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Thread: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    Hi Thorkil, thanks for the kind remarks, and yes, remember when 400ISO was a medium "fast" film?? We have become so used to the the versatility of high ISO digital... But your D800E must have pretty good high ISO, why get rid of it? Its a decent camera, surely??!

    Carl, beauty is in the eye of the beholder Looking forward to seeing some DP1M shots from you, soon I hope.
    Quentin Bargate
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    Quote Originally Posted by scho View Post

    ...

    Thanks Quentin. The DP2M is certainly not a beauty queen - more like a small, minimalistic black box, but with an outstanding sensor inside. . .
    And a wonderful lens on the front (reckoned by a few to be on a par with Leica)

    Keith

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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    Hi Carl, very nice pictures too.
    Specially the boathouse-door has the roomy feeling.
    And then those two wood-root pictures. Thats very funny to see the difference to the OM-D. I must admit that I better like the DP2-one, not that the OM-D isn't good. Hardf to explain and point out, but the rendering is somewhat more calm though more strong, more impressive in the relaxed way (well, well perhaps a little overdone word, but never-the-less)
    Thorkil

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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    [QUOTE=Quentin_Bargate;445052]Hi Thorkil, thanks for the kind remarks, and yes, remember when 400ISO was a medium "fast" film?? We have become so used to the the versatility of high ISO digital... But your D800E must have pretty good high ISO, why get rid of it? Its a decent camera, surely??!
    QUOTE]
    Yes, we are some sort of getting spoiled, we expect to go clean all the way to 25.000 or at least 3.200/6.400. Yes 400 was relativ fast those days but not as good as the Velvia 50/100.
    Well the 800E is difficult to explain. Yes it should be decent. But non of the Nikon glasses give that touch that I dreamed of. Some Zeiss-lenses get closer, but not enough. But the Leica R-lenses do, but again even though only available as used, they are expensive, and for the time beeing the financial crises in the building-sektor in Denmark means that I have to think twice. So unless I go R the 800E look somewhat flat and uninspiering, and colours are not shining in the way I would like. An OM-D, a RX100, M9(in another leque I know), GXR and GRD look better, and the DP2M, and then that little extra twist in the DP, that means a lot.
    The 800D do not inspire me, and thats a pity. But scaling down the ambitions and go with the small but high quality cameras might perhaps turn into a relief. Anyway you get more invisible that way, and less tired.
    Thorkil
    (and it would be nice with a camera that withstood and keept the inspiration also after the "classic" 2-month I'm-in-love-period, and I have a suspicion that a RX100 could leave me relativ cold after that period, but it might be totally unfair to say so(havn't tried it), and it might solely be prejudices)
    Last edited by Thorkil; 24th August 2012 at 00:00.

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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    Quote Originally Posted by woodmancy View Post
    And a wonderful lens on the front (reckoned by a few to be on a par with Leica)

    Keith
    It is a great lens. NO CA - unheard of with any lens I have owned before. Truly as sharp at the edges as centre. Almost as if Sigma are saying "see what we can do if we really want to?!". All credit to them. Makes the Zeiss 24mm in the E-mounts for Sony look ordinary. Imagine what they could do if they decided to make a super-premium line of EX-plus lenses, money no object. Bit like Renault in Fomula One. If I ran Sigma, that's what I would do.
    Quentin Bargate
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    Hi Quentin, just to say, that, don't forget to post...when/if you get some sparetime.., might also just be some with modest pp.
    best
    Thorkil

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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    Quote Originally Posted by Thorkil View Post
    Hi Quentin, just to say, that, don't forget to post...when/if you get some sparetime.., might also just be some with modest pp.
    best
    Thorkil
    Also from Ely, an old boat taken with the DP2M.

    Quentin Bargate
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    Hi, thanks, really like it.
    Thorkil

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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    Well, don't know if this could be of any interest, but anyway:
    Sigma DP2M - A User's Review
    Thorkil
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    Thanks, Thorkil! That answered a few key questions I had.

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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots



    and here is another
    Sigma DP2M Merrill Review Part 1 — MONO - CULTURE
    not finished but also good pictures, I think.(just click under the tomatos)
    Thorkil
    ps. in my eyes its like Quentin's some heavy stuff..

