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Thread: Sigma DP3M

  1. #451
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    Re: Sigma DP3M

    Louis,

    You know I am hankering for an excuse to buy the DP3 for my studio work.

    You talk about slow autofocus. Would you worry that it might struggle to focus using the modelling lights? Does it have a spot focus option so one can focus on the nearest eye?

    Tony

  2. #452
    Senior Member biglouis's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma DP3M

    Tony

    Spot focus? Sort of in that you have a 3 x 3 grid of focus points just like on all of the 3 cameras. I tend to adjust my frame to include the point if required.

    Hulyss Bowman has the most experience of shooting with studio lights with models. You might want to PM him for his opinion.

    LouisB

  3. #453
    Senior Member Hulyss Bowman's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma DP3M

    Hello, as some asked me via mail if focussing is or isn't an issue in studio here is my answer:

    Focussing with a DP3m in studio is faster than focussing with any MFDB ever created, like H5D (and "true" focus lol).

    This need some basic operations :

    At first, no need dazzling lights to be able to focus; simple modelling lights are very sufficient. Once on your tripod, you can use MF or AF. I personally use MF with magnification, it is extremely quick. For that, understanding that the DP use contrast AF, you need to spot a good contrast zone. Before shooting, since we all want "focus on eye", set the AF size to the minimum (back arrow and dial). Then, set the focus area to be free of move. You will be able to chose you AF point even in diagonal.

    After the "studio setting" of the DP, you can start to shoot. Always prefer an aperture in the range of f4, f6.3. Have enough room to be able to shoot your model in full portrait mode (you see foots and head). At this distance and aperture, minimal AF error will be invisible even at 100% so do not worry. The modelling light should reflect in at least one eye : This is your contrast zone !

    So you can magnify to 100% and focus manually (the LCD display will be as crap as you can imagine but, after all, it work fine every times). The AF should work to, I use it sometimes, but it can hunt badly so always use MF, it is very fast. Shoot, process the file roughly in SPP, do not touch sharpness and export double size tiff 16bit Profoto RGB. You're done.

    For fast aperture shoot, this is a little bit more tricky but very doable with some experimentation. Use f2.8 exclusively on close up portraits (between 50 and 90cm) and use the same method but ask your model to NOT MOVE.

    Hope this help a bit
    Kind regards - Hulyss - hulyssbowman.com

  4. #454
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    Re: Sigma DP3M

    Thanks Hulyss

    " Have enough room to be able to shoot your model in full portrait mode (you see foots and head)."

    With a DP3? My guess that is 20 feet away.

    I'd planned to buy my DP3 for head - and possibly to waist - portraits.

    Should I be buying the DP2 and assuming I won't get distortion?

    Thanks anyway for confirming that modelling lights are OK for focussing.

    Tony

  5. #455
    Senior Member Hulyss Bowman's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma DP3M

    The DP2 is less recommended for studio shoot. First, because this is not a portrait camera and second because of is color rendition, less good than the DP3.

    The "rules" in portrait and people photography are quite clear and academic. For the purists, using a focal under 100 mm is a sin. Somehow, I agree. So using the DP3 for "American" plan should not be a real problem but you will have distortion, even with the DP3.

    I hope SIGMA will come out with a Full Frame sensor soon, or at least a DP with SA mount. The only problem is the loose of the leaf shutter, so it is a bad thing.

    We need a DP with FF foveon sensor and a 135f2 glass on it with leaf shutter >> THIS WOULD BE AN ULTIMATE CAMERA FOR FASHION SHOOTERS OVER THE WORLD, PERIOD.

    Otherwise, better way to use traditional bayer DSLR for pro work, IMHO.

    For the DP3, 3 meters are sufficient to shoot almost an entire human body.
    Kind regards - Hulyss - hulyssbowman.com

  6. #456
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    Re: Sigma DP3M

    Thanks Hulyss.

    I'll stay with the DP3 then. There is a good deal in the UK at the moment taking it just under 500 UKP. (Or is seems good to me!!).

