I'm curious how many people would still be interested if it meant that the D900 would cost ~$4500 (judging from the $1K price jump of the A7R with the new sensor in it.)
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If they include all of this and stuff it into a body with integrated vertical grip and sell it for $4,500, I would be in heaven, and I probably wouldn't be alone there. Unfortunately, that sounds more like $8,000.
If there is a "hybrid" view finder, we can expect cams with only EVF (likely D7XXX). That is progress!
I just can say that mirrors are a thing of the past. Nikon Canon should follow up Sony in this adventure of the full frame mirrorless.
In other to keep us using same glass for a time just add an AF adapter for their lenses and maybe a Tilt Shift adapter as well.
Am I asking too much?
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I still prefer an optical VF. I do like some features in an EVF, but for my regular imaging, EVF doesn't cut it yet.
"Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."6 Member(s) liked this post
I have to agree with you Jack, it's always going to be personal preference but in my opinion, looking at a subject through a good optical viewfinder takes you in to the scene, it feels 3 dimensional and I can feel the image and how it builds up, looking at an EVF, even the latest ones feels 2 dimensional to me, like I'm removed that extra step from the reality, might sound daft but it's the way I feel. I loved having the option of optical and switching to live view on DSLR's, best of both worlds as I work from a tripod most of the time, I would really miss having the option for both. The Leica S viewfinder I have now is just incredible, I don't need electronic aids for focus, it's just so visible that you know you are in focus, it shows how level you are and what settings you have, the only thing good optical view finders don't show is a wysiwyg view like EVF do but if you have even a basic grasp of exposure then why would you need it?
I'm all for advancing technology but for me personally, evf is solving problems that don't exist, give me a good optical viewfinder that lets me see deep in to the scene in a realistic way every time!
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EVF vs OVF :
I recently broke my D700 (it's not dead but need a repair). I have other cameras at my disposal such as Sigma DP2/3, Leica M9P with summi 50 1.4 Asph + summi 35 1.4 Asph, A7r and some lenses. I do not even want to touch this gear. I'm sad and want my babe back because OVF, weight (seriousness ??).
It is also why I sold my fuji XT-1 + lenses system : just gadget for me.
I might get a D810 very soon if NPS isn't quick enough, and, renting it time to time, it is just the best tool a photographer can dream about in this price range. DSLR is far to be dead, OVF is far to be dead, maybe Focal Planer Shutter will die before mirror (and lenses will be upgraded).
Let's talk about technical revolution in 2020.
Also, D810 is pretty rare in the field. Most D800 users were just spoiled and can't really upgrade. D810 in the real wild are not legion.
The whole A7R2D2 extravaganza just let me cold. Really. Imho, it is not a big step forward over even the D800. A D810 is more serious in all regards (price, build, files and so on...). I think ppl are just very happy to buy new stuff, even if the delta with old gear is minimal and, like the stock market today, the morning glory fall pretty quickly. I'm pragmatic; an A7R2D2 is a kind of cat/lizard/parrot... whatever when a D810/5DIII is a working horse.
When you work, you do not bring your cat with you. If you do, you'll always fear to kill it.
Photography is a about capturing light - but you can't really have a romance about it - if you are unhappy with the viewfinder you are looking through. Nothing beats the clarity of a rangefinder or a big mirrored OVF. Until the modern geek boy stuff delivers brighter sharper view of light it will always be a toy - not that there is anything wrong with toys for grown ups - but for me they are interesting toys and I would never ever pick my A7 ahead of a Leica or a Nikon when I need to get a shot - the EVF is just no fun for my eyes. Maybe one day one year the EVF tech will be superior to the OVF - as soon as that happens my eyes will lead me to EVF - because it will make it easier to see the light I am chasing.
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I'm going on a one week journey on Monday, and since it's a good photo opportunity, I bring two camera bodies and a selection of lenses; D700 plus D810 with 21, 28, 50, 105, 180, 300 and 24-135mm lenses. When I've added extra batteries, chargers etc., the bag will be around 10 kilograms. The Mac comes in addition to that, but it will stay in the hotel while I'm taking photos.
