First real review of the DPQ2

[G43]

Now it really came down to the IQ between M and Q ... I sincerely wonder what much more we seem to be gifted with the new generation Q?

diglloyd: Pixel for Pixel, *Nothing* Beats a Sigma DP Merrill

Coming back home from a Ming Thein's WS in London, I just had some fun with an A7R in Heathrow airport. Think I would not be able to bond to this camera really. Feels clunky compared to my present EM1.. and really also to my a few months ago former 6D workhorse. Not relevant in this thread, just wished to mention.

If bulk gear is no obstacle, I saw live on stage Ming processing his Pentax 645Z/SDM lenses images and the outcome wipes the floor of any Sigma camera. It makes you tremble of quality enjoyments on Retina screens and I have to see one day super prints from such rich files.
Not my way to get the best files for prints. I cannot carry such a monster camera... due to age. But I can get something stunning enough by the DPMs. I am now looking where to buy an Epson 9900.

But I can carry DP1M, 2 and 3 covering the focal lengths I normally use. Important when youth was a pastense and aging a future

I give less credit to accurate colors, It's not a criteria important making outstanding images, but merely just some math of the ideal.

Pictures on the wall speaks their unique language.

 

[Hulyss Bowman]

A review of the DP2Q.

As we say : All is in the image

http://outlivingblog.wordpress.com/...uattro-and-comparison-with-merrill/#more-1251

 

[G43]

I agree to the conclusion in the review.

Thanks for posting this HB.

 

[Quentin_Bargate]

Looks like the Quattro may have a fatal flaw, as reported (in English) on the Sigma rumours website The Quattro and the "Beer Garden" Issue

I have seen a similar issue with a red sign in the Thames shot I posted in the Shots thread.

Possibly this might be caused by the difference in resolution between the top and bottom two layers. There is no luminance difference between the blue and yellow that can be detected by the top layer. If the top layer does not detect the edge, then you are left with the low resolution bottom layers.

If this cannot be corrected in firmware or SPP, its probably game over for the Quattro as a serious photographic tool.

 

[G43]

Ouchh ...

 

[Quentin_Bargate]

If the detail has not been captured by the top layer, its gone, never to return .

If this is the correct analysis, then the entire Quattro concept is, sadly, surely doomed.

and I was just getting to like the DP2Q :shocked:

 

[G43]

This is sad Quentin. Are sure of there's no cure to it?

I am just wondering how Sigma could launch a camera where texture becomes invisible. Like the test team consisted of blind people?

 

[G43]

I am sure at this point owners and potential buyers feels themselves sort of let down. We expected sooo much of the new Foveon sensor. We hoped it would show the same smack detail as the Merrills. We hoped the Merrills flaws would be gone. We hoped the camera to be more versatile in usage but it just got faster.
IMO Sigma laid out a truly new set of oddness to an odd design. What is then left to like?

The marketing drums though left us unable to breath for quite a period.

 

[Quentin_Bargate]

Well the first thing you need from a camera is predictable behaviour. In a DP2Q image (if the issue cannot be corrected in firmware or SPP), you may never know when the system will break down and fail to resolve detail in a particular part of a scene because there is insufficient luminance info captured by the top layer.

I have seen a breakdown in my Thames image. The Marriott sign was not properly resolved. That was dark red on a dark background. So the issue may not be confined to yellow on blue, as in the sample on the Rumours site. Note the Merrill image shown on the Rumours site does not suffer from the problem.

 

[adsf]

This is sad Quentin. Are sure of there's no cure to it?

I am just wondering how Sigma could launch a camera where texture becomes invisible. Like the test team consisted of blind people?

If its really because of the lack of brightness contrast, that the top layer cannot (i mean "can only") see, there is no cure (if its strictly one color per layer)

 

[Quentin_Bargate]

If its really because of the lack of brightness contrast, that the top layer cannot see, there is no cure (if its strictly one color per layer)

Absent a solution, it is surely the end of the Quattro technology in serious photography. So I hope there is a solution.

Think about it. The whole rationale of Foveon, the reason for its appeal, is greater accuracy and a lack of colour aliasing artefacts. This was achieved by stacking RGB layers, each with the same number of pixels. It worked superbly in the Merill series. I have thousands of shots to prove it.