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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    Hmmmm, thanks Thorkil, I will check out the review

    In the meantime, a DP2M testimonial for Dean, the "Man with a van" from whom I buy coffee at the railway station most monings



    I oftn discuss cameras with Dean, who is a Videographer as well as supplying steaming hot morning beverages...
    Quentin Bargate
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    well done Quentin!, and a stout face! sharp and well-defined!
    Thorkil

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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    The image is slightly cropped already. Here is a crop of Dean's face at full resolution.
    Quentin Bargate
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    Quote Originally Posted by Thorkil View Post
    Hi Carl, very nice pictures too.
    Specially the boathouse-door has the roomy feeling.
    And then those two wood-root pictures. Thats very funny to see the difference to the OM-D. I must admit that I better like the DP2-one, not that the OM-D isn't good. Hardf to explain and point out, but the rendering is somewhat more calm though more strong, more impressive in the relaxed way (well, well perhaps a little overdone word, but never-the-less)
    Thorkil
    Thanks Thorkil. The subject for the OMD/DP2M comparison was too close so that using f/8 and same distance resulted in less DOF for the OMD.
    Carl
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    Quote Originally Posted by Quentin_Bargate View Post
    The image is slightly cropped already. Here is a crop of Dean's face at full resolution.
    Great detail and nicely rendered in B&W.
    Carl
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    Nothing special about this simple landscape image, but the clarity and foliage detail rendered by the DP2M continues to amaze me.

    Park Geese
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    Hi Carl, exactly. This thing is addictive... the first camera I can remember buying or using recently that has really changed my perception of what is possible in a portable camera.
    Quentin Bargate
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    Few pictures to compare the DP2M and D800E.
    The D800E is favored, the photographed subject is closer.
    Other pictures (mostly with D800E, and some one with DP2m) presented in blog are rather successful.

    šにœŸ*€Œに小ˆ€俺にƒŠƒƒˆ‚ : DP2MとD800E‚’”べてみŸ


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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    Quentin Bargate
    Co-Founder of Ajuve, Director of Bargate Murray, Law Firm of the Year 2012 - 2016, Photographer

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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    Quote Originally Posted by octagone View Post
    Few pictures to compare the DP2M and D800E.
    The D800E is favored, the photographed subject is closer.
    Other pictures (mostly with D800E, and some one with DP2m) presented in blog are rather successful.

    šにœŸ*€Œに小ˆ€俺にƒŠƒƒˆ‚ : DP2MとD800E‚’”べてみŸ

    Thanks. I have seen that comparsion before, and unsurprsingly the D800 has more fine detail - but so does my Hasselblad H4D-50 (which would blow the D800 away in that regard). There is more than (well above average) resolution in what makes the DP2M so compelling. These resolution test are fun but don't get to the soul of the camera (in my opinion...). But if its just resolution that intests anyone, my test against the NEX-7 earlier in the thread, flawed though it may be, suggests a resolution comparable with a bayer sensor camera around the 28mp mark.
    Quentin Bargate
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    Hi Quentin, that face I do not think my 800E would be able to do, in that way. Allthough the 800E is impressive in details, the glasses or the combo doesn't do things in that way, the details are some edge-soft. I think such an extreme welldefined, sharp and detailed result as this, plus that roomy very well-done way of render the shape of his head is rather unik. The SWC-hassy had that sharpnes but lacked the more soft/gentle way the Leica lenses, or some, was able to render the 3-dimensional things. I think this lens+sensor has some of the crispnes the old Hassy CF-lenses had, before lead was forbidden and before the Fuji-lenses, plus it also does it in a sort of Leica-way at the same time. And thats an achievement.
    Best
    Thorkil

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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    Quote Originally Posted by Quentin_Bargate View Post
    Thanks. I have seen that comparsion before, and unsurprsingly the D800 has more fine detail - but so does my Hasselblad H4D-50 (which would blow the D800 away in that regard). There is more than (well above average) resolution in what makes the DP2M so compelling. These resolution test are fun but don't get to the soul of the camera (in my opinion...). But if its just resolution that intests anyone, my test against the NEX-7 earlier in the thread, flawed though it may be, suggests a resolution comparable with a bayer sensor camera around the 28mp mark.
    Here are some details to 100% from the first and last picture of the comparison.
    Versions DP2M interpolated 36Mpix.
    Details DP2M are smaller because the photographed subject is further away from the D800E.