    Tony

  7. #457
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    Re: Sigma DP3M

    Quote Originally Posted by biglouis View Post
    Kyndel

    I am not at all impressed with the AF of the DP3M. It is actually very poor, in my experience. The problem is that when focus is spot on the results are nothing short of spectacular, especially at f2.8-3.2. The DP3M is definitely a love-hate relationship for me. Love the results, hate the AF.

    LouisB
    Thank You, Louis, oh yes I can see top-results here from you, but as I understand you the AF is not so good as the DP1M or DP2M ? = As I recall you have the DP2M also ?

    Added: I think I have read all reviews and test about the DP3M, and some says, that the AF is improved after the last firmware update, have you tryed this Louis ?
    Last edited by Kyndel; 13th November 2013 at 04:28.

  8. #458
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    Re: Sigma DP3M

    In the end of next week I will get an offer about the DP3M (new, not used), and if it is a good offer, I will end up with 1-2-3 Merrill,

    ....can not help it

    I am inspired after reading Hulyss Bowmans review of the DP3M at L.Landscape.

    Thanks.

  9. #459
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    Re: Sigma DP3M

    Now the DP3M is on its way to me from Germany, and then I have all 3

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    Re: Sigma DP3M


  11. #461
    Senior Member Hulyss Bowman's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma DP3M

    Bring up this thread

    Kind regards - Hulyss - hulyssbowman.com
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  12. #462
    Senior Member biglouis's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma DP3M

    ^^^ superb ^^^

    With the right lighting probably the best digital medium telephoto in the world, imho.

    LouisB
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    My new book "Whitechapel in 50 BUildings", Flikr Stream, www.louisberk.com
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  13. #463
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    Re: Sigma DP3M

    Beautifull Photo, Hulyss.

    --

    Got the Sigma DP3 M Yesterday, and you are right, you can shoot in Vivid with this Merrill, and it is not too much, as it is with the others - or used to be, in fact it is very fine - I have not tryed with the others after the last firmaware update, perhaps something is changed there in the 1 and 2, so you also can here with the 1 and 2 ?

  14. #464
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    Re: Sigma DP3M

    Quote Originally Posted by Hulyss Bowman View Post
    Bring up this thread
    Hulyss, a nice photo, like the tones among many good attributes.

    Hello all. I've been following these threads for quite some time. The new to me DP3 has been,so far a joy. I enjoy using a tripod and working at a leisurely pace. Therefore an Ideal camera for myself, complimenting other image capturing devices I have.

    As yet the work flow is Photo pro, into either Cs6 or LR as Tiff's. Photo ninja is available if needed.

    Got out yesterday, after having the camera for a week.


    DP3 by JuliandeCourcy, on Flickr


    DP3 by JuliandeCourcy, on Flickr


    DP3 by JuliandeCourcy, on Flickr
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  15. #465
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    Re: Sigma DP3M

    Hello all.
    Recently having acquired the DP3, so far after the week of use, I can say there are so many positives about this small camera, that I am sure it will be a great addition to the gear I already have.
    Living in the Far south west of the UK, surrounded by the sea, surf beaches and fishing villages, the source for images are not hard to discover. I also enjoy still life and abstract photography.
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  16. #466
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    Re: Sigma DP3M



    Riflessi a Chiavari

  17. #467
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    Re: Sigma DP3M



    Caffettiera

  18. #468
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    Re: Sigma DP3M

    I tryed to shoot portraits with the DP3M and did a comparision betw. Nikon D7100 with a top prime lens and others, also Fuji x100S.

    Just out of the box (RAW) the DP3M was not the best in my IMHO, but in the end it was.

    It needed PP, and there is great room for this, greater than with other cameras I think, and it ended up to be the best.

    The only thing is that I could shoot with CLS (SU-800 and 3 Nikon flash) and only with one flash with the Sigma, and of course I got shadows.

    After this comparison I asked 2 firms about using Pocket wizards so I could trigger the 3 Nikon flashes from the Sigma, but none could answer this question.

    I have asked the model to tune in again, and then I will try another way with a beauty dish on a Nikon SB 900 wired to the camera, and then a better angle to the model.

  19. #469
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    Re: Sigma DP3M

    Pardon...



