V
Vivek
Guest
Smaller electronic player, Panasonic or Nikon, always is preferred over bigger electronic players!
Why go from D810 to G8? Nikon make a lot of compact APS-C cameras with that same characteristic superior IQ.
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React or go the Way of the DODO: DL line canceled
- Thread starter jduncan
- Start date
Why go from D810 to G8? Nikon make a lot of compact APS-C cameras with that same characteristic superior IQ.
Jorgen Udvang
Subscriber Member
The D5500/5600 is a great little camera at a very reasonable price that delivers excellent image quality. It even features a fully articulated LCD. Unfortunately, the viewfinder is crap, and AF very slow when using live view. Also, there's still no top quality WA prime available for the DX format. I've considered it many times, and almost bought one last year when the price went down to $650 for the D5500, but the tiny viewfinder always held me back.Smaller electronic player, Panasonic or Nikon, always is preferred over bigger electronic players!
Why go from D810 to G8? Nikon make a lot of compact APS-C cameras with that same characteristic superior IQ.
ptomsu
Workshop Member
IMHO Fuji marketing tops Sony marketing meanwhile by lightyears. Whenever they announce new products you already see long time before some X-photographers usually taking great images at exotic locations and as soon as the product is out there is already huge demand created and guess what - Fuji struggles to ship which I think is another strategy to even increase demand once again ...
Anyway, since many years I have now said that Nikon should bring a mirrorless - and if it is only to be able to compete. But unfortunately their marketing or strategic departments seem to be deaf. Meanwhile I think it is too late.
As you and many others I meanwhile switched back to mirrorless from Nikon FX (810, Df, D800E) several times and while a few years ago this was like waking up in a not very satisfying photographic territory, as mirrorless was simply not where. But meanwhile with my XT2 and the EM1.2 I do not miss anything, actually rather the other way around and I am even more pleased by IQ coming out of these systems (mind you, resolution is not everything ....).
If I would have had a decent competitive Nikon mirrorless offer, I probably would not have discovered this new non-Nikon world
Meanwhile so happy with the EM1.2 AND the XT2 that I hardly will come back to Nikon (well who knows) and I think there are many others feeling like me. I am even so satisfied with the EM1.2 that I might completely switch into m43 Olympus land Hi,
The funny side:
Taken from here:http://nikonrumors.com/2017/02/23/no-nikon-rumors-no-nikon-announcements-nnrnna.aspx/
I hope this does not imply that Nikon has lost access to high-end Sony sensors.
The company is so passive that they did not oppose the acquisition of Toshiba's image sensor business.
Sony did promise to spin separately it's camera business from the sensor one, so I hope they have access.
In any case, I hope that they are working on a fantastic machine for the anniversary.
Best regards,
The funny side:
Taken from here:http://nikonrumors.com/2017/02/23/no-nikon-rumors-no-nikon-announcements-nnrnna.aspx/
I hope this does not imply that Nikon has lost access to high-end Sony sensors.
The company is so passive that they did not oppose the acquisition of Toshiba's image sensor business.
Sony did promise to spin separately it's camera business from the sensor one, so I hope they have access.
In any case, I hope that they are working on a fantastic machine for the anniversary.
Best regards,
ptomsu
Workshop Member
Die Hoffnung stirbt zuletzt .....
V
Vivek
Guest
True!
Jorgen Udvang
Subscriber Member
This move by Sony I think was a giant blow to the whole camera industry. While Sony has shown that they can produce excellent sensors, they now control more or less the entire market and can decide who will get and who will not get their premium products. The fact that they also make camera bodies and are one of the most important competitors to their own customers doesn't make things any better of course. What the consequences of this will be, or indeed have been, we will probably never know, but it's naive to think that there are no consequences.
Shashin
Well-known member
Now we move on to conspiracy theories. :facesmack: You can get a Sony sensor by simply buying them from Sony. BTW, Sony (the camera division), like all the camera companies, are not doing well financially. As far as Nikon being the poor company compared to the others, when did Mitsubishi Heavy Industries become insolvent? It might be good to point out as the worn out "Sony is an electronics company" trope, Sony bought and is using employees from Konica Minolta. Beside, why would a subsidiary of a heavy industry company be better at making cameras?
