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Nikon to go FX mirrorless….

Steen

Senior Subscriber Member
(...) The 800 series use the same sensors from Sony. What sort of problems do they pose? (...)

I don't know, Vivek.
My own personal experience is limited to an attempt with combination of some Leica M optics mounted on Micro Four Third cameras.
To my surprise that experiment didn't turn out very well despite the fact that the M4/3 sensor has an area of only about ~ 25 % of the format the M lenses and their image circles were designed for.

This made me suspect that optics with their optical formulas are designed for specific flange-to-sensor distances, and maybe also the other way round that sensor layers and their thicknesses are designed for specific optical formulas.
Otherwise I don't get it why an expensive full frame M lens could be such a disappointing performer on such a small sensor that only uses the very best centre of the image circle ?

I have just read so many times about problems with all these combinations that I for one prefer to just stick with native mount lenses and concentrate on content.
That's just me, and you probably shouldn't take too much notice of this preference of mine.
Whatever works well for you is of course fine.

With regards to Nikon I just hope that the F-mount will survive the transition to Electronic Viewfinder cameras if at some point the Nikon company decides to take that EVF route for its FX and DX format cameras.
In the hope that my lenses will stay native-mount lenses and not become obsolete.
In the hope that I don't have to start all over and buy new native mount lenses.
That's all there is to it.

I'm not so sure that the D800 series uses the same sensor as Sony.
I suspect that both of them are designed and optimized for each their lens mount respectively, simply due to the different flange-to-sensor distances ?
As I said I got the impression from the above mentioned presentation video that the A7R sensor needs offset micro-lenses whereas I have never heard or read that any of the D8xx series sensors use offset micro-lenses.

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Vivek

Guest
Oh, EVF is coming without a question! You can't go mirrorless without an EVF. Otherwise it will be a disaster like the Pentax experiment.

I do not find any problems with Nikon F lenses on Sony cameras. My point is not to convince anyone that S is better than N. Not at all. The point of discussion is the change of mount and Nikon may be providing an adapter to use the F mount lenses.

Given the history, Nikon will likely still produce F mount cameras (like they did with the F6) during the transition.
 
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Vivek

Guest
I don't know, Vivek.
My own personal experience is limited to an attempt with combination of some Leica M optics mounted on Micro Four Third cameras.
To my surprise that experiment didn't turn out very well despite the fact that the M4/3 sensor has an area of only about ~ 25 % of the format the M lenses and their image circles were designed for.

This made me suspect that optics with their optical formulas are designed for a specific flange-to-sensor distances, and maybe also the other way round that sensor layers and their thicknesses are designed for specific optical formulas.
Otherwise I don't get it why an expensive full frame M lens could be such a disappointing performer on such a small sensor that only uses the very best centre of the image circle ?
Two things:

1. The m43 has ~5mm of glass on its sensor. So, a completely different design in a lens is warranted while using lenses designed for film.

2. The pixel density in m43rds sensor is very high. One needs very high resolution lenses. ^^

When I tried the Panasonic 20/1.7 on a NEX-6 (APS-C, very thin filter stack on the sensor), it was just too sharp. Brittle sharp and just horrible. :eek:

BTW, Steen, the sensor stack thickness in Nikon cams vary wildly. Everything is an approximation.
 
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Vivek

Guest
BTW, Steen, the flange distance of an F mount lens to the image plane remains exactly the same. Here is a sample shot (you may remember the adapter! :) ), the lens is front heavy (on any camera). Showing off two unique items (besides the gift- the adapter) - 1. UV-Nikkor 105/4.5, formerly used by a digital UV pioneer Mr.Fumio Yokozawa 2. The first FF digital UV cam.

Untitled by Vivek Iyer, on Flickr
A7r, Color Yashinon 40/1.7
 

Steen

Senior Subscriber Member
Nikon to go FX mirrorless ...


BTW, Steen, the flange distance of an F mount lens to the image plane remains exactly the same. Here is a sample shot (you may remember the adapter! :)) (...)

