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Nikon to Leica S?

RVB

Member
Ah right, thanks Rob, less likely that I'd be using the zoom for studio/flash work but interesting to know what it is capable of. I don't have any zooms, I actually prefer primes but have read very good things on the quality of the 30-90.

Cheers

Mat
Mat,I'm also more of a prime user,and mine are all CS as I love using flash too,I guess the Zoom would be great to have when travelling with the intention of landscape,architecture etc and you dont have to worry about changing lenses and picking up dust,also keeps the bag light,its not that heavy at 1200grams,the hasselblad 35-90 is about 1450grams..
 

Landscapelover

Senior Subscriber Member
Hey MJR,

....Go for the S, not the S2. The S2 was a bit "cheap" in hands (plastics and all) but the S feel more serious....
The price difference between the S and S2 is ~ $ 10, 000.
To me...It is a luxurious camera compared to Nikon 800e and a little "more expensive" in hands compared to the Phase One DF+ and Hasselblad H.
If you can have $10, 000 to spend, go for it! If I were you (I guess you will use it for landscape work) I will keep $10, 000 to buy a Leica lens (30-90mm) or a couple of Leica lenses.
Or wait for Leica CMOS 50mp!
Pramote
 
M

mjr

Guest
Pramote

You are of course correct, the sensor is the same, better high ISO performance that I don't really need and $10k will buy some great trips to some stunning landscapes, which is after all the whole point!

Cheers!

Mat
 

Paratom

Well-known member
The price difference between the S and S2 is ~ $ 10, 000.
To me...It is a luxurious camera compared to Nikon 800e and a little "more expensive" in hands compared to the Phase One DF+ and Hasselblad H.
If you can have $10, 000 to spend, go for it! If I were you (I guess you will use it for landscape work) I will keep $10, 000 to buy a Leica lens (30-90mm) or a couple of Leica lenses.
Or wait for Leica CMOS 50mp!
Pramote
I did move from the S2 to the S mostly for the slightly better 1600 ISO. Also the "facelift" from S2 to S included many small improvements + the 3 years warranty. From what I hear reliability of the S is improved over the S2.

Having said this I agree that you can buy 1-2 nice lenses if you get a good deal for a used S2 instead of buying the S.
I don't share the impression that the S feels more solid in the hand than the S2.
 

Shashin

Well-known member
Not an S user, but a Pentax 645d and D800E user. Some thoughts:

Viewfinder is no comparison. D800 is small and dark and a pain with manual focus.

The color is better in the 645d. Whether this is a CCDS CMOS thing, I don't know. The S and 645d share the same CCDS technology. If the S gets a new CMOS, it will not be 50Mp, but something less because of aspect ratio. I don't think the difference in resolution is big.
 

fotografz

Well-known member
Thanks all, great advice!

I think the zoom plus the 180 would be superb but bloody expensive that setup!

Marc, lighting is top of my list so cs may be a necessity, what speed does the 30-90 sync at?

Guy, I think you need a 200 f2 in your life again! Haha.

Mat
The 24mm, 30-90zoom and TS-APO 120/5.6 are not offered in CS versions and according to Leica will not be in future. So the top sync speed with strobes is 1/125 … which is why all my lenses are the CS versions, and why I don't have the zoom (can't afford that kind of redundancy).

I think a nice "eventual" kit would be the CS30, CS45, CS70 (which sometimes can be secured more economically with a used S2 camera), and the CS180 for portraits. The CS120 is an amazing optic but slower handling due to the longer throw for precise macro focusing.

The problem with CS lenses is that they were very late coming so not many used ones out there … where the focal plane versions have been around longer and there are a lot more of them, especially the 70 and 180 which were the first two lenses released. Leica had some nice deals on refurbished S lenses after they fulfilled the promise to early adopters to take them in trade for CS versions at the retail price difference. That is essentially how I got all my lenses upgraded to new CS ones after 3 years of owning the regular ones.

BTW, I also do not agree that the build quality is substantively different between the two models. The new S has a better LCD cover (Gorilla Glass) than the regular S2, however the S2P has an even better LCD cover (if you can find one). Most of the teething issues with the S2 were worked out and any issues swiftly dealt with by Leica … so most S2s are now just fine.

What the new S offers is a bit lower initial ISO @ 100, and a bit higher @ 1,600; a better buffer, supposedly slightly better AF (although few folks have been able to detect that in practical application), and a few other things as part of an evolutionary improvement … wasn't enough for me to upgrade at these prices.

If Leica goes CMOS, which I suspect they will, I won't be getting that one either unless they can match the CCD color of the S2/S, especially skin tones.

- Marc
 

D&A

Well-known member
I really liked the 30-90 lens. The 120 hunts like a dog, Sorry but not a quick lens. The 180 is very very nice
Exactly my impressions on using the 120 with both the S and S2 bodies on a number of occasions. It hunted constantly and often had difficulty locking focus with good indoor lighting including a couple modeling lights from strobes. It did better outdoors. Optically though a superb piece of glass as was the rest of Leica S optics I used.

Dave (D&A)
 

Shashin

Well-known member
120mm macros are just in some magical optical sweet spot. I can't think of one that is less than stellar. I really like the 120mm as a short telephoto over the more common 150mm. The thing I like is there is no practical minimum focus distance for most photography like portraits. The 150mm lenses I have used have always had a minimum focus distance that is just a little too long.
 

