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Thread: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

  1. #601
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    What are you guys doing for metering and WB? Just letting the matrix metering do its stuff or adding exposure compensation where necessary and ETTR? WB - auto or selecting Sunlight or whatever?

    How many changes are you making in SPP? Very few and other adjustments in LR?

    Just wondering really how much PP is being done on the wonderful shots here in general?

    Or, put it another way: what are the best camera settings and minimal tweaks required in SPP to render a good starting point (or even finishing point!) for minor adjustments in LR?

    Thanks and please keep the images coming!

    Lee

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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    Another pano today, this time using the Nodal Ninja 3 MkII head, which has virtually eliminated stitching errors

    https://dl.dropbox.com/u/9806585/St_...Pano_Final.jpg

    File size is 10,731 x 6422.

    The compressed file is around 24mb, but uncompressed, around 170mb

    Quite difficult to ensure the alignement is correct because the interior columns are a bit skew in real life, but I think this is pretty accurate.
    Quentin Bargate
    Co-Founder of Ajuve, Director of Bargate Murray, Law Firm of the Year 2012 - 2016, Photographer
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  3. #603
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    Quote Originally Posted by scho View Post
    Beautiful image Louis with a fantastic sky and that great Foveon detail. A bit less sharpening and a little shadow fill light in SPP would be my only suggestions for improvement.
    Thanks, Carl.

    I'm still inhibited about turning down the sharpening in the camera. I've never owned a digital camera before which required reduction in-camera but I am beginning to think this is required.

    LouisB

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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    Honestly, I can't believe myself. I succumbed. Now, it was hard as they are scarce in the UK at the moment but yesterday I noticed Wex had one (they didn't on Weds and Thurs and they are out of stock again today) and they had a next-day (Saturday) delivery option. Even more remarkable, the sun was shining.

    First impressions? Remarkably easy to handle. Having to compose on LCD wasn't as bad as I expected - lucky the AF is good most of the time!

    Compared to my X-Pro 1? They are *different* and I am so glad about that. I think I have a lot to learn with Merrill and the X-Pro for sure still is a great camera. I am not sure if I can show the 'detail' that others can yet but I am certainly seeing it in some of the shots. Just two from today, and not necessarily ones with major detail!





    Lee
    Last edited by Sapphie; 6th October 2012 at 13:09.
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    For myself I put it on Aperture mode and use the matrix metering. This seems to overexpose so often dial back a bit.

    WB and colour in SPP give me the most trouble, so I have gone back to something I stopped a long time ago with other cameras i can directly import into Lightroom or ACR - I carry a Colour Passport Checker with me which I photograph from time to time as the light changes. I can then set a WB preset in SPP and apply it to various images in a batch process. I process out to 16 bit tiffs and then correct properly in LR4.

    I try and do as little as possible in SPP. The biggest problem I have is clipping highlights. There is a surprising amount of headroom in the X3F to bring them back by reducing the exposure slider. There is a highlight slider but I can't see that it does anything useful at all.

    What is odd - and I would welcome anyone else's experience here - is that I find I can reduce the exposure a little bit so that the highlights still show as clipped, but if I then increase the fill light not only do the shadows come up but the highlight clipping stops.

    I think the best way to use is to get things as close to neutral and possible and then finish off elsewhere ( I use Lightroom). With 16 bit tiffs there is still a considerable amount of leeway to play with in LR or PS. Undoubtedly the best thing is to try and identify similarly exposed photos, create a preset in SPP and batch export them. Going through individual pictures, adjusting them in SPP - even just tweaking WB and exposure - and then exporting them individually is a pain.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sapphie View Post
    What are you guys doing for metering and WB? Just letting the matrix metering do its stuff or adding exposure compensation where necessary and ETTR? WB - auto or selecting Sunlight or whatever?

    How many changes are you making in SPP? Very few and other adjustments in LR?

    Just wondering really how much PP is being done on the wonderful shots here in general?

    Or, put it another way: what are the best camera settings and minimal tweaks required in SPP to render a good starting point (or even finishing point!) for minor adjustments in LR?

    Thanks and please keep the images coming!

    Lee

  6. #606
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    Ok, as 'Columbo' would say "there's just one more thing ..."



    some sort of guided walk party were disturbing the sheep ...

    Lee
    Last edited by Sapphie; 6th October 2012 at 13:27.
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  7. #607
    Senior Member biglouis's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    Lee

    That is a cracking shot - the one with the sheep. I bet if you dial down the exposure in SPP and up the fill light you will recover more of the sky.