    ..."Caffettiera".
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  20. #470
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    Re: Sigma DP3M

    ...and "Riflessi a Chiavari"

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  21. #471
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    Re: Sigma DP3M

    Rack it took me awhile to recognise the car ^^^. Interesting take.
    Still looking and experimenting with the DP3 and using various work flows. Slowly getting some ideas and work pattern and how to deal with certain images. All good so far. Visited an aviation workshop the other day to have a look round.
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  22. #472
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    Re: Sigma DP3M

    Adrew, I like especially the last one.

    Plage of "S. Aygulf"

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  23. #473
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    Re: Sigma DP3M

    Thank you Rack. Like these latest B+W landscapes of yours.



    TIED TRYE by JuliandeCourcy, on Flickr



    TENDER by JuliandeCourcy, on Flickr


    DP3 by JuliandeCourcy, on Flickr
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  24. #474
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    Re: Sigma DP3M

    diglloyd blog - Tulips Brighten My day

    You have to scroll down to:

    Tulips Brighten My day
    Saturday, December 14, 2013 - SEND FEEDBACK
    Search: Sigma DP Merrill, canvas, printing, tulips


    I can not see anything wrong with those colors, Hyluss ?

    Perhaps they changed after the huge firmware update.

    I am very interested in your answer.

    Thanks

  25. #475
    Senior Member Hulyss Bowman's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma DP3M

    No they don't The DP2m is perfectly usable, if we like it, in landscape, objects, texture. But even in landscape, there is numerous photos over the web who show the flaw. The red channel is out, by a large margin. Skin tones contain red and this is were we can evaluate a sensor "equilibrium".

    The DP2m have issues with reds. Of course when you know PP, all is fixable. The brown gradations are more than off. Just see the SIGMA flickr and you will understand what I mean.

    In the link above, I do not really care about the picture but what is said above ^^ 5100 USD ?? Hooo Blimey

    I judge a camera on the delta between what I see, the reality (and I have very good eyes, especially in colours), and what the camera see. The delta between the reality and the DP2m reality is... well... huge. This is not the case with the DP3m.

    When I made the article on Lula about the DP3m, the very same pal rapidly attacked me on one of his article. Roughly he said I'm a poor amateur who said BS and that the colour delta between DP2m and DP3m was just in my head. Well... he was very wrong and many posts over DPreview proved that I was right. There is certainly a difference between bloggers and photographers.

    Same goes with Leica. The delta between M9 CCD and M240 CMOS is huge. Leica lost his soul over this. Many seen it, many seen it but was too fan boyz to say it and so on...

    I love SIGMA but I continue to think that the SD15, Dp2s, DP1s, DP2x, DP1x sensor was better in colour than the new foveon chip period. Resolution and acutance lured and dazzled the new comers in foveon side, that's all.

    The DP3m is the most accurate, colour wise, (with the SD1 coupled with some lenses) of all the new foveon generation.

    When you work with cameras and many brands, you see it asap.
    Last edited by Hulyss Bowman; 15th December 2013 at 10:27.
    Kind regards - Hulyss - hulyssbowman.com
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  26. #476
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    Re: Sigma DP3M

    Thank you very much Hulyss, in fact I work with many cameras =11 or 12 at the moment - from Nikons very best to Fuji x100S and all the small Merrills, and sometimes I like one rendering from another, depending of the subject, but I do not have the exact same approach as you.

    For example I love some of my pictures with the Sigma DP2 Merrill, even it is not 100 % as I saw it - in fact it is better, than the reality sometimes - or you could say, as I wish the reality was = But that is me, and of course I also want to sell something, so you are on the right track here, of course.

    Therefore you are much better to judge this than me, and I like to learn from you, and I can conclude that the huge firmware update for Sigma DP1 and 2 M did not give the same colors as the DP3M.

    --

    OH yes, 5100 dollars is huge, but he has got a lot of praise for those photos, so perhaps he can get it ?

    ---

    I need an advice here: I am so happy for my DP Merrills = The details and the clarity,... I have sold my D3x and I do not miss it anymore, and I am now thinking about the SD1 Merrill and mount the Sigma 35mm f/1.4, but

    1) I am not sure it is as good as the DP2M ? and

    2) What do you say about the colors from this combo ?

