Looks like they will be initially ~550 Euros ($699) and are expected ~April.
Looks like they will be initially ~550 Euros ($699) and are expected ~April.
Serious question: Why would I want one of these?
I really want to understand what might be appealing about this camera, because I just don't see it.
You might want to send that to Samsung?
Just another "system" camera with slow CDAF focus (so if you are in for AF, tough luck) and liveview.
It is the liveview/EVF that appeals to me. I may get one to convert it to use my Olympus Pen F lenses.
If someone comes up with even a larger frame liveview/EVF cam, I will look into those as well.
So is it that you want the largest sensor possible without having the bulk of a camera with an optical viewfinder? Or is there something else special about this particular camera that I'm missing?
I feel pretty much the same way. I'd prefer an APS-C or larger sensor but, other than that, the G1 is very close to my ideal camera.
Jonathon already answered this. I will buy NX10, G2,.. no M9 for me.
Perhaps an M15?
Why would want to go back a hundred years?
Can't even use a regular polarizer on M9 without extra doodahs or the overpriced Leica swing out polarizer.
Last edited by Vivek; 18th March 2010 at 06:43.
I was not serious when I mentioned the M9 (that's why I used the ""), I did not imagine for one second it would be what you wanted.
Serious or not, it is the M15 I am aiming for.
Just bought my GH1, body only, for around $700. From what I can gather, the Panasonic is a superior camera in most ways, particularly if video is taken into the consideration.
I don't care what gear I have.
Things I sell: http://www.shutterstock.com/sets/413...html?rid=61105
The GH1 is better for video, but for stills I think the NX10 is better. I like it's form factor much better and the image quality seems better (still evaluating though). The NX10 with the kit zoom lens was only $699. I want the 30mm prime but it doesn't seem to be available in the U.S. yet.
Only had a half day of shooting before the rain moved in. The forecast for this week is bad, but I'm hoping to get a few shots this week. Note that these are all in-camera JPEGs. No Mac RAW converter yet.
I love this one: http://www.flickr.com/photos/bcaslis...7623714203210/
Amazing blacks and whites!
. . . . . but as Vivek says, bring on a small full frame camera with liveview and an EVF .
Incidentally - your avatar is killing me, I just can't work out what it is (aside from the tongue) please tell me!
all the best
Just this guy you know
But the biggest benefit to me is the form factor. It just feels so much better to hold then the G1 or E-P1 or GF1 at least to me. And the viewfinder is not as bad as some descriptions I've seen. It might be a little smaller and slightly less pixels than the G1/GH1 viewfinder, but I find the colors and contrast levels better. The AMOLED screen on the back is to die for. Far better than any screen I've seen on a camera including my Nikon.
It's been a long, long, long time since I posted on these forums.........So, I thought I'd post a couple of my first images form my NX10 and 30mm (I have the 18-55, it came as part of a kit, but have not used it yet).
For myself, after becoming disabled and unable to carry a DSLR kit, I've been searching for a viable camera to keep in my pocket. Out of all the cams I've purchased or trialed, this one is almost perfect.
Excuse my quick processing (or rather, my lack of skills/patience).
Does the camera operate and show any exposure without any lens mounted?
*The manual does not give any clear indications as far as I have parsed through it.
I'm sure it is but a small matter to the people who make adaptors though, not that I'm thinking of using any myself, especially if Samsung keep developing primes like the 30mm.
Thanks a bunch for your speedy reply!
I think the little metal button inside the mount (bottom right) gets depressed when a lens is mounted (or the body cap) and that would allow the cam to think the lens is mounted.
The issue about not being able to use the magnifier function (viewfinder or LED screen) when a non Samsung lens is mounted is still not known though.
Panasonic G1 plus 14-45mm kit zoom: AUD 1299 (EUR 887 / USD 1195)
Panasonic GF1 plus 20mm pancake: AUD 1499 (EUR 1024 / USD 1379)
Olympus E-P1 plus 14-42 kit zoom: AUD 1399 (EUR 955 / USD 1287)
Samsung NX10 plus 18-55mm kit zoom: AUD 850 (EUR 580 / USD 782)
Samsung NX10 plus 30mm pancake: AUD 900 (EUR 615 / USD 828)
The Novoflex NX10 adapters are supposed to ship by the end of April but, even though their m4/3 adapters are of much higher quality than the Chinese equivalents, I'm reluctant to pay a premium price just to do a trial run. So I think I'll wait until I can buy a Chinese Minolta MC/MD, Konica AR, or Yashica C/Y adapter then take it a store and try the NX10 with one or more of my legacy lenses.
Like you, Vivek, I'm very interested in this camera. But it has to properly support legacy lenses. If it doesn't, I'll stick with the G1.
Last edited by Jonathon Delacour; 5th April 2010 at 01:58.
The Pana Australia prices are ridiculous!
I am going to check out the NX10 in a few minutes (nearby shop). Looks like I will have to import the kit with the 30/2 from HK though.
Here, the advertised price is 750 Euros for that (650Euros with the kitzzoomy).
