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Goodbye Sigma Merrills?

biglouis

Well-known member
A post by Quentin in the Sony forum closely mirrors my thoughts about whether it is worth keeping my Sigma Merrill cameras.

A good photographer friend of mine once made the point that multiple camera systems lead to confusion, e.g. which camera for which subject/job etc. I agree with him and have tried to limit myself to two systems max at any one time.

Currently I have a Sony A7R, A7S, the Ricoh GR and a DP2M and DP3M. I also have a Panasonic GH-2 and a 100-300 which I keep solely for the benefits of that lens.

Since acquiring the Sony system I have barely touched the Sigmas whereas I still regularly use my Ricoh GR. The reason being that there is a lot of overlap between the Sony and Sigma systems. I told myself at the beginning of owning the Sony system that I would continue to use my Sigmas. But the truth is, each time I go out to shoot intentionally a subject I pack up my Sony system and leave the Sigmas behind.

There are two reasons. Firstly, convenience. The Sonys are very convenient to use. The EVF is a dream and the tilting LCD is also very useful. I often find myself using the tilting screen with the Hoodman Loupe I purchased specifically to use with my Sigmas! The tilting screen and loupe allows for a convenient height for tripod shots and a working method which is very similar to my former Hasselblad (which I sold for weight issues).

A lovely shot of the interior of Greenstead Church, DP2M


Sony A7+CVUltron 21/1.4 - the convenience of the Sony is the interchangeable lens system.


Secondly, the image quality while not as good as the Sigmas at the pixel level is more attractive in terms of colouration and the dynamic range of the sensors is as good as the Sigmas, imho. I get more attractive looking photographs straight out of the camera - whereas with the Sigmas I am always fiddling in SPP or LR (after exporting as TIFFs) to get what I want.

The incredible low-light capability of the A7S - something a DPxM will never be able to match


For unintentional shooting, when I am wandering about the east end on my way to work, the little Ricoh is so convenient. I put it into TAV mode (fixed speed, fixed aperture, floating ISO) and snap away - sometimes using the external viewfinder, sometimes not. I can't quite put my finger on why I don't just grab the DP2M but I suspect it is because the 28mm lens on the Ricoh is very forgiving and the 16mp sensor (without anti aliasing filter) is very croppable.

One of my favourite early morning photographs in Spitalfields, Ricoh GR


I am not one to leave a camera on the shelf just in case I might use it. Having got good use out of the bodies and seeing some of the prices even s/h Merrills get on ebay I'd rather contribute the remaining capital in the cameras towards other equipment, or possibly another camera (e.g. the A7RII).

I really feel Sigma has not lived up to the promise of these cameras in the new product line of Quattros. The body alone leaves me cold. What we all want is simple. A Sigma CSC with EVF. I do not care if the sensor is APC or full frame. I doubt we will ever get this. Lens manufacture and sales are where Sigma earns its nut not in camera sales.

One of my favourite captures from the DP2M - the poignant 'Sheffield Memorial Park' on the Somme battlefied in northern France.


The Sigmas have been an extraordinary experience - and for me the experience has been worthwhile. Working with the Sigmas by definition has made me work on a tripod and compose shots carefully. But I am now transferring the exact same method to working with my A7R/S when shooting landscape. I still believe that if you cannot afford a Leica M9/240 and the 75mm APO then you can get as fine a result with the DP3M. But then I can also say the same thing about a Sony A7R/S and the excellent CZ 55/1.8 which easily rivals the captures from the Leica 50/1.4 Summilux I used to own. And likewise using the Sonys with the Loxia 2/35.

It is the wrong time of the year to sell kit (this I have learned from being an eBay member for 15 years) but I don't think I'll have these cameras beyond the next few months.
 

darr

Well-known member
After I acquired a SD1M, my DPx Merrills have not gotten much use. For me it is the interchangeable lenses and viewfinder that makes the SD1M more useable. It is a great thing when you can find a camera system that motivates usage. Good luck with your decision Louis and I will miss your Sigma postings for sure.

Kind regards,
Darr
 

adrewdecourcy

New member
Have not seen the post by Quentin Louis, must try to read when I have some time.