    LouisB

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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    Thanks Louis. I will give that a try but actually, quite remarkable, I have since thought, is that this was shot into the sun with no lens hood as yet. I didn't really expect to have much of a shot from it at all ... so I don't think much is to be recovered and I did reduce highlights in LR but amazing how 'flare free' the lens is.

    Lee

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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    Although ... I tried your suggestion (reduced exposure by about a stop and increased fill light to 0.5, in SPP) and, lo:



    with a larger version on Flickr here:

    http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8171/8...5bd398ec_k.jpg

    Thanks for the tip!

    Lee
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  10. #610
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    Quote Originally Posted by Sapphie View Post
    Honestly, I can't believe myself. I succumbed. Now, it was hard as they are scarce in the UK at the moment but yesterday I noticed Wex had one (they didn't on Weds and Thurs and they are out of stock again today) and they had a next-day (Saturday) delivery option. Even more remarkable, the sun was shining.

    First impressions? Remarkably easy to handle. Having to compose on LCD wasn't as bad as I expected - lucky the AF is good most of the time!

    Compared to my X-Pro 1? They are *different* and I am so glad about that. I think I have a lot to learn with Merrill and the X-Pro for sure still is a great camera. I am not sure if I can show the 'detail' that others can yet but I am certainly seeing it in some of the shots. Just two from today, and not necessarily ones with major detail!


    Lee
    Congratulations Lee and I'm sure that you won't have any regrets. Your first shots are looking quite nice.
    Carl
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    Quote Originally Posted by biglouis View Post
    Thanks, Carl.

    I'm still inhibited about turning down the sharpening in the camera. I've never owned a digital camera before which required reduction in-camera but I am beginning to think this is required.

    LouisB
    Louis,

    If you are shooting only raw I don't think it matters what you set in-camera. I just make adjustments as required in SPP when processing raws. Normally I'm using a sharpness setting of 0 to -1.
    Carl
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  12. #612
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    Quote Originally Posted by Sapphie View Post
    Although ... I tried your suggestion (reduced exposure by about a stop and increased fill light to 0.5, in SPP) and, lo:



    with a larger version on Flickr here:

    http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8171/8...5bd398ec_k.jpg

    Thanks for the tip!

    Lee
    Sapphie - I'm glad it worked.

    Prooves that it is a general feature of the camera.

    Does anyone else think this camera has excellent highlight recovery capabilities? On all my other digital cameras I have never been able to really do this?

    LouisB

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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    Thanks Carl. This is just day one. Fiddling with the shots now is interesting. Others are benefitting from reducing exposure in SPP, even when they look Ok to start with. The Monochrome 'WB' setting is interesting. This one also had exposure reduced and fill light increased:



    and larger: http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8178/8...83b13a36_k.jpg

    It reminds me of how some of my medium format FP4 shots used to look ...

    P.S. Sharpness could possibly be turned down a notch!

    Lee
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    Quote Originally Posted by biglouis View Post
    Sapphie - I'm glad it worked.

    Prooves that it is a general feature of the camera.

    Does anyone else think this camera has excellent highlight recovery capabilities? On all my other digital cameras I have never been able to really do this?

    LouisB
    Louis,

    Yes, I agree and I had to start changing my shooting habits (as first recommended by Quentin) by exposing for shadows and then recovering highlights. Usually works well.
    Carl
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    I went back to Ithaca Falls today with both the DP1M and DP2M. Here is a two shot stitch with the DP1M and a 6 shot stitch with the DP2M. The DP1M had some strong purple fringing along the cliff edge, but one dropper click in LR took care of that. I used preset "overcast" WB and "landscape" color mode in SPP. Note the slight magenta cast with the DP1M and slight greenish cast with the DP2M. I did not correct WB in either. Stitching was a bit sloppy with the 6 images from the DP2M because of a couple of non-level shots. I may have to get a pano head like Quentin is using so well. Note the flyfisherman in the lower left of the DP2M image. Spawning salmon and brown trout are running up from the lake now.


    LARGER


    LARGER
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    Which colour settings do you use in the DP2M and in SPP? I use "standard".

    Any experience with the other colour-settings-options?

    Which member here will make the first step and buys a Sigma SD1 Merrill?

  17. #617
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    Carl the second picture viewed large is just awesome!

    LouisB

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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    Quote Originally Posted by biglouis View Post
    Carl the second picture viewed large is just awesome!

    LouisB
    Thanks Louis. A very photogenic and easily accessible landmark in the city of Ithaca.
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    Quote Originally Posted by 4711 View Post
    Which colour settings do you use in the DP2M and in SPP? I use "standard".

    Any experience with the other colour-settings-options?