No sign of the flashes (though some UK sites list them). The battery looks simple and there are plenty of 3rd party options for that.
I will get RJ adapters for this cam (or the US adapters- for m4/3rds- which sell on eBay that look like clones of Novoflex) .
I am not going to pay the price of a lens for an adapter (ie. Novoflex). I really wonder how many adapters Novoflex really sell.
With liveview, precise registry is not needed.
Very positive review in Amateur Photographer magazine. No comparison with m 4/3 yet.
I will wait for a reliable comparison before I make the plunge. Also, not currently in stock at B&H.
The shop with the cam was closed today.
Side by side with the G1:
The sensor is the same as the Pentax K7 /Samsung GX-20. A test in a french mag sum up saying that "for a first camera fully produced by Samsung, it is very promising".
compact & light
very good ergonomics
full set of functionalities
very good menus
NR too strong
I believe it is the way to go if we want compact cameras, the main objection being the viewfinder, but it is a matter of few years before the EV improve and become as good if not better than the traditional mirror.
Wait until Canon or Sony come out with one of these it will be a step further than what is on the market now.
I expect Canon to brew something out.
I have one Novoflex adapter (Minolta MC/MD) which I bought when I encountered problems with the only other adapter I had: an RJ Minolta MC/MD adapter. I didn't realize that the problem was the lens mount, not the adapter. The quality of the Novoflex adapter is exceptionally good but, like you, I don't think it's a sensible way to spend one's money.
Your point about live view and accurate register is spot-on. I'm not a landscape shooter so infinity focus is largely irrelevant to me.
However, I'm concerned about focusing legacy lenses on the NX10, given that DPreview's NX10 preview says:The NX10 offers single and continuous AF as well as fully manual focus (this is either engaged using the lens switch or - if there isn't one - the Function menu). In manual focus mode turning the focus dial magnifies the center of the frame, but not by enough - and not with enough resolution - to make it particularly useful.This seems to imply that the AF lens in MF mode communicates with the camera to activate the magnification. So I'm wondering how turning the focusing ring on a legacy lens will get the camera to show the magnified view. Perhaps that's a limitation that can be overcome with a firmware update but the current implementation doesn't sound anywhere near as quick and easy as it is with the various Panasonic models.
Jonathon, I would not worry about what that "review" site says. If they copy the specs given by the manufacturer, faithfully, and make a few pages of the "review", it makes it a handy reference. No more.
The AF lens activating the magnification is the same as in Pana/Oly. It remains to be seen if the firmware updates by NX10 has done anything to make it better.
Only when real manual focus lenses are used we will know for sure what happens.
So, Pana must have sold half a dozen cameras in Australia at these prices?
OK, I will find out if this would be of any use with manual focus lenses soon.
Can't wait to try out my pen F lenses....
Jonathon, I will know next week.
Congrats on the 38/3.5 macro!
Anybody hoping to capitalize on the NX10's mirrorless design (and consequent short sensor-to-mount distance), to use non NX-mount lenses via adapters will also be disappointed because you can't manually engage magnified live view so can't realistically manually focus lenses.But your opinion carries far more weight than theirs.
Oh, wait, you did describe it as "one of my all time favorites for the m4/3rds".
Jonathon, That outfit continues to amaze me. Why would they choose a "normal" 50/1.4 lens to fit on the NX10 and a superb 50/2 Macro on an m4/3rds while making comparison shots at f/8? Couldn't they have used kit lenses? I went through that, especially the image quality part where they are saying that the camera does not show any details compared to Nikon and Canon DSLRs. Intriguing and would love to check that out first. If it is that horrible, I will have to ditch Samsung.
I do get the impression that the 30/2 is a fine lens (too bad the review outfit did not comment or compare it with the "flareless" Pana 20/1.7).
BTW, when I use manual focus lenses from 25mm to 45mm FL on the G1, I very rarely use the zoom feature. If the picture mode (and hence the EVF) is set with the highest contrast settings and in a B&W mode, it is fairly easy to focus. Once focus is achieved, the focused area start to shimmer and with color fringes.
I am sure there will be firmware updates to get the zoom feature. Even the Olympus E-410 has a fine 7X and 10X zoom feature!
Oh, the pen F 38/3.5 is beyond words. If you already do not have, you should plan on getting the extension ring set so that you can go to 1:1 (and a bit beyond).
Currently, there is one listing on ebay for a T-mount adapter ($12.99) for the Samsung NX10. Good source for a NX mount flange.
My apologies for a truncated thought. I meant to point out that there were no "flare" comparisons there.
All of the evidence I've seen suggests that Samsung's 30/2 pancake lens is indeed very good.
Unlike you, I almost always use the zoom feature for lenses from 20mm to 45mm but not so much for 55mm and above. So a proper implementation of the zoom feature for MF lenses is a must-have feature for me. If they don't fix it with a firmware update, I'll skip the NX10 and wait to see what Canikony offer in mirrorless cams.
I was able to pick up the Pen F extension ring at an attractive price some months ago. But, despite offering what I thought were quite high bids, I've twice missed out on getting the reversing ring set.
