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Otus 85mm, everything is wrong

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Now Im the first to admit I look at price as a pretty secondary concern to what lenses or gear I want to bolt onto my body but at some point in the buying process one may say Hmmm 4300 dollars , I could buy insert 2,3 or 4 lenses here and that would be money better spent. Hell that would get you two fabulous Canon TSE lenses the 17 and 24 or a 3 Nikon lenses and good ones at that.

I don't like to get into the money aspect, I like to think of it more as for the money spent what can I gain from it. Thats not really a budget issue but a price/value equation.
 

glenerrolrd

Workshop Member
Zeiss views their competition for the OTUS lenses as the Leica S,Hasselblad and Phase . Last year they showed comparisons to medium format using a Nikon D800E body at PhotoPlus in NYC .

I own the OTUS 55 and can compare it first hand to the Nikkors,Leica M,R and S alternatives . Its not hard to pick out the OTUS files and they are as good as any up to the S where the MF CCD sensor and the Leica S lenses are better .

Its unfortunate that the Zeiss design called for a no constraints on size and weight . Leica did a pretty fantastic job on the 50 APO which is a world class lens yet small and light weight .
 
M

mjr

Guest
Evening

I must admit I'm another who doesn't understand the issue with it, I celebrate the conviction of a company who want to make the best at any cost, there will always be a market for it as with products developed with the same mindset from many other industries, musical, automotive, etc. etc.

As for close alternatives, it's proven again and again that there are diminishing returns at higher levels, it's just the way it is. I bought and sold the nikkor 85 1.4 because in my view it didn't justify the cost over the 1.8 because at 1.4 it wasn't much good, if it had been excellent I'd have kept it, if the Zeiss is superb wide open then it will be worth it to people who want a lens that is excellent wide open, there's no shame in that. As for weight, I just don't get the issue, it's just over a kg isn't it? The Nikkor 200 f2 is huge, weighs a ton and has incredible image quality, what's the big deal? It's not a 4 door saloon it's a lens!

My opinion for what it's worth is good on Zeiss for pushing the envelope and bashing their efforts is just madness, if you don't want it don't buy it!

Mat
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
Mat,

With all due respect, I don't think you can say people's comment about this optic are anything close to bashing. They are more along the lines of inquiring why which is very different than bashing...
 

eleanorbrown

New member
I use the Otus 55 on my Nikon D810 and it is an unbeatable combination and gets at or near my Phase One….. With that said, the price and weight of the Otus 85 is too much…Ridiculous weight…..and I thought the 55 was heavy! I have the Zeiss 100 f2 and the Nikon 85 1.4 I can use.
Eleanor
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Very different than bashing. I think everyone here applauds Zeiss for bringing it to market but the question is why enter a very crowded 85mm group when where most everyone would like to see there expertise in bringing to market a area that really needs help like the wide to extreme wide or specialty lenses. This is where 3rd party vendors can make a nice marketing entrance and fill gaps for end users. For instance there is not a 28mm worth salt out there except for some older glass that was made for a Leica R 28mm and Nikons 28mm 1.4 which both have been discontinued. Exceptions of course on 28mm but Sony don't even make one for instance. All of us on these forums speak from a end users point of view and what they would like to see. It's not bashing its more value, quality and what's needed in our hands. Heck love to have it but for me and my business does not make much sense since I have a very good 85 right now.
 

RVB

Member
It's 175grs more than Canon's 85L 1,2.. its not that bad considering the IQ,the filter size is listed as 86mm,this is pretty unusual ..at least to me..

I'm also betting that Video guys will buy this in ZF mount,its cheap and light compared to cine glass..

Rob
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
I'm also betting that Video guys will buy this in ZF mount,its cheap and light compared to cine glass..
Good point Rob, specially if it has some stellar bokeh character...
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
For instance there is not a 28mm worth salt out there except for some older glass that was made for a Leica R 28mm and Nikons 28mm 1.4 which both have been discontinued.
Glad you qualified this by excluding my baby! :ROTFL::ROTFL::ROTFL:
 
D

Deleted member 7792

Guest
While I [too] am a bit disappointed and puzzled at the Zeiss 85mm Otus specifics, I have to remind myself that when the D800 was introduced, we all were complaining that the available lenses fell short when mated with a 36MP sensor. Lenses have long lives, much longer than camera body designs. Maybe Zeiss is looking beyond the current crop of digital SLR bodies, to a time when the distinction between a 35mm DSLR and a MFD camera will be even more blurred than it is today. Think 10 years, not 2 years. Just sayin'.