    Which member here will make the first step and buys a Sigma SD1 Merrill?
    I've been using "neutral", but with these fall color shots I'm trying "landscape", which is a bit like Velvia. I don't know if there are any lenses for the SD1 that can match the DP2M quality with the 30mm. Also, I would prefer a mirrorless camera.
    Carl
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots







    Uwe Steinmueller
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    Great shots, Carl.

    Something a bit prosaic from the church visit today



    Louis, I try to shoot for the shadows. The X3 fill light seems to work almost like an HDR function. I always set colour to "neutral" and use sunlight out doors.
    Quentin Bargate
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    Quentin Bargate
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    some very nice work, are you guys using tripods?

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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    Quote Originally Posted by jlm View Post
    some very nice work, are you guys using tripods?
    For panos, yes, otherwise mostly not.
    Quentin Bargate
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    So far all handheld.
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    Mostly tripod for landscapes. Here is another of the Fall Creek gorge below Ithaca Falls. Look at original, full size image for the detail in the gorge wall, foliage, and stream rocks. This was a two shot stitch, cropped.


    FULL SIZE
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    Quote Originally Posted by Sapphie View Post


    Lee
    Quote Originally Posted by scho View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ustein View Post
    Lee.......Carl......Uwe,

    These are ALL looking great. Please keep shooting.

    R
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  28. #628
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    Thanks Rich.

    I wanted to ask about the 'Convert to JPEG' option within SPP. It has been mentioned over on DPR that the RAW file contains a full JPEG and that this can be 'extracted'. I must admit to have been struggling to even find the 'Convert to JPEG' option but it resides on the File menu when you are in the SPP browser window. This would remove the need to shoot RAW+JPEG and save on some file space on the card. You can then select multiple images in the browser window and generate the JPEGs this way, if you wanted to do so quickly.

    The JPEG produced this way certainly doesn't use any of the settings you may have made in the SPP Adjustment panel, so it is not the same as Save As ... so I think this is correct, it is a copy of the JPEG as produced by the camera at the time of shooting.

    One more observation - when opening a RAW file in SPP you get an initial rendering and then, once fully processed, the image changes slightly. I had assumed this was much like any other RAW converter where you initially get the embedded JPEG displayed before the final result generated by the converter. That would make sense except this initial rendering I see does not match the JPEG that I get extracted the above way!

    Lee

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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    Uwe

    I almost feel I can step into that cockpit!

    LouisB

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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    Quote Originally Posted by scho View Post
    Mostly tripod for landscapes. Here is another of the Fall Creek gorge below Ithaca Falls. Look at original, full size image for the detail in the gorge wall, foliage, and stream rocks. This was a two shot stitch, cropped.


    FULL SIZE
    You have a perfect amount of movement in the water there, Carl

    Sadly we don't have many waterfalls near where we live!

    What are you using to help with stitching?

    Quentin
    Last edited by Quentin_Bargate; 7th October 2012 at 05:15.
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    Quote Originally Posted by Quentin_Bargate View Post
    You have a perfect amount of movement in the water there, Carl

    Sadly we don't have many waterfalls near where we live!

    What are you using?

    Quentin
    Thanks Quentin. The 1/2 sec shutter speed put just the right amount of drag on the water. I'm using an old Gitzo 1027 MKII carbon fiber tripod, Gitzo ball head, and RRS QR clamp. The latter works well with John's L plate on the combo grip. I just use Photomerge in CS6 for stitching.
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    In fact, I take my hat off to you



    (DP2M in France)
    Quentin Bargate
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    Bug and grass



    Tools

    Quentin Bargate
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots



    Link to 50% size: http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8315/8...f69e4374_k.jpg (click the zoom icon once the image has loaded)

    This is a very special camera. Nothing great about the following shot except to say that the houses on the hill between the two trees are 3 miles away. One of those houses is ours. When I zoom in to 100% I can quite clearly see our windows, chimneys etc and no we don't live in a mansion ...



    Link to 50% original size: http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8315/8...75abb408_k.jpg (click the zoom icon once the image has loaded)

    Lee
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    Here two shots from DP2M and X-Pro1 (not the same but same airplane and light):

    X-Pro1 + 35mm (converted with PhotoRaw on the iPad :-))



    DP2M



    The DP2M shows clearly more detail but I like the X-Pro1 image too.
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    Quote Originally Posted by ustein View Post
    Here two shots from DP2M and X-Pro1 (not the same but same airplane and light):

    The DP2M shows clearly more detail but I like the X-Pro1 image too.
    +1 ... more bite on that Sigma image too
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    >more bite on that Sigma image too

    More bite does not mean better.
    Uwe Steinmueller
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    Uwe

    Your plane shots clearly show a critical difference in revealing texture. I think it must be a combination of sensor and lens working together to produce something special.

    whatever it is, it has me under a spell!
    Quentin Bargate
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    Quote Originally Posted by ustein View Post
    >more bite on that Sigma image too

    More bite does not mean better.
    Uwe,

    I agree. The Sigma reins for detail but there is more to IQ than detail. There is something very special about the X-Pro images too.