This USD 12.99 adapter is the only one I could find on eBay, but the description says "T Mount T-Mount Adapter Panasonic G1 GH1 Samsung NX10" and the label on the packaging says "T-Mount f/Olympus DSLR 4/3". So it's suitable for neither m4/3 cameras nor the NX10. Further on down the page it says: "For use with 500mm , 800mm , 420-800mm, 650-1300mm and telescopes." Or did you find a different one?
That is the adapter (I have ordered one after checking with them). I asked the seller explicitly for the one for Samsung NX10.
I do not have much hope that CaNiko will do anything on the mirrorless front soon. Even if they do, Nike's is likely to be unusable for non propriety lenses.
Sony holds some promise and I will jump at anything they may offer with an EXMOR-R sensor. Anything else is going to be as good as the NX. This also is at least another 6 months away..
I am hoping that Samsung will come with a firmware to make the cam useful.
My primary interest in the NX10 is to use T/S lenses. I find the m4/3rds pretty much useless for this purpose due to the smaller sensor. I have had success using T/S lenses on Nikon's APS-C sensored cams.
While using T/S lenses (the way I use them and for the applications I intend to use), the zoom function just gets in the way.
If anyone offers a cam with even larger sensor, I am all for it. Pre-production models would be greatly appreciated as well.
Last edited by Vivek; 8th April 2010 at 21:51.
My impression this far is that the NX10 would be so much better with some simple firmware tweaks. (And so can the Panasonic G1.)
I'm not that interested in the NX10. I'm convinced that LIVE cameras will dominate the market in some years. But, for me the difference i sensor size is important and 60% larger area doesn't cut it, I can just as well stick to µ4/3. Some day somebody will release a FF LIVE camera and that will be the next important step for me.
There is a sample shot (shooting into the Sun, horribly exposed) showing flare from the NX 30/2 while the Pana 20/1.7, magically, was "devoid" of any flares.
It is a pity that Samsung sells hood for this lens separately.
But..it is better than Pana and Oly who do not make any hoods for their primes.
After reading the dpreview the Nx10 is disappointing on three fronts:
-viewfinder is small. G1 still rules. Tried using a GF1 with EVF and it was far too small to be of use with manual focus lenses, at least for me. Viewfinder size is at or near the top of the list in my book, whether it is film or digital.
-high iso didn't seem to be appreciably better despite the larger sensor. Seeing as that is the entire point of a larger sensor, this to me is a fail.
-no manual focus option for adapted lenses. So there goes the advantage of a smaller crop factor. Luckily this could be a pending firmware fix.
The "cropped" NX10 sensor is 15.5% wider and taller than the G1's. The area is 33.5% larger than that of the G1. I wouldn't describe that as small.
Although that way of doing the calculation does favor the G1, I think it's the fairest and most logical. But if you crop the G1's sensor to match the NX10's aspect ratio, the NX10's area is 69% larger than the G1's.
I guess I was thinking about the pixel density and crops. When I was looking at the review of the NX10 and the RAW comparison with the GF1 the 100% crops looked pretty close
"Like the Canon on the previous page, the Panasonic has a very light anti-aliasing filter (as hinted at by the moiré that appeared in the JPEG comparison of this scene). This is likely to be the reason that the Panasonic is also slightly out-resolving the Samsung. This isn't a huge upset though, despite the apparent disparity in pixel counts. If you take a look at the number of vertical pixels they're using to render this scene, you'll see that both are using around 3000 - the Samsung's extra two megapixels are being used to describe the left and right edges that the Panasonic's 4:3 aspect ratio crops off.
In real-world situations, this distinction would only be visible in fine details in the very largest prints."
Admittedly, if one prefers a 4:3 aspect ratio, then this is all somewhat academic. But for someone who prefers the traditional 35mm 3:2 aspect ratio, the NX10's sensor does provide significantly more usable pixels.
As for the statement that the Panasonic GF1's very light anti-aliasing filter is "likely to be the reason that the Panasonic is also slightly out-resolving the Samsung", surely a contributing factor is that they used an Olympus 50 mm F2 Macro lens* at f/6.3 on the GF1 and a Pentax FA 50mm F1.4** lens at f/8 on the NX10. Talk about comparing apples to oranges. Was their true goal to show the NX10 in the worst possible light?
* "We've long praised the Olympus 50mm macro in our camera reviews as one of the sharpest lenses we've ever used, and true to form it turns in an exceptional performance in our studio tests... The lens is extremely sharp across the frame even wide open, and easily outresolves the L10's 10Mp sensor from F3.3-F7.1, suggesting plenty in reserve for future higher resolution models."
** "The [Pentax FA 50mm F1.4] lens is distinctly soft wide open, and the checkerboard crops reveal extremely low contrast with blacks rendered as blue-grey. Sharpness improves rapidly on stopping down; it's very good at F2, and excellent right across the frame in the lens's sweet spot (around F2.8-5.6) even on the K20D's 14Mp sensor."