If I used Sony A7RII plus A7s with the same lenses, it would have been 5-600 grams lighter (lighter bodies but more batteries). That's 5-6%. I do not think I'd notice.
I don't care what gear I have.
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As for the 28mm... it's a lens I use a lot, but I might be just as well off going from 21 + 28mm to 18 + 24 or 25mm. Not right now though, and the 21mm is not a lens I'll part with lightly. It's as good as its reputation and then some.
I don't care what gear I have.
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On my earlier EVF comment - sure, an OVF is more fun and draws you in the scene and all that. But I'm wearing glasses and my 'dominant' eye only has 60% or so sight. I was playing around with my son's Sony A6000 and stuck my Nikon 24mm/1.4 on it with an adapter - the focus peaking is so impressive! I should not have done that - the 24mm is now a 'standard' on his A6000...
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I don't care what gear I have.
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For the D850/D900... I do not think you'll find any revolution in it. Maybe more pixels and at least the D810 hardware ?? But not a revolution, I seriously doubt about that and we might not see it before next year.
The best way, IMHO, is to take the D810 because it is actually beyond sufficient for 95% of us
Although we all expect the D850/D900 to get a significant MP boost - at least what rumors tell, so either it would be "only" 42MP (like the Sony A7rII) or even higher like 50+MP, which is nice for studio and some other applications, but for my purposes as wildlife camera even the D810 with 36MP is already kind of overkill.
WRT other feature upgrades, I have the feeling that Nikon could easily stop/kill all the mirrorless FF requests by simply adding an EVF option to some of their new DSLRs, either integrated or as separate EVF, like the one for the Nikon 1 V3. This would be simply possible by mounting it in a new universal flash shoe like a number of other vendors have already shown. And then you just need to switch over to LV (either manually or through an eye sensor in the EVF) and have all advantages of a mirrorless system with the possibility to use all the existing Nikkor lens lineup. The camera would be a bit larger and heavier compared to a Sony A7rII but IMHO that is no disadvantage at all, referring to some earlier posts already in this thread (Jorgen I hear you!).
But again - I think the D810 will be pretty perfect for my photography use cases
Life is an ever changing journey
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Just this guy you know
For occasions like this, good zoom lenses would be much more convenient, and I consider the Sigma 24-35mm f/2.0 to take care of the wide end, but it's a beast, and heavier than my rather large 21 and 28mm lenses combined. So I choose the easy way out for now, and carry a heavier load. The wight includes the bag btw., which is 2.3 kilos and large enough to room the MacBook, chargers etc., which I will not carry when taking photos. Since I have so much luggage anyway, I'll also bring a smaller bag for when I only need four lenses and one body.
Having shot car races for many years, this setup actually feels rather lightweight
We cannot generalized as there too many variations on the subject. Some people prefer MF other that work sport and news practically attached to their Canons and Nikons
I did a comparison. The 80-200 AF-S at f/4, when I enlarge the image to the same magnification as the 300, shows more detail and is sharper than the 300 at f/4. When stopping down to f/5.6, the 300 is better by a great margin compared to anything. At f/8, they all start to lose sharpness and detail.
EVF, tiltable lcd, 4K and fast silent continuous AF on video mode would be enough to make me forget about Sony. Other than that I'm happy even with the D610.
What I've gotten from this thread is that there are A LOT of people out there with WAY more gear than they can actually use. We're definitely living on the age of gear lust...and the worst thing about it is that companies know it!
What I'd like to have in Nikon body is probably image stabilization but ONLY if it's not going to make it heavier and less styrdy..
Love the A series IQ - got an A7R myself-
dislike all the tiny buttons everywhre and the mish mashed logic of everything all the buttons and clunky menus and all the stuff that makes feel ...under invested in manual readings..and everything is so tiny ...meanie weenie tiny - I've got big hands..so I always reach for my 800 because it is just more comfortable. Time for an 810 I think - it is Spring in the air down here and soon there will be some sunshine...and besides I hate not being current.
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Interesting reading here:
I believe Nikon will first test the water with an EVF in a consumer model, to prove validity of the concept then move the EVF into the pro bodies, once the ice is broken and people get use to the idea. Pros won't accept the idea of an EVF right away. There is too much at stake.