Yup, I'm totally with you on that part, Vivek.
My worry is only that if a future Nikon mirrorless gets a new mount with a shorter flange-to-sensor distance, then the sensor will most likely be designed and optimized specifically for that new native mount and its shorter register (maybe even with offset microlenses) and for the new lenses - not for the old F-mount optics.

In that case the new optics may very well be better suited for such a new camera than the old F-mount lenses.
It's just that I like my present lenses, so I wouldn't like to see the F-mount go. That's all.
Anyway, we'll see what happens.

:D and yes, I do recognize the adapter, nice UV rig :thumbup:
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
Re: Nikon to go FX mirrorless ...





Yup, I'm totally with you on that part, Vivek.
My worry is only that if a future Nikon mirrorless gets a new mount with a shorter flange-to-sensor distance, then the sensor will most likely be designed and optimized specifically for that new native mount and its shorter register (maybe even with offset microlenses) and for the new lenses - not for the old F-mount optics.

In that case the new optics may very well be better suited for such a new camera than the old F-mount lenses.
It's just that I like my present lenses, so I wouldn't like to see the F-mount go. That's all.
Anyway, we'll see what happens.

:D and yes, I do recognize the adapter, nice UV rig :thumbup:
A new mirror less FF Nikon will hopefully benefit from a shorter flange distance which allows to design new lenses much smaller and more optimized for this new system resulting in lighter equipment and better IQ. Who would not want that?

Of course the "old" Nikkor F mount glass needs to stay useable via an adapter, which Nikon needs to offer to not offend their legacy SLR and DSLR users. And I am pretty sure Nikon DSLRs will still stay for at least a long time as many photographers just prefer and will prefer mirrors and OVF. Nikon has one of the best DSLR technology lineups, so they can (and NEED) to keep this alive as long as possible.

Having said that they no longer can ignore the benefits from mirror less and this is a very good thing. I have got accustomed to using EVFs and dare I say the ones in EM1 and XT1 are stellar and offer so many advantages for me over even the best OVFs that I do not look back to DSLRs a single time.

My hope is that Nikon will be able to build a real Nikon mirror less camera which is in the size of the good old FM/FE line decades ago or at least not larger than the legendary F3 - which both I still own and love to shoot from time to time. They have all this knowledge and design already in house so hopefully will build on that for their new mirror less camera lineup.

The future looks actually very bright :)
 

Steen

Senior Subscriber Member
Re: Nikon to go FX mirrorless ...


A new mirror less FF Nikon will hopefully benefit from a shorter flange distance which allows to design new lenses much smaller and more optimized for this new system resulting in lighter equipment and better IQ. Who would not want that?
(...)
The future looks actually very bright :)

I do understand your reasoning, Peter.
I just happen to dislike the idea of trading the F-mount just to save a few grams and a bit of space.
And I'm not convinced that a shorter register means better IQ, on the contrary I believe the steep light ray angles use to increase the amount of problems that have to be solved either by software corrections or by offset microlenses.
A full frame camera with autofocus lenses will never be a pocket-sized gadget anyway, it will remain a tool and hopefully with tool character.
Anyway, it's good that there are optimists to counterbalance my pessimism :D
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
Given the history, Nikon will likely still produce F mount cameras (like they did with the F6) during the transition.
Like they do with the F6. Last time I checked, it was still in production, around 100 bodies a year, and it's still a current product on their websites.

I think DSLR cameras will be made for many years still, but eventually, they will end up in the same category as vinyl records, large format cameras and film. That may take longer than I thought only a couple of years ago though. There are no mirrorless cameras out there that can duplicate what a D810 or a D4s does. Not even close.

What surprises me is that we haven't seen a DSLR with a hybrid viewfinder, something like the one on the Fuji X100 and X-Pro1. Imagine a faster, more pro-like D750 with hybrid viewfinder plus an electronic shutter... there are still possibilities out there :)
 
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