    Thanks a lot

  27. #477
    Senior Member Hulyss Bowman's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma DP3M

    Yea I understand you. In fact, this sensor go beyond our eyes, it is why it is amazing on screen. I'm not better than anyone to judge but I have experience with this material.

    The DP2m can output good balance but you need an absolute good light (and not to much brown in your picture). I find it is a very good Black and white tool but the lenses is not fast enough (or the sensor too small) to give a pleasing bokeh.



    An example I took in Paris, exifs inside. I don't like this photo. Some may find it nice, but the background is disturbing, fugly at best. This kind of photo is so much more well executed with any 24x36 camera ... It is in this situation where you think you did an error to bring "only" a DP...

    The DP3m, with his longer focal, do a better job (But I don't know why the hell they didn't added the same number of diaphragm blades as the DP2m ...). It is an excellent B&W camera too, when you need to go in high ISO like the photo bellow.



    And for the SD1, just wait till SIGMA bring out, by the time ..., a real modern DSLR. It seems something new is coming so you must wait
    Kind regards - Hulyss - hulyssbowman.com
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  28. #478
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    Re: Sigma DP3M

    Thank you very much, Hyluss, and yes I get it.

    About waiting= Yes, there are something on its way, I also think so, but I can have the SD 1M for a cheap price (new) just now, perhaps exactly because something new is on its way, but it is so cheap, that I was interested if this combo (35mm f/1.4) was good.

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    Re: Sigma DP3M

    Cactus
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    Senior Member Malina DZ's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma DP3M

    Quote Originally Posted by Hulyss Bowman View Post
    But I don't know why the hell they didn't added the same number of diaphragm blades as the DP2m ...
    I don't think it would improve anything if you look at how those DP2M's 9-curved blades render points of highlight at f/3.2.
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  31. #481
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    Re: Sigma DP3M

    Old Nail
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  32. #482
    Senior Member Tim's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma DP3M

    Quote Originally Posted by Hulyss Bowman View Post
    I love SIGMA but I continue to think that the SD15, Dp2s, DP1s, DP2x, DP1x sensor was better in colour than the new foveon chip period.
    I have a friend who states the same, he is sticking with his DP2 as he cannot see the same 'pop' in the DP2M. Maybe his eyes and yours are more tuned to see these things, I see the DP2M as more different but I can agree the pop is largely gone.

    What I have been experimenting for him with my DP2M is the low and medium resolution and looking at those files. Many will be aghast, saying "why do you want to lose resolution?", well I don't BUT I only want good resolution if I can keep the colours and integrity of the DP2 if possible. I find the handling and improved LCD of the DP2M over the DP2 a bonus, so continue to work with it (my DP2 I have safely locked up).

    I assume the DP2M achieves the lower res'es by dropping pixels for medium and low - how is done?.
    IMO the look of the DP2 does seem to come back to a degree at Med or Low. Is the loss of resolution worth it?

    I am now seriously considering a DP3M BUT more for the focal length than any other reason.

    Some numbers for comparison -

    DP2
    ----
    Hi - DP2 Hi res
    File size typically 12Mp
    2640 x 1760


    DP2M
    -----
    Hi X3F
    File size typically 50Mb
    4704 x 3136

    Medium X3F
    File size typically 22Mb
    3264 x 2176

    Low X3F
    File size typically 11Mb
    2336 x 1568

    Perhaps DP2M medium is the best compromise?
    I'd be interested if other users of DP2M's could also try some medium and low images and post their thoughts?

    Medium DP2M images for the heck of it.
    No slider tweaks on #1, a bit of X3 fill light on #2, taken in a bright but slightly cloudy day.
    Last edited by Tim; 26th December 2013 at 13:32.
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  33. #483
    Senior Member biglouis's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma DP3M

    Amaryllis in bloom.

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    My new book "Whitechapel in 50 BUildings", Flikr Stream, www.louisberk.com
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  34. #484
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    Re: Sigma DP3M

    Some photographs from today.