I can understand your thinking and having seen what the capability of the Foveon sensor are, having enjoyed them very much and still will as I'll not sell or give them away any time soon, I do have a fondness for their uniqueness, a few years from now I am sure I bring them out. As and like at one time the Aussies conquered all before them with the bat and ball, it seems even they today have had their day, or aught I say not a whole morning :D having had such enjoyment and am still astounded of the output from the Merrill's, I am no longer as forgiving with the quirks as I once was or wish to process at the computer like I have in the past.
There is I see, a lot going for the availability of all the A7r's Mint- at £999 onto the second hand market. Superb value if you have a couple of suitable lenses of your favoured focal length.
 

retow

Member
The Merrills still occupy the sweet spot of MF quality in a light weight jacket pocket size camera, at least the DP1M and DP2M. I got a A7rII about a week ago and for photo trips it will replace a trio of Merrills. I might sell the DP3M as it is the most demanding of the three and keep the other two. And as outstanding as the A7rII is, it can`t touch an aging Merrill in its comfort zone.
 

Andrew Lamb

New member
The Merrills still occupy the sweet spot of MF quality in a light weight jacket pocket size camera, at least the DP1M and DP2M. I got a A7rII about a week ago and for photo trips it will replace a trio of Merrills. I might sell the DP3M as it is the most demanding of the three and keep the other two. And as outstanding as the A7rII is, it can`t touch an aging Merrill in its comfort zone.
Seconded.
 

xpatUSA

Member
After I acquired a SD1M, my DPx Merrills have not gotten much use. For me it is the interchangeable lenses and viewfinder that makes the SD1M more useable.
I started with the original SD9 and "progressed" upward thru SD10 then SD14 and finally got a DP2M. Didn't like it at all compared to the DSLR's. Sold it pretty quick and got a SD1M with kit 17-50mm. Much better but SPP 5.5.3 was so slow that I sold the SD1M on and reverted to SPP 3.5.2.

Now I have a much faster 64bit Windows computer so, once again, I bought a brand-new SD1M. Started shooting full spectrum with it in LO res., keeping the SD14 for other stuff and a DP1s for occasional pocket camera work.

I'll be sticking with these three disparate Sigmas and using Wife's LX7 should I feel the need.

rgds,

Ted
 
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adrewdecourcy

New member
I started with the original SD9 and "progressed" upward thru SD10 then SD14 and finally got a DP2M. Didn't like it at all compared to the DSLR's. Sold it pretty quick and got a SD1M with kit 15-50mm. Much better but SPP 5.5.3 was so slow that I sold the SD1M on.

Now I have a much faster 64bit Windows computer so, once again, I bought a brand-new SD1M. Started shooting full spectrum with it in LO res., keeping the SD14 for other stuff and a DP1s for occasional pocket camera work.

I'll be sticking with these three disparate Sigmas and using Wife's LX7 should I feel the need.

rgds,

Ted
It did for myself make a vast difference on upgrading the Pc from an off the shelf quad core albeit a decent machine in it's day, to a home build 6 core cpu and decent sever board with SSD to run the programs from. Makes using a SPP not such a pleasure as LR or Cs6 but very close in speed.

Having legs that don't function at all to get about and with a preference to using crutches over the wheel chair for photography, I'll put up with the handling of the Merrill's. The odd thing is after using them and the LCD screen, which used to pee me off, I no longer ever have a problem seeing the screen image one is about to take, even on bright days. There's evolution in our own time for you.
 

Andrew Lamb

New member
It did for myself make a vast difference on upgrading the Pc from an off the shelf quad core albeit a decent machine in it's day, to a home build 6 core cpu and decent sever board with SSD to run the programs from. Makes using a SPP not such a pleasure as LR or Cs6 but very close in speed.

Having legs that don't function at all to get about and with a preference to using crutches over the wheel chair for photography, I'll put up with the handling of the Merrill's. The odd thing is after using them and the LCD screen, which used to pee me off, I no longer ever have a problem seeing the screen image one is about to take, even on bright days. There's evolution in our own time for you.
This chimes in with my feelings about the DP2M. I'm only too aware of the camera's failings but, to my surprise, I've found a way to work around them. It's a small, lightweight camera, which cost £300 new, and it's capable of nice results. What's not to like?
 

peterb

Member
Ironically, after a bit of a hiatus, I've decided to 'double down' on my DP2 Merrill usage.