It would be good to have some logical arguments in this thread.
The camera industry is becoming more and more a specialized market. You have working professionals needing high-end tools and amateurs wanting luxury goods. This is why the compact camera market is disappearing. Leica understands this and has built their brand around the luxury market. Fuji knows how to sell in niche markets. Camera companies are going to have to vie for a slice of a shrinking market. They need costumers that are willing to spend money on fewer products at higher prices. Everyone else has their phone.
It would be good to have some logical arguments in this thread.
The camera industry is becoming more and more a specialized market. You have working professionals needing high-end tools and amateurs wanting luxury goods. This is why the compact camera market is disappearing. Leica understands this and has built their brand around the luxury market. Fuji knows how to sell in niche markets. Camera companies are going to have to vie for a slice of a shrinking market. They need costumers that are willing to spend money on fewer products at higher prices. Everyone else has their phone.
Jorgen Udvang
Subscriber Member
Sony's market dominance is not a conspiracy theory, it's a fact. When a dominant player in the market buys a competitor, it's with the aim of becoming more dominant, usually to increase their profits and never with the interests of the customers in mind. Sony decides which sensors will be developed and brought to the market, not the market. Sony decides which customers will get priority, not the market. Sony decides what the price of a sensor should be, not the market. In addition to that come the conspiracy theories which may or may not be based on fact and knowledge.
In most capitalistic countries this is seen as having a negative impact on consumers and competitors, so much so that laws have been made to prevent it from happening. Unfortunately, those laws are not used very often anymore, and even when they are, ways are frequently fond around them.
V
Vivek
Guest
Fierce discussion: http://www.mirrorlessrumors.com/nikon-finally-admits-get-serious-mirrorless/
Btw, if Nikon decide to stick to DSLRs with optical view finders, they could end up monopolising that segment.
Btw, if Nikon decide to stick to DSLRs with optical view finders, they could end up monopolising that segment.
Jorgen Udvang
Subscriber Member
That would have to be over Canon's dead camera body
I don't see that happening anytime soon.
V
Vivek
Guest
Oh, good. They will not be comitting the sin of being a monopoly by staying with the DSLRs then. :thumbs:
It's an interesting observation.
Now DSLR has problems:
1. They can't, at the moment, be manufactured with precision by machine. Just see the list of errors (mechanical) on Nikon bodies.
2. As pixel density increases mechanical difficulties, including alignment become exacerbated.
3. Nikon could survive like that, but they will become, on time a truly little company.
4. What about super high-resolution video replacing a good part of photography?
A great strength of your idea is that it will legitimize the people that don't want to change. If they start to move to mirrorless and the product is less than stellar people will just buy a different mirrorless camera.
Let see what the future holds. It's a very interesting time in the camera business.
Best regards,
Hi,
Sony expressed before the acquisition of Toshiba sensors that they will restrict to internal use only, the best sensors that they have. After the acquisition and subsequent split of the sensor unit into its own division, my guess was that the restriction will be no more, but it was not clear. As expected the ambiguous information continues to come from Sony: Sony to no longer sell certain sensors to other manufacturers? | Nikon Rumors
As you can see, we do have a strong basis for the commentaries.
Notice that they removed the publication from IR.
Nikon has it's own sensor division, and Sony may be willing to be the fab. Sony is going for the kill, clearly, but they do have contractual and legal limitation.
I hope you are prepared to accept that this quote "It would be good to have some logical arguments in this thread." was not warranted and it was coming for your lack of knowledge about last year Sony executives' statements, statements that were reaffirmed a few days ago. Please notice that this does not imply that Nikon does not have access, just that is rational to wonder.