    Lee

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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    DP2M: Detail amazing, lens is first rate, colors can be mutes, shadows noisy, no high ISO camera, $1000

    X-Pro1: 35mm lens is good, detail can be an issue if pixel peeping, colors fine, high ISO nice, raw processing needs improvement, 35mm is an f/1.4 lens for shallow DOF and real low light, $2300 with 35mm
    Last edited by ustein; 7th October 2012 at 11:25.
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    Quote Originally Posted by biglouis View Post
    Top of Primrose Hill, today. iso100 f8 1/320

    When I opened this up in Sigma Photo Pro it really was a FM moment.



    I also thought you might want to link to the original sized file just to see the detail and the amazing microcontrast. You can actually see through windows on the top of the BT Tower and I am fairly certain that 747 is a British Airways plane.

    Be warned this is a 10MB file (80% jpg compression)

    LouisB
    Holy Crap!!!
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    Quote Originally Posted by Sapphie View Post
    Uwe,

    I agree. The Sigma reins for detail but there is more to IQ than detail. There is something very special about the X-Pro images too.

    Lee

    I am a BIG X-Pro fan, no doubt. I had it at the same time as a Nex-7 (have the XE-1 on pre-order).
    The Nex-7 had clearly more detail, but I dug the X-Pro better (although I did indeed miss the detail).

    This Sigma has more detail, but also a level of bite that the Sony did not have.
    And the color... much nicer/richer IMO than the Sony, FWIW.

    Bite, to me, puts you 'there' (3-d) if it is right, as opposed to a more compressed presenation like the Sony.
    Last edited by FullFrameOrBust; 7th October 2012 at 12:43.

  43. #643
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    >A bit less sharpening and a little shadow fill light in SPP

    Carl what are you using most of the time?
    Uwe Steinmueller
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    Shadow noise in moderation does not bother me. I can deal with shadow noise in post processing, but I can't add detail that is not there in the first place. On that basis, the DP2M is simply a better choice for me than the X-Pro1.
    Quentin Bargate
    Co-Founder of Ajuve, Director of Bargate Murray, Law Firm of the Year 2012 - 2016, Photographer
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    Senior Member Quentin_Bargate's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    Quote Originally Posted by FullFrameOrBust View Post
    Holy Crap!!!
    Louis, that shot has so much ridiculous detail it should be banned!
    Quentin Bargate
    Co-Founder of Ajuve, Director of Bargate Murray, Law Firm of the Year 2012 - 2016, Photographer

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    Super Duper
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    Quote Originally Posted by ustein View Post
    >A bit less sharpening and a little shadow fill light in SPP

    Carl what are you using most of the time?
    Uwe,

    I've been setting sharpness in the 0 to -1 range in SPP. Fill light 0.1 to 0.3 when needed. WB is sometimes a struggle and I try to get close in SPP and then refine in LR. Color mode is usually neutral, but the last series of fall color shots I used landscape. I set both noise reduction sliders in SPP to the minimum.
    Carl
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    Quote Originally Posted by Quentin_Bargate View Post
    Shadow noise in moderation does not bother me. I can deal with shadow noise in post processing, but I can't add detail that is not there in the first place. On that basis, the DP2M is simply a better choice for me than the X-Pro1.
    I agree, but... at low ISO's, of course.
    The X-Pro1 has far more latitude(alas, and there is the rub).

  48. #648
    Contributing Editor ustein's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    >I set both noise reduction sliders in SPP to the minimum.

    As I understand this cannot be stored in a Preset. Really bad.
    Uwe Steinmueller
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    Editor&Owner of Digital Outback Photo
    http://www.outbackphoto.com
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    Quote Originally Posted by Quentin_Bargate View Post
    Shadow noise in moderation does not bother me. I can deal with shadow noise in post processing, but I can't add detail that is not there in the first place. On that basis, the DP2M is simply a better choice for me than the X-Pro1.
    That is the primary reason I did not continue with the XP1. My images had beautiful, smooth color, but the razor sharp real detail was just not there for me. RPP did a much better job compared to LR, but although detail was improved somewhat it was associated with some noise I didn't like.
    Carl
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    Contributing Editor ustein's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    >RPP did a much better job compared to LR,

    Lot of faked detail due to jaggies.
    Uwe Steinmueller
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    Editor&Owner of Digital Outback Photo
    http://www.outbackphoto.com

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