    D800e - DP2 m










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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    Impressive! What interpolation program did you use?
    Quentin Bargate
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    Quote Originally Posted by Quentin_Bargate View Post
    Impressive! What interpolation program did you use?
    I am using S-Spline Max, alone, and often associated with Bilinear, to keep a more realistic textures.
    For the sheets(leaves) of the examples, I just used S-Spline Max, by having working the accentuation under Photoshop.
    Then I work the accentuation under Photoshop, using layers Floux.
    I use the same settings in general and accent Floux for version agrendie with S-Spline Max and Bilinear.
    Function and textures, I merge (or not), opacity 50 to 54, sometimes 60 (depending on the texture desired result), the result obtained with Bilinear (accentuated with photoshop) with the result obtained with S-Spline Max (accentuation included).

    Shown in the details, I think the DP2M, restores over small details that D800E.

    And the outlines of sheets(leaves) are better defined.




    Some examples of interpolations 45Mpix, using the same method, from a photo treated with SPP.

    Photo (X3F format) I downloaded here:
    Pond's Place: Sigma DP2M first photos

    DP2M user review; 96 photos with full size JPEGs and raw files [Page 1]: Sigma SLR Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review













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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    Quote Originally Posted by Quentin_Bargate View Post
    It is a different lens than the ones in E and m4/3rds mounts.

    Why did they make those without the high refractive index elements used in the DP-M lens?

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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    It is a different lens than the ones in E and m4/3rds mounts.

    Why did they make those without the high refractive index elements used in the DP-M lens?
    Good point. Cost? A lot of lenses have been found wanting as sensors have improved. It seems they are only as good as they needed to be at the time. So Hassy have had to upgrade two of their lenses (I changed my HC50 for the HC50 Mark II - much better, sharper lens) - why were they not better specified from the outset? They cost enough! There is no reason why Sigma coud not make more of their lenses to the standard of the DP2M glass.
    Quentin Bargate
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    Quentin, The Sigma 30/2.8 (and the 19) prices have plummeted from 189 Euros to below 160 Euros.

    I would have gladly paid more (would still) for a better version. With better glass, it could also be more compact.

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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    Three more DP2M images from a morning walk along the waterfront. Harsh lighting and I expected to see CA in some backlit shots, but couldn't find any. Click links below thumbnails for full size images.


    Full Size


    Full Size


    Full Size
    Carl
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    Great stuff, Carl! The near total lack of CA is a huge bonus. What were your settings in Sigma Photo Pro for NR and sharpening?
    Quentin Bargate
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    Quote Originally Posted by Quentin_Bargate View Post
    Great stuff, Carl! The near total lack of CA is a huge bonus. What were your settings in Sigma Photo Pro for NR and sharpening?
    Thanks Quentin. I had sharpening set for -1 and both chroma and luminance noise reduction at the lowest setting.
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    Quote Originally Posted by Quentin_Bargate View Post
    Any specs available yet for the 19mm that will be in the DP1M? If the 19 is as good as the 30 I may get that camera as well. I had both E mount versions for the NEX7 and the lenses performed very well, but they were not as good as the DP2M 30.
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    Hi Carl

    Not heard much about the DP1M. Given it must be identical except for the lens to the DP2M, it is surprising not to hear more - possiby tweaking the package to match the performance of the DP2M

    A couple of points I have noticed with your tree shots that I have also seen with some of my own DP2M images.

    The yellows and reds in shade can look undersaturated. I noticed this with the first sample image I posted of the red tomatoes when I started this thread. The nuts on the left are a little undersaturated compared with real life. I think this is more than a colour balance issue but a characteristic of the sensor. Would you agree? It does not dampen my enthusiasm for the camera, but it is something to be aware of.