    HELIGAN by JuliandeCourcy, on Flickr


    HELIGAN by JuliandeCourcy, on Flickr


    DRAINS by JuliandeCourcy, on Flickr



    DRAINS by JuliandeCourcy, on Flickr
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  35. #485
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    Re: Sigma DP3M

    Quote Originally Posted by adrewdecourcy View Post
    Some photographs from today.


    HELIGAN by JuliandeCourcy, on Flickr


    HELIGAN by JuliandeCourcy, on Flickr


    DRAINS by JuliandeCourcy, on Flickr



    DRAINS by JuliandeCourcy, on Flickr
    Beutifull, it looks like a speciel PP on number 1 and 2 - would you share ?

    Thanks
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  36. #486
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    Re: Sigma DP3M

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyndel View Post
    Beutifull, it looks like a speciel PP on number 1 and 2 - would you share ?

    Thanks
    I'll try

    The DP3 is newish to myself, had it about a month so I am still seeing what is what. All images above were tripod mounted, which I use as much as I can with all the camera's I have.
    No. 1&2 shot raw, iso 100. The boiler house an 8s f7.1 exposure. The clock tower 1/60 f9. Processed Sigma Pro, adjusted WB and colour wheel. All noise reductions are set to zero, which i do with all the files. Export as tiff into Ps Cs6, where I did not do much at all to the boiler house pic. The Clock tower I used levels locally, along with gamma adjustments to pull up shadows,also lowered dynamic range in levels .Used saturation on individual colours. Backed off contrast a bit also. Used selective colour (black to deepen the shadows) Smart sharpened 48% with a radius 0.3. Saved for web bicubic sharper.
    I do tend to treat every file on it's own merits Such as the boiler house needed very little processing as I got lucky with this one shot and the exposure was ok.
    Approaching the boiler house shot, I was wondering how the Merrill would cope with low light, longish exposure. Have to say I was impressed.

  37. #487
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    Re: Sigma DP3M

    Quote Originally Posted by adrewdecourcy View Post
    I'll try

    The DP3 is newish to myself, had it about a month so I am still seeing what is what. All images above were tripod mounted, which I use as much as I can with all the camera's I have.
    No. 1&2 shot raw, iso 100. The boiler house an 8s f7.1 exposure. The clock tower 1/60 f9. Processed Sigma Pro, adjusted WB and colour wheel. All noise reductions are set to zero, which i do with all the files. Export as tiff into Ps Cs6, where I did not do much at all to the boiler house pic. The Clock tower I used levels locally, along with gamma adjustments to pull up shadows,also lowered dynamic range in levels .Used saturation on individual colours. Backed off contrast a bit also. Used selective colour (black to deepen the shadows) Smart sharpened 48% with a radius 0.3. Saved for web bicubic sharper.
    I do tend to treat every file on it's own merits Such as the boiler house needed very little processing as I got lucky with this one shot and the exposure was ok.
    Approaching the boiler house shot, I was wondering how the Merrill would cope with low light, longish exposure. Have to say I was impressed.
    Thank you very much.

    I really like the character the "boiler house" has, and I can understand you did not do much.


    Perhaps this Merrills are very good at long exposures ?

    Only tryed it once, also tripod - 2,5 seconds - f. 4.0+ 0,3 exp.com (this is DP2M)




  38. #488
    Senior Member Malina DZ's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma DP3M

    "Boiler House" image is impressive, it has the signature look of the Merrills.

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    Re: Sigma DP3M

    I know shooting Raw does give a lot of leeway after for processing. In my experience though to get exposure and WB spot on at the time makes for a decent starting point and if composition and all are ok it is always treat to open a file like that. I think this was so with the boiler shot, and a bit of luck played there.
    Also, even though the light was low it was natural window light, through dirty panes of glass which defused the light well.

  40. #490
    Senior Member Hulyss Bowman's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma DP3M

    Happy foveon new year guys

    Sisters -

    Kind regards - Hulyss - hulyssbowman.com
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  41. #491
    Senior Member Hulyss Bowman's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma DP3M

    You are my every thing ! @ 1000 ISO

    Kind regards - Hulyss - hulyssbowman.com
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  42. #492
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    Re: Sigma DP3M

    Well, you've inspired me to get a DP3M, which is on its way- thanks for your images and thoughts!

