Panny G1 - the first m4/3 has arrived

[Jorgen Udvang]

No one else would prefer a fast 50mm equivelent pancake? Like f1.4? 40mm is a neither normal nor wide for all that it will be f1.7.

The focal length is obviously a matter of taste, and hopefully there will be some primes from Olympus as well, but for a pancake, f/1.7 is actually very fast. Of pancakes currently in production, I can't remember any lens faster than f/2.0, the Voigtländer 40mm in F and K mounts.

 

[Joan]

I actually prefer 40mm because it's a little easier to use indoors in tight quarters, but certainly would be happy with a 50mm f1.4. I'm also really enthused about the 7-14mm f4. Hope that won't be ridiculously expensive.

It'll be interesting to see how Olympus decides to incorporate mFT into their system. If they defy convention and go for more of a rangefinder-ish camera, I may wait for that. They better hurry up and show something!

 

[Ben Rubinstein]

Doubt there will be that much longer to wait, photokina this year is certainly one of the most innovative in years from MF to M4/3 and everything in between.

 

[nei1]

I hope we at least get a scale model E3,waterproof,tough and a few f1.anything primes from olympus,if they could get rid of the prism bump,perfect.Somebody is going to make a high quality body for this format,,I dont think its panasonic but it could be Olympus.all the best
,Neil.

 

[Terry]

Best shots so far to give a sense of size

http://flickr.com/photos/audioblog/sets/72157607245255351/

And unless she has giant hands this size lens for a zoom is pretty impressive...

http://flickr.com/photos/audioblog/2850461008/in/set-72157607245255351/


Best discussion of the actual product from someone who has used it a bit....
Andy Westlake reviews lenses for DPReview... his posts on this thread are interesting...

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1000&message=29306625

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

Best discussion of the actual product from someone who has used it a bit....
Andy Westlake reviews lenses for DPReview... his posts on this thread are interesting...

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1000&message=29306625

His posts are particularly interesting considering the fact that dpreview has traditionally been rather skeptical towards earlier 4/3 products.

 

[Ben Rubinstein]

Still far too big, until it's pocketable I might as well carry an SLR where I won't need to compromise on the 4/3 chips quality. Here's to hoping that Olympus won't build a camera specifically based on what pany think the Japanese market prefer.

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

I did some weight calculations. Two bodies with batteries plus the two available zooms weigh in at 1,445g. Add to that the announced 7-14 at probably another 400g, the pancake at 200g and a macro of probably around 300g, and we have a complete travel setup, two cameras, three zooms covering 14-400mm (35mm eqv.), a fast normal and a macro under 2,500g.

Last time I travelled with two bodies (S3 and D200) and similar reach, my camera bag was 12 kilograms plus tripod. The lenses I brought were faster, but at the end of the third day under a baking sun and 35 degrees Celsius, I would have changed to f/11 lenses if that meant I could have gotten rid of 10 kilos.

 

[Ben Rubinstein]

Jorgen,

A Canon 5D, 17-40L, 50mm Macro, 70-200 f4L IS, 2X Extender gives 17-400mm on FF for 2590g. The image quality will trounce this little pany.

 

[Terry]

Jorgen,

A Canon 5D, 17-40L, 50mm Macro, 70-200 f4L IS, 2X Extender gives 17-400mm on FF for 2590g. The image quality will trounce this little pany.

Not to nitpick but:

a)Jorgen had 2 bodies in his list
b)the filter size on the 17-40 is 77mm vs. 52mm on the G1 kit lens (see my link to the picture in my post above) that is a huge bulk difference
b)the 5D setup is more than $4000 or about quadruple the cost of the G1
c)and I would bet for 90% of what people shoot you won't have quadruple the IQ

If the G1 meets with some success, there will be different body styles and perhaps one with catch your eye. I for one still commend Panny for walking down this road and looking to other divisions (like the video group) for real advancements in EVF and AF technology.

 

[Martin S]

The choice of 20 mm Pancake lens is a lttle gutsy. It is really a great focal length for indoor, and street use. The original Rollei 35 had a 40 mm lens, and I found it to be very useful for a small, truely pocketable camera.

I must comment on Jorgen's comment on weight, and heat.