    Quentin
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    Quote Originally Posted by Quentin_Bargate View Post
    Hi Carl

    Not heard much about the DP1M. Given it must be identical except for the lens to the DP2M, it is surprising not to hear more - possiby tweaking the package to match the performance of the DP2M

    A couple of points I have noticed with your tree shots that I have also seen with some of my own DP2M images.

    The yellows and reds in shade can look undersaturated. I noticed this with the first sample image I posted of the red tomatoes when I started this thread. The nuts on the left are a little undersaturated compared with real life. I think this is more than a colour balance issue but a characteristic of the sensor. Would you agree? It does not dampen my enthusiasm for the camera, but it is something to be aware of.

    Quentin
    Yes, I've noticed this as well, particularly if the shadows are boosted to get more detail. Not a major problem, but as you pointed out one to be aware of.
    Carl
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    Quote Originally Posted by Quentin_Bargate View Post
    Great stuff, Carl! The near total lack of CA is a huge bonus. What were your settings in Sigma Photo Pro for NR and sharpening?

    I repost what I posted there at 7am.
    Apparently he has not been accepted by moderation.

    I am using S-Spline Max, alone, and often associated with Bilinear, to keep a more realistic textures.
    Then I work the accentuation under Photoshop, using layers Floux.

    The leaves, have summers interpolated with S-Spline Max (accented with photoshop).

    I use the same settings in general and accent Floux for version agrendie with S-Spline Max and Bilinear.

    Function and textures, I merge (or not), opacity 50 to 54, sometimes 60 (depending on the texture desired result), the result obtained with Bilinear (accentuated with photoshop) with the result obtained with S-Spline Max (accentuated photoshop).


    In the examples interpolated of DP2M, I find that one see more details small than D800e.
    The contours of the leaves are also better with DP2m.


    DPreview a link with examples 45Mpix, using the same method.
    Re: DP2M user review; 96 photos with full size JPEGs and raw files: Sigma SLR Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

    Re: DP2M user review; 96 photos with full size JPEGs and raw files: Sigma SLR Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review


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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    I also use S-Spline Max with Photozoom Pro 4, but I have not combined layers using different algorithms as you seem to have done. Sounds like hard work. If its really does yield better results than the D800E then that would be an exceptional result.

    I think the more people who can post their successes and experiences with the DP2M the better we will understand the possibilities and limitations of an exceptional tool.
    Quentin Bargate
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    Hello Quentin,

    My method of interpolation is relatively symple to use.
    According to the photographed subject it can ask more or less of working time.


    In spite of these dfaults, it is true that this device has a lot of potential photo-quality low iso.

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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    Leavings

    I'm sure that many different scenarios could be constructed from this scene.

    Carl
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    Call the police!
    Quentin Bargate
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    Quote Originally Posted by Quentin_Bargate View Post
    Call the police!


    The search for Ratty & Mole hots up....

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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    Ceiling abstract, from Bury St Edmund's Cathedral today with the DP2M

    Quentin Bargate
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    [QUOTE=Quentin_Bargate;445705]Ceiling abstract, from Bury St Edmund's Cathedral today with the DP2M

    Clap hands! Stamp your feet! Bangin' on the big bass drum! What a picture! What a photograph!

    Must be the sensor.

    Something odd about it though, tried looking upside down-was still odd.

    Gandolfi.

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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    [QUOTE=gandolfi;445708]
    Quote Originally Posted by Quentin_Bargate View Post
    Ceiling abstract, from Bury St Edmund's Cathedral today with the DP2M

    Clap hands! Stamp your feet! Bangin' on the big bass drum! What a picture! What a photograph!

    Must be the sensor.

    Something odd about it though, tried looking upside down-was still odd.

    Gandolfi.
    Hi Gandolfi, know what you mean. The camera was pointing directly up, more or less, so the orientation is a matter of taste!

    And it was on a tripod...pretty dark, those churches. Also being two dimentional, its not easy to see the top part is much higher than the bottom.