Best regards,
Jorgen Udvang
Subscriber Member
The mentioned Sony interview is actually very interesting, and although it has apparently been removed from IR's website, it's still available on Google cache:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...the-interchangeable+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
One thing they discuss which is of very high importance is a key difference between mirrorless and DSLR that I must admit that I haven't given much thought earlier:
Since mirrorless cameras, as opposed to most DSLR cameras, have AF and metering on the sensor, the camera can integrate those data into a computerised, "intelligent" process in a totally different way from what is possible with a DSLR with separate AF and metering sensors. This process will increasingly be a part of the sensor design, and if Sony really decides to keep the latest, most advanced sensors to themselves, we are not only talking about higher resolution, better DR or higher ISO, but better functionality for the camera as a whole. Canon, making their own sensor, is working on similar technology, but for Nikon, this can become a huge problem (and possibly already is) if they don't get access to he latest, most advanced sensors. This is actually quite worrying.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...the-interchangeable+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
One thing they discuss which is of very high importance is a key difference between mirrorless and DSLR that I must admit that I haven't given much thought earlier:
Since mirrorless cameras, as opposed to most DSLR cameras, have AF and metering on the sensor, the camera can integrate those data into a computerised, "intelligent" process in a totally different way from what is possible with a DSLR with separate AF and metering sensors. This process will increasingly be a part of the sensor design, and if Sony really decides to keep the latest, most advanced sensors to themselves, we are not only talking about higher resolution, better DR or higher ISO, but better functionality for the camera as a whole. Canon, making their own sensor, is working on similar technology, but for Nikon, this can become a huge problem (and possibly already is) if they don't get access to he latest, most advanced sensors. This is actually quite worrying.
Tim
Active member
You clearly have not looked into the subject. There are some things a mirrorless does better than a DSLR. Some things not.
One thing is clear though, that once the viewfinder image is indistingishable between a EVF and a Mirror DSLR and things like AF speed are the same the DSLR will slowly but surely diminish in models to a few only. IMO this will be like how military propeller planes are to jet aircraft today.
There is a reason the EVF will "take over", I might like it or dislike it but it going to happen.
Hi,
Maybe they are going to do something: http://www.nikon.com/news/2017/20170519_01_e.pdf
I hope that is a proper change of direction.
I know the people that are leaving did put a lot of effort.
Good look to them and best hope for the newcomers.
Best regards.
Maybe they are going to do something: http://www.nikon.com/news/2017/20170519_01_e.pdf
I hope that is a proper change of direction.
I know the people that are leaving did put a lot of effort.
Good look to them and best hope for the newcomers.
Best regards.
chrism
Well-known member
Provided an EVF can be made that is satisfactory, then mirrorless has all sorts of advantages over slapping mirrors. So far, no one has made a complete package that quite wins out over a conventional SLR, but it seems likely that somebody will sooner or later. The one thing about an EVF that impresses me is that when I use my OM-D, I can thumb the exposure compensation dial and see the effect in real time in the viewfinder.
But honestly, I've no dog in this race anymore. I use the Olympus only for wildlife in the garden and my D810 is very dusty and growled at me when I switched it on yesterday to see if it still works. As long as the F6 keeps going I'm happy.
C.
Hi,
It seems a new machine is comming. The action of anouncing the development is difucult to read. It could be that they need something to stop the bleading or it could be that are trying to generate momenta.
I am concerned after the D7500 debacle, but let see how it goes. The other issue is that they mentioned high speed. That is a bad sign in general, it basically means low dynamic range. But looking at the video that don't seem to be the case, at least not at high iso.
8K tell us that the resolution should be above 42Mpixels, so maybe Sony finaly let Nikon use the sensor (that mean that the new high resolution Sony should not be so far away). I hope it's a new sensor with a very good performance.
Link
https://www.dpreview.com/news/2954694213/nikon-announces-development-of-d850
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PRZ3dilTk4
Good look to the new team at Nikon.
It seems a new machine is comming. The action of anouncing the development is difucult to read. It could be that they need something to stop the bleading or it could be that are trying to generate momenta.
I am concerned after the D7500 debacle, but let see how it goes. The other issue is that they mentioned high speed. That is a bad sign in general, it basically means low dynamic range. But looking at the video that don't seem to be the case, at least not at high iso.
8K tell us that the resolution should be above 42Mpixels, so maybe Sony finaly let Nikon use the sensor (that mean that the new high resolution Sony should not be so far away). I hope it's a new sensor with a very good performance.
Link
https://www.dpreview.com/news/2954694213/nikon-announces-development-of-d850
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PRZ3dilTk4
Good look to the new team at Nikon.
iiiNelson
Well-known member
8k only requires ~35 megapixels. For example check out a Red Weapon Helium 8k Cinema Canera which was used to shoot Guardians of the Galaxy 2. It has about 35.4 megapixels or so.