I was in Mali two years ago, and I was using a Canon 20D with a 24-105 mm L lens. We had just climbed up 2 flights of stairs (rapidly- for me) in temperatures of 100 to 110 degrees F in Djenne across from the famous mud mosque after moving through the crowded Monday market. I became light headed, and was very close to heat stroke. My friends quickly cooled me off with water (on my head). After this experience, I have been on the lookout for a small, light, good quality camera which would give high quality images. I have looked at numerous high end P+S cameras and have not been impressed. Perhaps this m 4/3 concept will be what I am looking for.

I have reservations about the contrast sensitivity AF working accurately, and fast enough (shutter lag), and the quality, and responsiveness of the EVF.

I will look carefully at this system, realizing that the body is only version 1.0, and may be joined by other, more advanced, and smaller bodies, and higher speced lenses.

Martin

 

[Joan]

Terry,
Agree with your comments 100%.

And neither of these gentleman's calculations are correct :ROTFL:
Jorgen, you overestimated the weight of two G1's w/ batteries and the two zooms. It's only 1295 grams!! Grand total with the 7-14mm, pancake and macro = 2195g.

Ben, ONE 5D with the lenses and extender you mentioned = 3360 grams. TWO bodies w/ batteries brings it up to 4255g.

Let's get real here ... obviously the Panny kit will be much lighter and smaller.
You can argue about IQ all day long. I'd be willing to bet the Panny's will be good enough for 99% of what most people need.

 

[Ben Rubinstein]

I didn't realise that Jorgen had written 2 bodies, my mistake. Still know which option I would take! It's just not enough of a difference yet. Please give us a pocketable camera Oly!

 

[Joan]

Just pulling your leg a bit, Ben. I can't afford the 5D option, even if I could carry it. So, for me, the G1 is lookin' good. If Oly comes up with an even smaller, pocketable option, I will be looking seriously at that, too!

Edit:

PS, I really think the slams against 4/3 IQ are overstated by a long shot. There's more to IQ than just high ISO noise. The Oly and Pana 4/3 cameras are capable of some breathtaking pictures. It's the person behind the camera that makes whatever kit they have (and can afford) sing.

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

Not to nitpick but:

a)Jorgen had 2 bodies in his list
b)the filter size on the 17-40 is 77mm vs. 52mm on the G1 kit lens (see my link to the picture in my post above) that is a huge bulk difference
b)the 5D setup is more than $4000 or about quadruple the cost of the G1
c)and I would bet for 90% of what people shoot you won't have quadruple the IQ

d) and it doesn't include a macro
e) and it doesn't include a fast prime
f) and the 70-200 with a 2x extender becomes an f/8 lens. What about AF performance, viewfinder brightness and corner sharpness?
g) and in spite of the 70-200 f/4's relative compactness, it's still a big lens on a big camera

The Panasonic alternative gives an amazing degree of flexibility. I will be able to leave the bulk of the gear at the hotel, and carry just one body with one lens, weighing around 600g, or I can take it all.

I'm sure there will be a 70-300 at some point as well, since it's a popular zoom range. Then I will be able to do BIF and airshows as well, although I will look slightly silly next to a guy with a 5D and a 600mm f/5.6

The M4/3 will never be my only system, but for certain purposes, it will be very, very nice

Oh, and I can't wait to try my Nikkor 500mm f/8 reflex on this thing

 

[Ben Rubinstein]

I did mention the 50mm macro in my list Jorgen but just for you and add about $70 for the 50mm 1.8!

I could have mentioned the 70-300 IS instead if you want a lighter option! I was just messing about with your figures, it's the concept I partially disagree with.

Thing is that for travel and street you want a camera that really can do anything you will want when you don't have access to your gear cupboard back home. As such high ISO really is important as well as fast lenses and enough resolution to crop. If you want landscape or studio then high ISO isn't a big deal, if you want street and indoors which are often very relevant to travel photography then you really do want a clean iso 800 and a fast lens because it can make the difference between getting the photo or not getting it period as you don't get the chance to go back and do it again!

