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New Sigma DP Merrill's?

Tim

Active member
I'm excited. I own the DP3 Merrill and was about to buy the DP2 when and if the prices dropped a bit. Well, now I can wait for the Quatro. Why? We know the lens is great . . . it's the same lens. The lens should be designed for the Foveon sensor. Here's what looks new to me. If the image quality is 30% better (forget using MP's), then it will have higher resolution than the current Nikon D800. Why? It already close to the resolution of the D800. Second, this may be the second best b&w camera after the Leica MM. Why? The improvement is in the blue channel for luminance. Converting to b&w in the the new SP raw converter will optimize the quality of b&w. This is already true for the DP2/3 Merrills which produce great b&w images. Third, processing should be much faster now. I noticed on my dp3 merrill that the writing speed to the new, ultra fast cards only takes a second or so, but the preliminary image processing is what is slowing down the transfer. So, it should be much faster now. Fourth, the battery should be larger and last longer. Fifth, well high ISO levels remains an unknown. Sixth, economics. Look closely at the photo. Pure design "outside the box." Literally and so quite innovative. Look again and take away the grip and battery on the right hand side. Looks the same as the original dp merrill but thinner. And then someone said, let's just add a battery and grip on the right hands side! Look at the specs: it's lighter than the dp3 merrill. You can wear it around your neck with another camera. Finally, with the 1 and 2 lenses, it looks like it really could fit into a jacket pocket. Post finally, the tripod sits squarely under the middle of the lens. Adds up well. But it will attract attention for a while, won't it?
You bring some very interesting points. One small change is the DP2M had a 49mm filter, the DP2Q looks to have 58mm, so I wonder if there may be a tweak to the lens requiring the bigger filter size?

I hear you on the BW. A lot of people ask for a pure BW Ricoh GR for example. Using the Blue channel here may yield a interesting result. As for the body, I like the way they have reduced the body to be thin ala a Nex, leaving room for the battery in the grip. The design has warmed on me a lot. I'd like to see it next to something common as a size reference. I think they will be small cameras.
 

The Ute

Well-known member
I was considering / about to add another Merrill body - the DP3M. Now I think I will wait to see samples, and the price of both Quattro and Merrill (discounts) before making a decision.

I may even now consider the DP1Q, but a lot depends on specs of lens.

To save my fingers could we refer to them as DP2, DP2M, DP2Q etc ?

Over the years I find myself using the DP1M more than the 2. Even though the image quality of the 2 is better overall IMO.

I am primarily a landscape shooter and I have generally found that the WA
work better for me.

I would actually like to see a Sigma with an even wider lens.

;)
 

The Ute

Well-known member
I'm not crazy about the new thin elongated look.

I added a "Franiec" grip to mine and they are very easy to use that way.

The jury is out on the new ones.
 

Malina DZ

Member
The sensor chip does not appear to embody any improved electronics nor semiconductor fabrication. It trades away color resolution for less noise, a design choice that you may or may not like when you see results. Foveon technology has stalled or reached its end.
I see it the same way.
The new 3-layer graph is a little confusing to me as well as the Quattro title without knowing the pixel pitch/pixel size of the R & G layers. On one hand, B layer area is 4 times larger than R or G layer pixel count wise, on the other, each layer has identical area coverage (23.5x15.7mm).
I was loooking forward to Sigma's new processor cure of green/magenta color artifacts in shadows but not at the expense of R & G layer size. Hopefully, new Quattros don't lose the color detail DP Ms are famous for at iso100-200. Otherwise, I don't understand who Sigma targets these new models for? Glad the prices are going down for DP Ms though, and very excited about 50/1.4 Art.
 

ChrisSearle

New member
Well this new design certainly seems to be polarising opinion, lots of haters over at FM, however I think the design looks fresh and interesting and was going to hold off completing my set with a DP1M until I saw the price mentioned above, Now I'm not sure what to do!
 

The Ute

Well-known member
I really do not like the design but it could look like a turd in a punchbowl as long as it performs well and the price is reasonable.

;)
 

scho

Well-known member
Reminds me of the PureView technology in my 41 MP Nokia 1020 cell phone camera. I assume they are using similar processing or up-sampling approach.
 

darr

Well-known member
This is excellent news as I own all three of the DPM models and have been trying to teach myself away from medium format through them. The one thing that is missing is the EVF. Maybe the next generation. :banghead:
 

Quentin_Bargate

Well-known member
So to review where we are (rounded numbers):

Old Foveon: 15 + 15 + 15 mp = circa 45mp

New sensor: 20 + 5 + 5mp = circa 30mp

What I am not sure about is how much influence the blue (20mp) layer will have with predominantly red or green images. One of the problems with mosaic (Bayer) sensors is the relative lack of red pixels. With the revised "Foveon" design, are we not looking at the exact same problem?

Once one moves away from the pure foveon RGB design, I can see issues with interpolation and possibly with aliasing etc.

In short, I don't see how this can be described as higher resolution sensor when the total number of pixels across the three layers is lower.
 

mmbma

Active member
i'm getting ready to sell my leica Ms for these!!!! I love sigma DP1&2ms. they were just ultimately too slow. I think the design is very sexy too.
 

raist3d

Well-known member
So to review where we are (rounded numbers):

Old Foveon: 15 + 15 + 15 mp = circa 45mp

New sensor: 20 + 5 + 5mp = circa 30mp

What I am not sure about is how much influence the blue (20mp) layer will have with predominantly red or green images. One of the problems with mosaic (Bayer) sensors is the relative lack of red pixels. With the revised "Foveon" design, are we not looking at the exact same problem?
Correct but I would call it a "similar problem." The sigma Quattro still has the advantage of not having a grid with holes in color like CfA sensors, but yes- you are correct there will be cases the full resolution for color won't be quite realized.
And some interpolation is now required.

This is why I say this design is no longer really x3 foveon. That said there is one nice surprise hidden in the specs- the small raw format.

I missed it and a kind soul pointed it out to me elsewhere- the dp2 Quattro can capture a 4.9 megapixel raw shot. In that mode its a true x3 foveon color capture and this time with a 4x sampled "blue layer" which may improve iq even a bit further.

I am excited about this mode because it means you could use it for high iso and keep better color/slightly better DR, etc along with less ram storage in the memory card and possibly speeding up saving images to the sd card.

Once one moves away from the pure foveon RGB design, I can see issues with interpolation and possibly with aliasing etc.

In short, I don't see how this can be described as higher resolution sensor when the total number of pixels across the three layers is lower.
I agree on paper. In reality because the Merrill sensor has so much noise and the issue that diffraction presents by the time you hit the red layer, this sensor may very well realize in real world implementation a higher resolution or about same with potential iso gains. But its true it is a set of pros and cons like all engineering designs in the world and will have its own quirks.

This is why I said it will require interpolation at 19.6 mp to get color and yes, it's not a true foveon x3 design that way.

- Ricardo
 

biglouis

Well-known member
Bravo, Sigma for being one of the most innovative camera and lens manufacturers in existence!

Well done for not only staying faithful to Foveon but also evolving it, even in the face of critics most of whom are ignorant of the virtues of these unique cameras.

I only have two questions:

1. How much?
2. When?

I'll definitely try to give a home to the DPq1 as it is the only focal length I don't have in the DPm range. But I'll probably crack before then and get the DPq2.

What can I say? I'm a Merrill addict!

LouisB
 
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