediately after that they should have had something like the Sony A7 / A7r ready
4) One of their biggest mistakes was and is that they stick to their lens mount and lens system since fare too long. At least the intro of mirror less needs a new mount and lens system
5) many of their even pro grade lenses are not up to 36MP
6) What sense does it make to introduce a D4X if they do not even have enough lenses which are up to the job
7) The Df is not more than a lame excuse not to have gone into a reasonable mirror less system in time.

So bottom line, competition, which was not even there some 4 years ago like Olympus and Panasonic with m43, Fuji's X system and Sony with the A series cameras plus Nex and now A7 have established as serious pliers. Meanwhile even Pros are moving to the new mirror less camps, as they no longer suffer from weak implementations.

The only advantage Nikon has is that even Canon did not make the jump to mirror less so far (again the Eos M I do not see as a serious system).

So end of the day the future does not look bright for Nikon. Should not mean they will disappear, but the newcomers are to be expected to take over big parts of Nikon sales in the coming months and years. Even if their systems are maybe not as mature and ready as the Nikon system. But their technology is ready and they have the potential to become the new Number "ONE'S".
 

glenerrolrd

Workshop Member
Wow ..not sure the facts back up the direction of this thread . Canon and Nikon essentially split the DSLR market (check my facts but isn t this the only profitable segment that has any volume )?

Stepping back from our personal wishes ....both Canon and Nikon make terrific cameras . I know Nikon best but the D800/E,D4 ,D600 and D7000 are all incredibly competent DSLR . You have a huge range of lenses at all different price points ..from the 50/1.8AF at less than $200 to the best telephoto the 800/5.6 AF at $17K . There is enough volume to attract 3rd party vendors like Zeiss .

Size and weight are always the "complaint" ...but a D600 with a 50/1.4G is small enough and you can even see what you are capturing . Yes if you insist on using the faster Pro zooms ....a DSLR can be a beast . I shoot with a 600/4 on a D4 and that is no small amount of gear ....but I use a large Monopod and drive right up to the Polo field ..once I start shooting I forget about it .

It is not clear at this point that the m43 market will ever be truly profitable ...I am uncertain as to where all the smaller than FF segments will end up .....maybe all replaced by the Smart Phone ?

This is not to say that Nikon hasn t stumbled but I am still waiting for Sony to get beyond the consumer electronics mentality . Innovation without follow thru has been the Sony "signature" as long as I have been buying their products .

No question that none of the major providers of photographic products look to be particularly well run ..but Nikon seems to be getting quite a lot right .

Happy Nikon user.
 
Top