Joe
 
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Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
The video people will be all over this lens (I believe the fastest 85mm Compact Prime from Zeiss is T2.1), and converted cine versions will be available more or less the same day as the lens hits the market. I'm also sure that I would buy it if I could afford it. I have to agree with Guy though: Anything between 20 and 28mm would have been a great supplement to the surprisingly mediocre selection of lenses that are available for SLR cameras at the moment. But it probably makes better commercial sense to make a 85mm. Nothing looks as convincing as a great portrait taken with a great lens, and that will convince many amateurs with deep pockets that this is the lens to have. Never mind that some of these lenses will end up being used for photos of DCB (Dogs, Cats and Brick walls). Zeiss run a business, and the more customers the better.
 

jagsiva

Active member
There has to be something said for pursuing "excellence" and forgoing cost or practicality:)

I would buy both if they came in E-mount. I need the EVF to get the most out of these, manually focussing these and getting the best out of them on my 800E would be a non-starter.
 

GrahamWelland

Subscriber & Workshop Member
I have a few friends who will always want the very best in everything, be it Leica, digital backs, tech camera lenses from Rodenstock, etc etc. they will always be able to buy these lenses and the manufacturers know that and will also I think factor in the path finding, proof of excellence marketing that lenses like this represent.

I remember how Sony and B&O follow this principle at times with innovative, insanely expensive impractical solutions for the masses but they show off the technical excellence of the company overall. The same thing occurs in the automotive industry - just look at the VW Phaeton W12 or Maybach for example.
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
Ming Thein sums it up very nicely:
"However, note that it’s not a lens for everybody: dedication to technique and vision are required to extract the most from it. Then there’s the cost and size/weight issue: I’m sure many keystrokes will be wasted to explaining why alternative X at $1000 is better. It may well be comparable if you get a good sample and stop down a bit, or don’t print and only view online; but a big part of the reason why the Otuses (Otii?) are so expensive is because of Zeiss’ QC procedures. I have used half a dozen Otus 55s and two Otus 85s for various reasons and from various batches/ owners – they are all, as far as I can tell, identical in delivering the same extremely high performance. This is not a trivial achievement: any of you who can shoot to the level of maximising everything out of your equipment and have tested more than one sample of a lens will know that consistency is almost impossible to achieve. I have never personally seen any other brand with this level of consistency. If you cannot see the difference (and no web image is going to do it justice; full resolution on a high grade monitor as a minimum, a print ideally), then don’t bother – buy a cheaper AF alternative and not have to deal with manual focus. Extremely shallow depth of field wide open plus that beautifully crisp transition between in and out of focus areas makes achieving critical focus both necessary (missed focus is obvious) and challenging; beyond that, if you don’t have a camera that can make full use of the resolving power and color rendition of the lens, or the skill to deploy all of that potential, it’s somewhat wasted. I honestly feel that the lens still has more to give – but we don’t have the sensors for it yet. I suppose that’s future-proofing. My accountant is already making unhappy noises, but personally, I can’t wait for the next Otus…MT"

Here's his review:
Lens review: The Zeiss ZF.2 1.4/85 Otus APO-Planar
 
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mjr

Guest
I have to say that those images on Ming's review are some of the best I have seen from him, simply stunning to my eye. Obviously a lot of that is down to his composition but as a whole they are seriously good.

Mat
 

glenerrolrd

Workshop Member
Diglloyd (a pay site) has an extensive series of examples . Like Ming he was provided an OTUS 85 weeks ago …..so unlike the typical “first look” reviews …he can support his opinions with numerous examples .

After reviewing both tests in some detail ..its hard not to agree that the OTUS on a D810 may produce the best performance ever regardless of format ……and for sure at F1.4 where it has no competition .

Its all so pretty clear that this is a lens for those that specialize and because of the size and weight ….not a typical walk around or travel lens . For my use its a alternative to Medium Format …..a lens for the D810 ….and not part of my Df kit .
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Have not read his review but looked at images. Nice shots and maybe the horse image takes advantage of the lens but honestly nothing to make me go run out and buy it. Not saying it's not great just have not seen it yet and Lloyd's review I'm not bothering to read. Just not a fan of his reviews.
 

Shashin

Well-known member
You guys have no imagination (or maxed out credit cards). With the size and weight of this thing, let alone cost, you would also need to buy an Arca Swiss Cube to put it on. Then probably need to upgrade to a new pair of RRS carbon fiber legs. Which, in turn, would require a new bag. This is the ultimate in retail therapy. (Just make sure you can afford the divorce.)

Shop or go home!
 
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