    I've read the thread, the LuLa article, etc. Good stuff!

    In terms of sdhc cards, does the DP3M have any "preferences" you've discovered in terms of write speed, or will something like a SanDisk class 10 with a write speed of around 40-45 be as good as it gets? I know it's not a speed demon, but am not photographing sports

    And spare batteries- do I recall correctly that Ricohs of some type work well? Or are there better options?

    Thanks,

    Rick

  43. #493
    Senior Member Hulyss Bowman's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma DP3M

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger Rick View Post
    Well, you've inspired me to get a DP3M, which is on its way- thanks for your images and thoughts!

    I've read the thread, the LuLa article, etc. Good stuff!

    In terms of sdhc cards, does the DP3M have any "preferences" you've discovered in terms of write speed, or will something like a SanDisk class 10 with a write speed of around 40-45 be as good as it gets? I know it's not a speed demon, but am not photographing sports

    And spare batteries- do I recall correctly that Ricohs of some type work well? Or are there better options?

    Thanks,

    Rick
    Thanks Rick.

    For the SD card, I didn't tested many. I bought asap a Sandisk extrem pro 95Mo/s but it is a bit slow to record. Bear in mind that you can take 7 pictures, full rez (RAW), in a burst.

    For the batteries, better way to stay in the brand, I do pretty well with 4. The two you have in the box and 2 spare.

    Hope this help
    Kind regards - Hulyss - hulyssbowman.com
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  44. #494
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    Re: Sigma DP3M

    Thank you, Hulyss- just what I was looking for.

    Rick

  45. #495
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    Re: Sigma DP3M

    The Ricoh batteries are identical, just branded differently and work perfectly.

    Don't forget the card speed will also affect your downloading images off of it.
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  46. #496
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    Re: Sigma DP3M

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim View Post
    I bought a DP2M.

    Now I am wondering about a DP1M DP3M combo - 75mm / 28mm ?
    Hi Tim

    That's dangerously close to the 28/85 combo which is just about perfect for landscape.

  47. #497
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    Re: Sigma DP3M

    Tried some action shots with the DP3M.


    _SDI0471 by El Sauza, on Flickr


    _SDI0472 by El Sauza, on Flickr

  48. #498
    Senior Member Malina DZ's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma DP3M

    Quote Originally Posted by Sauza View Post
    Tried some action shots with the DP3M.
    Faster shutter speed would make the shots way crispier than the iso100.
    It's obvious, DPMs aren't meant for action photography. Landscapes, architecture and still life is where they shine, and your shots, Sausa, are a good example.
    Why didn't Sigma make DPM3 with an f/1.4? It would sell way better.
    Foveon needs all available light it can gather to maintain its supremacy over Bayer in color shots at iso100-320 and hand-held shutter speeds.

  49. #499
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    Re: Sigma DP3M

    Quote Originally Posted by Malina DZ View Post
    Faster shutter speed would make the shots way crispier than the iso100.
    It's obvious, DPMs aren't meant for action photography. Landscapes, architecture and still life is where they shine, and your shots, Sausa, are a good example.
    Why didn't Sigma make DPM3 with an f/1.4? It would sell way better.
    Foveon needs all available light it can gather to maintain its supremacy over Bayer in color shots at iso100-320 and hand-held shutter speeds.
    Indeed that would have helped. But to be honest, I seldomly change the ISO of the Merrill, so I somehow forgot about that it has this function.

  50. #500
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    Re: Sigma DP3M

    Nice portrait Hulyss.

    Three shots coming into the new year . Still enjoying the DP3 a lot and it is the camera in use almost all the time at the moment. I can see the attraction of the Merrils and would like to add the DP2 and some point.


    PENTEWAN by JuliandeCourcy, on Flickr



    ST.AGNES by JuliandeCourcy, on Flickr



    ST.AGNES by JuliandeCourcy, on Flickr
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