    Quentin
    Quentin Bargate
    Co-Founder of Ajuve, Director of Bargate Murray, Law Firm of the Year 2012 - 2016, Photographer

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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    [QUOTE=gandolfi;445708]
    Quote Originally Posted by Quentin_Bargate View Post
    Ceiling abstract, from Bury St Edmund's Cathedral today with the DP2M

    Clap hands! Stamp your feet! Bangin' on the big bass drum! What a picture! What a photograph!

    Must be the sensor.

    Something odd about it though, tried looking upside down-was still odd.

    Gandolfi.
    +1

    Want to stop myself, but can't. Here goes . . .

    Who would true valour see,
    Let him come hither;
    One here will constant be,
    Come wind, come weather
    Theres no discouragement
    Shall make him once relent
    His first avowed intent
    To be a pilgrim.

    Sung it under that roof with a few hundred other teeny-boppers many years ago. This Merill is bringing back memories for me. Lets hope Quentin lays off the fish and chips . . We are moving closer to nowhere

    Keith

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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    Hi Quentin
    Splendid!
    I have a thought/wish, allow me to tell: I don't know how much pp. you do but I may doubt that I will be able to manage that. I guess I'm just a ordinary "slider-pusher" in C1. So I'm curious about if you could post some that has just got some "primitive pp.", sharpnes, saturation, clarity, brightnes. Just simple stuff. Or if any single colour is corrected, then tell.
    Its just to cacht some sort of realistic picture of the game for my own part.
    Best
    Thorkil

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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    [QUOTE=woodmancy;445717]
    Quote Originally Posted by gandolfi View Post

    ...

    Sung it under that roof with a few hundred other teeny-boppers many years ago. This Merill is bringing back memories for me. Lets hope Quentin lays off the fish and chips . . We are moving closer to nowhere

    Keith
    It's not the fish and chips you need to be worried about, Keith... The Greene King brewery is in Bury, as I am sure you know, and they do a nice drop of ale..although I'd worry about your rendition of hymns if you tried the stuff first

    Thorkil, I do tend to do a fair bit of post processing when required. I will do a before and after if you like

    Cheers
    Quentin
    Quentin Bargate
    Co-Founder of Ajuve, Director of Bargate Murray, Law Firm of the Year 2012 - 2016, Photographer

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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    One of the reasons for my visit to Bury, aparrt from wanting to see the Cathedral agian, was to push the DP2M to its limits as a medium format subsitute camera - bit extreme, but it got me thinking about possibly stitching images to further increase resolution / image size. No, its not a H4D-50, my usual weapon of choice, but its not that far off, and a heck of a lot more conveninet to carry

    The following image of St Edmundsbury cathedral altar is a stich of 3 not particularly well aligned images, taken from left to right in manual mode, and stiched in PTGui.



    Final image size after some perpective correction is 94mb, so about the equivalent to two standard DP2M images

    A problem I have noticed is there is a tendancy in low light for the edges to go a bit green. This necesitates remedial action to correct.

    It is also quite difficult to take such a small camera as seriously as this. You have to keep pinching yourself! You also might get dismissive looks from the large-DSLR-with-big-zoom-lens crowd
    Quentin Bargate
    Co-Founder of Ajuve, Director of Bargate Murray, Law Firm of the Year 2012 - 2016, Photographer
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    Quote Originally Posted by Quentin_Bargate View Post

    Thorkil, I do tend to do a fair bit of post processing when required. I will do a before and after if you like

    Cheers
    Quentin
    Quentin, yes please, that I would like
    Thorkil
    (yes, one can see (some of the outstanding pp.), you are typical using different program also?, can you sketch the flow you use to do?, just a sketch)

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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    That one, Quentin, the Cathedral, is just a mighty picture! Yes the medium/large format comes in mind.
    Yes, you have to have a sign to put on your back "I AM a pro" when the DSLR's guyes have pity in their eyes and think, O lord, another poor father in law practicing for a wedding shot with his Instamatic...
    Thorkil
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    Re: Sigma DP2 Merrill shots

    A few more I took on the day

    Quentin Bargate
    Co-Founder of Ajuve, Director of Bargate Murray, Law Firm of the Year 2012 - 2016, Photographer
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