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I love DSLR

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
I took a break from DSLR for a long time for all the reasons we love mirrorless: light, discreet, cheap, etc.

But I shot a D3x last week and boy, what a revelation! Didn't have to worry about battery life, about slow focus, about small EVF, about buffer, about anything. just took the camera and shot. And the results came out as what I envisioned.

Yes, my shoulder is still sore, but I'm seriously thinking about getting back to DSLR again.
I love DSLR too, but after I got the GH3, I don't need to worry about "battery life, about slow focus, about small EVF, about buffer, about anything". Sometimes, I think that I'll keep the D700 for events and portraits, but the portrait lenses for m4/3 are better than anything I can afford for 35mm. Sometimes, I think I'll miss the OVF, but not when I see the instant review in the GH3 viewfinder or I switch to video by pushing a button, still not removing my eye from the viewfinder.

I've considered keeping my OM Zuiko lenses and use them with an A7s for shots in the dark and very shallow DOF portraits, but then I ask myself: Is that worth $3,000? An f/0.95 lens on the GH4 that I'll buy anyway will solve that, and even the PanaLeica 42.5mm f/1.2 gives me shallower DOF than I'm usually comfortable with.

To me now, optical viewfinders end up in the same category as film; they are nice for nostalgic reasons, but as opposed to film, they have no impact whatsoever on the image quality. I'll keep the F6 though, and will probably buy some nice 35/85 or 28/50/85 combo for it. Apart from that, optical viewfinders are fast becoming ancient history, at least for me.
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
Oh, and another thing an optical viewfinder won't do for me:
The moment I touched the shutter release for this photo, the EVF of the GH3 had a little square around the woman's face, confirming that she was what the camera was focusing on. No need to think, just continue the movement and push all the way through. A fraction of a second later, when there was a clear picture in the viewfinder again, the image was gone forever, like so many images before it, except with the GH3, I was able to take the photo fast enough to save that moment of time to a little electronic card, deep inside this ugly but beautiful, little camera :)

GH3 with Zuiko 75mm f/1.8 @ f/1.8



The photo is a crop btw. There's even more confusion around the edges which may or may not make life for "old style" AF technology difficult.
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
I love DSLR too, but after I got the GH3, I don't need to worry about "battery life, about slow focus, about small EVF, about buffer, about anything". Sometimes, I think that I'll keep the D700 for events and portraits, but the portrait lenses for m4/3 are better than anything I can afford for 35mm. Sometimes, I think I'll miss the OVF, but not when I see the instant review in the GH3 viewfinder or I switch to video by pushing a button, still not removing my eye from the viewfinder.

I've considered keeping my OM Zuiko lenses and use them with an A7s for shots in the dark and very shallow DOF portraits, but then I ask myself: Is that worth $3,000? An f/0.95 lens on the GH4 that I'll buy anyway will solve that, and even the PanaLeica 42.5mm f/1.2 gives me shallower DOF than I'm usually comfortable with.

To me now, optical viewfinders end up in the same category as film; they are nice for nostalgic reasons, but as opposed to film, they have no impact whatsoever on the image quality. I'll keep the F6 though, and will probably buy some nice 35/85 or 28/50/85 combo for it. Apart from that, optical viewfinders are fast becoming ancient history, at least for me.
Exactly my opinion. I loved the EVF of my EM1 as I did love the whole camera, but the XT1 with even better EVF just tops this for me. No longer need to look through relatively dark OVFs even in pro DSLRs compared to the latest EVFs and the XT1 EVF is SOOOO FAST that there is no noticeable delay to be seen but all the advantages of a great EVF!
 

Paratom

Well-known member

Here is Thom Hogan's comparison of a couple of 24x36mm EVF cameras as well as OVF cameras, from Sony and Nikon respectively.

Sony A7 versus Nikon D750 and A7r versus D810 | byThom | Thom Hogan



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I think we should not make the mistake and believe that some mirrorless-lovers-sites like Steve Huff and comparable are representative.
I am sure there are certain Group of users who prefer the smaller size of mirrorless cameras (IMO still the main Advantage).
But I am confident optical viewfinders and DSLRs will last for a Long time.
From a certain lensspeed on lenses get so big that a bigger Body is not a disadvantage but an Advantage.
And do you remember someyears ago when one important feauture of a camera was a short black out time when taking an Image?
Is it ok to sea the last Image when Shooting continues instead of what happens right now when Shooting Action?
I like mirrorless as well, there are Advantages but - IMO- still many Advantages for DLSRs.
 
V

Vivek

Guest
You have a knack to derail a discussion with OT injection. :)

Thom Hogan is one of the staunch Nikonistas. Even he is changing...it isn't just EVF vs OVF. If the next gen Sony sensors debut in a mirrorless body (instead of a Nikon), it is all over for DSLRs.
 

Steve P.

New member
People have been predicting the downfall of DSLRs for years. I guess if we repeat something often enough then, at some point in time, we're eventually going to be proved right. ;)
I don't think it's going to happen any time soon, though!
 
M

mjr

Guest
How can anyone state that dslr's or any type of equipment is dead based solely on their own use for a camera, the idea is absurd! There's a massive amount of choice to suit everyone, why not just concentrate on what you have and take good photographs with it? There's so much rubbish being displayed in the name of art that some would do far better improving their skills than making ridiculous statements. There is no one size fits all, there is a range of products designed to appeal to a range of photographers, if it doesn't match what you want then that's fine. Just get on with photographing stuff!!
 