I also believe the days of Nikon pro bodies, meaning integrated battery grip, are past with the exclusion of the high burst PJ/Sports camera. A "regular" body is more flexible for the masses, smaller, lighter, etc. Besides that give Nikon something else to sell - the battery grip for those who want one.
Something interesting is happening with Nikon.
All the new lenses they are launching are with electronic diaphragm, like Canon. (Previously only reserved to the PC-E lenses and super telephotos) Could be that they have a long term plan to create a fully electronic mirrorless system. less complications while adapting F mount lenses.
TBH, I would much rather see a mirrorless full frame system from them than another DSLR. The 800/ 810 is pretty much close to how much a DSLR can be refined. They just cannot upsell yet another DSLR to these customers (Like me) , because there really is no good reason to do so.
I am still on the fence about Sony as there is no reputable AF adapter for Nikkors, but a new system from Nikon themselves might do the trick .
Apparently something very interesting coming up in the near future and is not a D810 successor.
New Nikon patent for a Nikkor PC-E 19mm f/4 full frame mirrorless tilt-shift lens.
Read more on NikonRumors.com: http://nikonrumors.com/2015/12/01/ne...#ixzz3t8DSl4yz
Let's hope for the best. If there is the possibility of adapting previous F mount lenses plus other brands would be a winner.
Now, about a 19 mm mirrorless shift lens... MFT is telecentric by design, I believe? Nikon OTOH cannot go that route if compatibility with F mount is required. Will that have an impact on how the sensor light wells have to handle oblique light? I'm not sure.
Not sure if this rumor is true, but this could shake up the existing camera ecosystem overall .... not only Nikon.
Nikon buying Samsung mirrorless technology:
Hot rumor! Nikon bought Samsung NX mirrorless tech! - mirrorlessrumors
This could also mean new Samsung sensors in Nikon bodies, maybe not only mirrorless over time .... Nikon would then want to compete with Sony!
Combining the technologies from Nikon's own 1 Series with Samsung's sounds promising. One can only hope
i wish nikon will produce a mirorless camera soon...
but still some room for a 810s... especialy for the videographer !
4kvideo +a way to linked the body to a 4k screen while recording on a card.+ gps +wifi +enhance Dr
+ new pc-e lenses with a way to save the amount of movements used for auto corrections.
+ a touch screen +a manual white balance with a picker (as leaf db)
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I've read through this thread a couple of times now and it really highlights to me the problems camera manufacturers have when trying to develop a new camera.
Do we go mirrorless??
How many MP does the buying public want??
What is the new "must have" that everyone is raving about?? Will that still be relevant in 2 years when the camera actually sees the light of day??
I would hate the new Nikons to have an EVF. For me they are horrible, and all I can think about is the old warnings from my youth "don't sit too close to the TV or you will ruin your eyesight". Well this is a mini TV jammed right against my eye. I would not be surprised if in a few years we find out they are really bad for you, like iPhones and sleeping on railway tracks. Mirror slap is far less of an issue now than in the past, and you should always shoot in mirror lock up anyway for critical work. I have never had a time where I felt my walk around shots were ruined by mirror slap at all. Poor framing, bad light, shutter speed too slow / fast yes but never mirror slap.
I can see the new camera being a 50MP or so beast because Canon have one so Nikon must. Regardless of whether it is what anyone needs or not there will always be a market out there for the "biggest and best".
The last true photographers camera that Nikon produced for me was the D3x because it didn't have bloody video. Why can't they just produce a camera version that is dedicated to video and one for photography?? I love my Df because it doesn't have video either. Sure, putting video into cameras doesn't really concern me as I never use it, but I am paying for it regardless. I would not knock back a camera because it has video, but to me it's like putting a gun rack into every new car sold. Sure some people could find it handy but a lot of us would just not need it.
This gets back to my first point though, I hate video in cameras, others love the idea. Who do the manufacturers listen to??
I would be more excited to see Canon / Nikon / Sony take on MF and really shake that side up for a while. Yes it may mean a lot more R&D for new lenses etc but it would make it far more affordable for the average man.