I tested a E420 out a while back and the quality wasn't there at iso 800, neither was the tonality pleasing to me. As such it didn't qualify as a street camera. My 5D is big but with a 50mm 1.4 gives me incredible quality, fast AF and useable ISO up to 1600 and can be pushed further. On a shoulder strap it really isn't that big a deal. What I want is a pocket camera with better IQ than the current range for when I need a carry anywhere camera. If I want a serious setup for street I'm afraid the 4/3 chip doesn't cut it as yet because it just doesn't have the vesatility needed to shoot in anything but good light.

This picture was shot in a dark alleyway, f2 @ iso 800 some time after sunset, it makes an incredible 18X12" or even larger. Couldn't have done it with a slow lens (there is a tiny bit of subject movement anyway) or lesser iso. The picture below that was shot on a bus leaving Jerusalem using a 7 megapixel p&s. The image quality at iso 800 is truly awful, can't print it bigger than native, there just isn't any detail. For the first photo genre I still need a serious camera, for the 2nd, when I don't have a serious camera on me, I could do with something that would give me enlargeable quality and 4/3 would do - but in a pocket sized solution. If I wouldn't have the 5D on my shoulder than its unlikely that I would have any other camera there, however dimunative. In a little p&s pouch on my belt is an entirely different concept.

​

 

[asabet]

Jorgen,

A Canon 5D, 17-40L, 50mm Macro, 70-200 f4L IS, 2X Extender gives 17-400mm on FF for 2590g. The image quality will trounce this little pany.

Until I found a sharp copy of the 100-400L, I used a 70-200/4 non-IS with a 2x converter on the 5D. It had decent IQ, and I know the IS version is sharper. However, as you know, an f/4 lens with a 2x TC will not AF on a 5D unless one tapes the pins or uses a TC that doesn't pass along the aperture info. Assuming one does this, the AF is still miserable. I suspect it would be as miserable with the IS version since the non IS version without the TC has one of the fastest, most sure AF I've ever noted on a zoom. Thus, I think one might miss more shots relying on 5D focus with an effectively f/8 lens than one would miss with the little pany and it's 200mm (400mm FOV) f/5.6 zoom.

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

Ben,
Sorry, I didn't see that you included the 50 Macro, but that lens is almost 1.5 stops slower than the Panasonic pancake, and almost 0.5 stops slower than the Zuiko 50mm f/2.0 macro, partly killing off some of the high ISO advantage of the 5D.

There are things to be said for both options, and a fast lens and high ISO is often useful. The fast lens is already on the Panasonic roadmap, while we have to see what the high ISO is like. It will probably not be as nice as on a 5D or a D700, but on the other hand, I regularly sell images taken with my old E-1 at ISO 800. As for resolution, 12MP mostly does it for me, and the distance up to the 5D isn't very long for any practical use. What the new 5D will bring, remains to be seen.

Here's an example taken with the E-1 at ISO 800, notorious for grainy high ISO, hand-held at 11mm and 1/13s, which was only possible because of the low level of in-camera vibrations, partly due to the small mirror/shutter. The M4/3 cameras obviously have no problems with vibrations, since they have neither mirror nor shutter:

There are other sides to this that are highly individual. Mostly, when I'm out and about, I want a camera that looks small and "amateurish". It looks less pretentious, and it's easier to approach people without giving them the feeling that they will end up on the front-page of Time Magazine. The articulated LCD (and no shutter sound) also makes it possible to take photos from difficult angles and/or without being noticed.

A few fast primes from Olympus will be important to make this system sing, and I'm quite sure they will deliver. A macro is obvious, and a fast 100mm would be nice. Maybe the 100mm f/2.0 macro that has long been indicated on the Zuiko roadmap will materialise in M4/3 form. That would be nice

 

[nei1]

It would be a nice option to have a B&W viewfinder with brightness and contrast options.With the ability to memorise a few linked to camera settings you would be looking more directly at the desired result.

 

[Terry]

It would be a nice option to have a B&W viewfinder with brightness and contrast options.With the ability to memorise a few linked to camera settings you would be looking more directly at the desired result.

Generally you can do this by setting the camera to shoot Raw + jpeg and setting your jpegs to your desired contrast etc. You still get a color RAW to work with later and you have the jpeg the way you saw it.