Paratom

Well-known member
I agree that the 120 takes longer for focusing but I would like to mention that I do not find this to be really bad. The long focus throw also helps for precise focusing when using manual focus. Also if you use the lens in light situations where it can hunt too much it is easy to manually focus due to the shallow DOF and the bright viewfinder (and f2.5).
I also suggested the 180 for portrait but in the other side the 120 is more compact, faster, slightly smoother bokeh and has the advantage of close focusing distance. Yes-there is the Elpro for the 180 (which I own) but I find it a bit annoying to screw it on and off.
Cheers, Tom
 

fotografz

Well-known member
I agree that the 120 takes longer for focusing but I would like to mention that I do not find this to be really bad. The long focus throw also helps for precise focusing when using manual focus. Also if you use the lens in light situations where it can hunt too much it is easy to manually focus due to the shallow DOF and the bright viewfinder (and f2.5).
I also suggested the 180 for portrait but in the other side the 120 is more compact, faster, slightly smoother bokeh and has the advantage of close focusing distance. Yes-there is the Elpro for the 180 (which I own) but I find it a bit annoying to screw it on and off.
Cheers, Tom
Oh, do elaborate on the Elpro please! It isn't exactly an inexpensive accessory.

I understand the minimum focusing distance gets closer, but what is the approx maximum distance to subject so I can evaluate the working range? I don't think I'd be put off by having to put it on as I'd be using it for a series of portraits at certain closer distances.

Have you tried it on any other S lens? I know it is optimized for the 180, but can it be used on the 120 with "reasonable" success? It'd be great if I could get closer with the 120 than 1:2.

Thanks in advance,

- Marc
 

Hulyss Bowman

Active member
I did move from the S2 to the S mostly for the slightly better 1600 ISO. Also the "facelift" from S2 to S included many small improvements + the 3 years warranty. From what I hear reliability of the S is improved over the S2.

Having said this I agree that you can buy 1-2 nice lenses if you get a good deal for a used S2 instead of buying the S.
I don't share the impression that the S feels more solid in the hand than the S2.
When I first grabbed the S2 ... he was slightly used. The plastics was not that good, especially the shutter button :p I was " wow !!! this ??? at this price ..."

I was not sure about the battery system too but it seems solid.

When I got the S : "haaa !!! Better !!"

There is some second S second hand around too.
 

Paratom

Well-known member
Oh, do elaborate on the Elpro please! It isn't exactly an inexpensive accessory.

I understand the minimum focusing distance gets closer, but what is the approx maximum distance to subject so I can evaluate the working range? I don't think I'd be put off by having to put it on as I'd be using it for a series of portraits at certain closer distances.

Have you tried it on any other S lens? I know it is optimized for the 180, but can it be used on the 120 with "reasonable" success? It'd be great if I could get closer with the 120 than 1:2.

Thanks in advance,

- Marc
The german S-Website says:
LEICA ELPRO-S 180MM
Die Nahlinse Leica Elpro-S 180 mm ist ausschließlich zur Verwendung am Leica APO-Elmar-S 1:3,5/180 mm vorgesehen und wird in das Filtergewinde des Objektivs geschraubt. Mit dem angesetztem Leica Elpro-S 180mm kann man im Bereich von 1,1 bis 2,7 m fokussieren und erreicht bei der Naheinstellgrenze einen Abbildungsmaßstab von 1:4,5.

- distance 1,1-2,7 meter
- it is exclusively thought to be used on the 180

I just screwed it on the 120 and it seems to work, but I don't know yet how good the IQ will be.
Overall haven't really used the Elpro so far so I can't tell you how good it is, but I have run to the short distance limit of the 180 some times before so I thought it is good to have the Elpro.
 

jduncan

Active member
The 24mm, 30-90zoom and TS-APO 120/5.6 are not offered in CS versions and according to Leica will not be in future. So the top sync speed with strobes is 1/125 … which is why all my lenses are the CS versions, and why I don't have the zoom (can't afford that kind of redundancy).

I think a nice "eventual" kit would be the CS30, CS45, CS70 (which sometimes can be secured more economically with a used S2 camera), and the CS180 for portraits. The CS120 is an amazing optic but slower handling due to the longer throw for precise macro focusing.

The problem with CS lenses is that they were very late coming so not many used ones out there … where the focal plane versions have been around longer and there are a lot more of them, especially the 70 and 180 which were the first two lenses released. Leica had some nice deals on refurbished S lenses after they fulfilled the promise to early adopters to take them in trade for CS versions at the retail price difference. That is essentially how I got all my lenses upgraded to new CS ones after 3 years of owning the regular ones.

BTW, I also do not agree that the build quality is substantively different between the two models. The new S has a better LCD cover (Gorilla Glass) than the regular S2, however the S2P has an even better LCD cover (if you can find one). Most of the teething issues with the S2 were worked out and any issues swiftly dealt with by Leica … so most S2s are now just fine.

What the new S offers is a bit lower initial ISO @ 100, and a bit higher @ 1,600; a better buffer, supposedly slightly better AF (although few folks have been able to detect that in practical application), and a few other things as part of an evolutionary improvement … wasn't enough for me to upgrade at these prices.

If Leica goes CMOS, which I suspect they will, I won't be getting that one either unless they can match the CCD color of the S2/S, especially skin tones.

- Marc

Totally agree that like the key point of medium format, colors.
The good news is that if the CMOS sensor result in a revolution we may get used CCD based MF cameras on the cheep :)

So one way or the other we won.

Best regards,
J. Duncan
 
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