Stop chasing gear, start chasing photos instead.
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I would love to see Nikon or Canon improve on their viewfinder so it can match the brightness of the Leica S viewfinder, which in my opinion is the best viewfinder I have used on any DSLR. The first time I put an S to my eye I was "wowed" by how crisp and bright the image was.
“You don’t take a photograph, you make it.” — Ansel Adams
This thread might seem like one discussion, but there's a few topics being discussed in parallel:
- Personal needs/wants
- Manufacturer product strategy
- Product features comparison
Nothing wrong with that, as long as we're all aware of what topic we are discussing.
For example I fully expect an upgrade to D810 with 4K video at some point in time - I personally couldn't care less about the feature but since I am vested in the Nikon ecosystem it's important for me that Nikon goes that route to defend/extend its market share against Sony and others.
And yes, I ruined my eyesight at the age of six sitting too close to the TV.
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This is really complex as to please most people out there, I love the Pentaprism during the day, I love the EVF during dark hours, I don't like mirror boxes, I like the smoothness of Nikon D800-810 files, I don't like the same in Sony but I like Sony color the best. The A7R is too small in my hands, The D800 is too heavy and cumbersome in my bag....
I don't get the love of EVF-only camera. What could be better than OVF + good LCD?
I might agree on lighter bodies but if you think about it, the D3x was just perfect! I personally miss it.
So, D4x + good (GREAT) LCD with shade would be a killer cam for me. Oh, and Nikon shouldn't forget about manual focus aiding system... for Otus lenses... cough
Same goes regarding new D900 body. Keep the size but make it lighter if it's possible.
Those who do not agree, go to ... GYM! )
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Here, in france as professionnal photographers we face more and more demands like : "and in the same time, i will need just a little video for my website..."
one year ago, my answer was... sorry i'm a photographer... but nowadays, business is so low, that you can't afford to loose a client !
And, we don't want to carry an other camera ! And it's just few frames, not a really a cinematographic stuff...
I don't think you will pay less for you "800P" photo camera only, because they will need to produce a 800v video at the same time... the research will be paid anyway, and producing two different camera and having to deal with two different stock, firmware update isn't coast effective !
So, in a way, the video in your camera is just free of charge for you !
And when you want to resell it, it's easier sometimes !
Maybe you should buy a digital back... they are photo only tools... but they aren't cheaper by the way !
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sometimes even A7R can becomes cumbersome...
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On topic now, I think that Nikon really bought some segments of Samsung technology. Samsung sold it and there where a sort of giant battle between brands in the background, Canon and Nikon desperately want to buy new tech and brevets. The rumor is so big and unbelievable that it is probably true.
I think I made the good choice to put a bet on Nikon
Also, since a year or more, fervent Nikon guys like Thom Hogan started to "bash" Nikon. From my point of view, Nikon do a pretty darn good job in the actual context. Ok, the entry level FX line was/is a fiasco... because it is entry level... The Df seems to be crippled BUT is a cool camera with remarkable sensor. The D4/D4s, as usual, is perfect. The D800e and D810 are more than we need. At a lens level we have more than what we need (maybe a very wide TS ?? but for a minority). The 58 f1.4 is awesome, the 300f4PF is awesome, the new 24-70 is very good, the f1.8 new line is perfect and we still have all the N lenses who work like charm. The future for Nikon is bright, I have no doubt about that.
I have the same feeling like you WRT battle for missorless in the background. Canon and Nikon desperately need this tech and while I would think that Canon has much more resources (money) to develop from scratch compared to Nikon, for both companies it is pretty late given the current evolution and state of the market.
So if this rumor turns out to be true, then it is for sure good to be in the Nikon camp. Great I am and although I love my D810, a Nikon FF mirrorless ala Leica SL would be a welcome product. hopefully sooner than later.
Only issue I currently have - I tested the Leica SL with my M lenses and I love this camera, so I will most definitely buy one as soon as funds allow. But then again, I always used 2 systems during most of my photography life and most periods these were Leica and Nikon - so maybe finally I am back again and would have finally landed - hope dies last.