The Quattro design, by contrast, is a compromise, introduced for cost and processing reasons. If the new design replaces Bayer sensor problems with a new set of issues, then the appeal is lost. Worse, if the new problems are unpredictable, then there is no way to plan for them.

Perhaps I am being melodramatic. Maybe there is a solution. But as a fan of the Merrill, and a potential fan of the Quattro, its a depressing situation.

 

[Kofronj]

Again, while not an ideal situation---I'd point out that this is early days for the sensor and software combination. Having said that, it's always good form to contact Sigma/Foveon with examples of problems, and give them the feedback directly. And there's nothing in the book that says Sigma can't go with a next gen sensor that's the same design as the 'traditional' X3 sensor (like the Merrill).

Jim

 

[foveon]

So we are the Beta testers for Sigma?

 

[G43]

I would say definitely yes. Beta testers. How in Heavens name did the sensor/FW or what else pass QA in Sigma?
It is truly a sad story even it can be fixed.
My wish is the Merrill Foveon sensor were given to a real camera manufacturer and sure much more would come out of it.

Beware Canon working at full power launching their Foveon sensor based camera.

 

[Kofronj]

G43:

Hah. Canon has been rumored to be working at this for the last 10 years. Nada. All the major players had an opportunity to buy Foveon (or use the sensors)... none did so other than Sigma. Sigma's the only company that's had the willingness to invest and put the effort into it.

You can certainly complain all you want about being beta testers---it just tells me that you're late coming into the Sigma camera family (I started with an SD10). But in reality, lots of cameras get released with bugs in firmware or hardware (or software) that get sorted out later. Nikon, Canon, Pentax, Ricoh, Leica---they've all done this to some extent.

Do I wish they did hardware/software rollouts better? Sure... But this is not atypical for a smaller outfit that is resource constrained... And in the US, you can test one out for yourself without buying.

Jim

 

[G43]

Yeah... I've heard Canon blabber a great deal about their Foveon. Blabbering of course doesn't help much neither we know anything on how it performs. But surely not good enough yet, otherwise I should say we've seen it in the market. Companies like Canon probably have some headache seeing Sony spitting one brilliant sensor out after the other.

I am very late entering the Sigma camera world, but not their lens world of which Sigmas ART series rivals.
I owned Canon 5D and 6D the later years. Flawless cameras as from the beginning with only minor bugs. Neither my EM1 had serious bugs, but got a few useful additional features added.
The only flawed camera I owned the later years was a Fuji X100. That sucked in the beginning due to lack of focus track in general. It was fixed after the third FW update.

I just think it is unusual a camera misses to record colors and even textures in the red channel.
I am really not complaining but rather expressing my disappointment. I had the DP2Q order and paid and while waiting I started to see what I do not like to see. Order cancelled and money returned

Being a DP123M owner now (haven't arrived yet) will not lead to disappointments in any way. The strengths and weaknesses has been described so thoroughly on the internet.

 

[foveon]

.......Being a DP123M owner now (haven't arrived yet) will not lead to disappointments in any way....

We make a bet?:toocool:
At least you will be surprised here and there.
But all in all a wise decision to get the Merrills,

 

[raist3d]

Looks like the Quattro may have a fatal flaw, as reported (in English) on the Sigma rumours website The Quattro and the "Beer Garden" Issue

This makes a lot of sense. Yellow uses red and green - mainly the two layers the Quattro has in 1/4th the resolution of a traditional X3 design.

That said, Sigma can improve the algorithms to try to improve on this, but it is certainly one of the tradeoffs of the Quattro design.

- Ricardo

 

[G43]

We make a bet?:toocool:
At least you will be surprised here and there.
But all in all a wise decision to get the Merrills,

Hehe.. yes let's have a small bet I am not sure I should encounter any worse problem than already described by the many owners.
The Merrills are not a replacement of my present camera system that's insane responsive. Merrills are for fine art photography and landscapes basically.

 

[G43]

Sigma dp2 Quattro: We post our first batch of real-world gallery images (including RAW conversions)

Oh boy.. more low level testing.