Steen

Senior Subscriber Member

Let's not regard it as a controversy.
After all we are just spending some time together sharing our experiences, our preferences, and some related links.
Here it is cloudy, cold and wet, and now it's even getting dark so right now I want to stay inside having a nice chat in good company about gear and life and what not.
Nobody's trying to persuade anybody about anything.

My own position is this.
I'm an old dog, even old fashioned in many ways.
I like old fashioned viewfinders (through-the-lens optical), but I have no doubt that the development goes in the electronic viewfinder direction at least for cost savings if for no other reason.
In the meantime I intend to just enjoy the optical finders as long as they exist and afterwards I intend to do my best to adapt to the new reality.

My only true worry is my system mount, in my case the F-mount.
The mount is what defines my system, not some brand name.
My system consists of some Nikon items, some Zeiss items and some Voigtländer items, all in F-mount.
I prefer to avoid adapters, so for me it would be sad to see my system mount go.
I have tried that once in my life when the Leica R mount was discontinued, the biggest gear-related disappointment in my personal history with photography.
I hope not to experience that again.

So the core question for me is this, will the F-mount survive the transition into the new viewfinder technology when that time comes, or will the F-mount be replaced by a new mount ?
Time will tell.


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Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
Steen, I do not think we need worry too much on the F mount disappearing any time soon ;) And on the upside, even if it does, there is a literal plethora of used options available, enough to last you and me twice the rest of our lifetimes :ROTFL:
 

woodyspedden

New member
EVF's will get better, and probably sooner than later. When they become "transparent" we'll have found nirvana with all the possible permutations of informative electronic overlays we can have displayed.
I am not sure about sooner rather than later! For an EVP to approach the optical viewfinder will require about 16 stops of dynamic so that both blacks and whites can be properly rendered in bright, contrasty light.

In addition to my Nikons I have the Fuji XT1 which has arguably the best EVF on the market at this time. It is great for most purposes but for landscape application where shooting in various degrees of contrasty light it still has limitations.

I long for the day when the EVF approaches optical dynamics but at 77 years ofd age I am not holding my breath.

Woody
 

woodyspedden

New member
You have a knack to derail a discussion with OT injection. :)

Thom Hogan is one of the staunch Nikonistas. Even he is changing...it isn't just EVF vs OVF. If the next gen Sony sensors debut in a mirrorless body (instead of a Nikon), it is all over for DSLRs.
There are (apparently) credible rumors that the A7II series is about to launch with significant improvements over the A7 and a new A9 will be released in the first or second quarter of 2015. It is rumored that the A9 will have the Sony 50 Mx now used in a number of MF backs from Hasselblad to Phase One but in a much smaller body. The body is reputedly larger than the A7's but smaller than (for instance) the Pentax 645Z which, I believe uses the Sony sensor as well.

So much to look forward to apparently. I anxiously await the reality

Woody
 
V

Vivek

Guest
I long for the day when the EVF approaches optical dynamics but at 77 years ofd age I am not holding my breath.

Woody
Oh, please! I do not mean any disrespect to you or Steen or Jack. You are only as old as you think you are!

Look at all the young folks having a bash in "fun with the A7 series" over at the Sony section! :)
 

Steen

Senior Subscriber Member

speaking about age



if you get my point :lecture:

(not quite sure I understand it myself, but at least it's the latest)
 

Swissblad

Well-known member
I am not sure about sooner rather than later! For an EVP to approach the optical viewfinder will require about 16 stops of dynamic so that both blacks and whites can be properly rendered in bright, contrasty light.

In addition to my Nikons I have the Fuji XT1 which has arguably the best EVF on the market at this time. It is great for most purposes but for landscape application where shooting in various degrees of contrasty light it still has limitations.

I long for the day when the EVF approaches optical dynamics but at 77 years ofd age I am not holding my breath.

Woody
Ditto - agree 100%
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
Sometimes, like right now, I would like to dump my mirrorless gear and go all SLR again. I've just went through some photos from a recent trip to Myanmar, and some of those taken with the otherwise excellent Panasonic 7-14mm are soft, soft, soft. I suspect it's the software correction that does it, and it's rather unpredictable.

One of the advantages with new technology is that it allows for solutions that wouldn't be possible using traditional methods with elaborate optical designs. Like a pocketable 7-14mm (14-28mm eqv.). One of the disadvantages is that it isn't yet 100% reliable and that once-in-a-lifetime shots can be uglified by software weaknesses or operator errors related to the technology.

It's tempting to dump the mirrorless, buy the D750 and all or most of the f/1.8 series to replace it. At least it's tempting right now. We'll see next week.
 

Steen

Senior Subscriber Member

:eek: ouch, what an inopportune moment for a camera rig to fail, Jorgen, still you managed to make some wonderful images during your Myanmar trip :thumbup:

.
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
Sometimes, like right now, I would like to dump my mirrorless gear and go all SLR again. I've just went through some photos from a recent trip to Myanmar, and some of those taken with the otherwise excellent Panasonic 7-14mm are soft, soft, soft. I suspect it's the software correction that does it, and it's rather unpredictable.

One of the advantages with new technology is that it allows for solutions that wouldn't be possible using traditional methods with elaborate optical designs. Like a pocketable 7-14mm (14-28mm eqv.). One of the disadvantages is that it isn't yet 100% reliable and that once-in-a-lifetime shots can be uglified by software weaknesses or operator errors related to the technology.

It's tempting to dump the mirrorless, buy the D750 and all or most of the f/1.8 series to replace it. At least it's tempting right now. We'll see next week.
Before going with D750 I would definitely suggest D810 - MUCH MUCH better in all respect!
 
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