Two years ago I got the itch to go FF and bought the Canon 6D with the fantastic Sigma 35mm F1.4 Art--truly a spectacular lens. I also purchased the Canon 50mm f1.2 bokeh master. That kit was great and produced great images.

For a while the Sigma remained in a drawer while I went out and about with the Canon. But I kept thinking about how much I just wanted a 'simple', compact camera that I could go out and about with that would yield stellar images without the 'bulk' (even though the Canon is somewhat un-bulky for a FF (although not nearly as small as Sony's A7 series and its luscious Zeiss glass!). So I found myself reaching for the the DP2M more and more and less so the Canon using it in situations for <<400 ISO for color and up to ISO 4000 in BW (the SPP's ability to pull data only from the blue channel along with the 'grain size' and 'random grain' features allowed for some truly film-like images. As for IQ...the 15mp APS-C Foveon is more than up to taking on Canon's 20 mp FF shots.

While I agree with Louis' observation that the DR can be a bit limiting and that detail can sometimes be TOO much, I've come to accept many limitations like its AF and Sigma's SPP software where I've experimented with tweaking the luminance so human skin doesn't have so much detail that subjects freak out when they see the final and surprisingly good BW images taken at ISO as high as 4000 with a romantic film-like quality that allow for use in low light situations that one might not have considered.

This week, I've found a whole new world in flash photography having bought Sigma's lesser expensive EF-610 DG ST Flash with its clever bounce and diffuser for TTL perfection with the DP2M.

After checking the flash contact pattern on the Canon I also got a Vello off camera synch cord to use with it. Result? PERFECT contact and TTL perfection.

Next I got Vello's (4" x 3.5") Mini 'soft box' to use with it either on a table tripod, mounted on Vello's Mini Folding Bracket or held off camera with the Vello Cord (mentioned above) for off-camera lighting that seems to work rather well too along with Lumiquest's 10 x 14" Softbox LTp which is seems to work well for small still lifes and single portrait work in the field. Or mounted on a portable flash stand from Impact ($20).

I can put everything (except for the flash stand) into a compact 11" computer back backpack I use to take the 11" MacBook Air. The pack has more than enough room for brackets, soft boxes and the like for going about taking shots with flash when I want color or without flash when the higher ISO BW works just fine. (TTL will also trigger a better AF assist if needed.)

I am getting a Vello radio flash trigger to set up the flash at a greater distance as well as fire off a larger studio flash should the need call for it.

Despite the failings of this camera along with its glacially slow processing software I find myself drawn to making it work no matter what I have to be subjected to (I guess I'm a masochist at heart). The AF/AEL makes for good pre-focus for anticipated shots. And I simply make adjustments to work with all the camera's other limitations. Do I wish it were better? Absolutely. But for the moment I'm content with a camera that can provide me with images few can match in terms of sheer drop dead quality.

But...that said...while the DP2M is my first choice when I go out, I accept the fact that are times when I might long for a more responsive, compact camera I can tote along with the DP2M that can provide quicker AF, a good detailed EVF, and good low light capability with a very sharp, lens. So I just purchased the Leica DLux with a grip (that I felt would provide a better balance than the Lumix version with its built-in grip) for those situations. (The ability to shoot 4K clips isn't too bad either!)

The new Q is a consideration down the road. The Q's responsiveness and lack of AA (like the DP2M) along with the FOV of the 28mm lens and the good AF and stellar EVF is quite something. (The Ricoh is a great alternative but if I'm going to go for it, I might as well go for it!)

Meanwhile, the Canon gear is off to Ebay.
 

biglouis

Well-known member
Some very compelling responses and reasons to keep at least the DP2M.

I am afraid that for macro, for which I bought the DP3M, my new FE 90/2.8 Macro aces the DP3M.

Maybe I'll sell that and keep the DP2M.

Decisions, decisions!

Thanks again

LouisB
 

Quentin_Bargate

Well-known member
Well, although I am a huge fan of the new Sony A7RII, I don't think I will wholly disavow the Merrills. I will find place for at least a DP2M in my camera bag.
 

peterb

Member
Well, although I am a huge fan of the new Sony A7RII, I don't think I will wholly disavow the Merrills. I will find place for at least a DP2M in my camera bag.
Quentin, like so many others here, I was smitten with the DP2 Merrill from the very first jaw-dropping image you posted. And as a result, I am forever grateful for you making me aware of this wonderful camera though your fantastic images.

And...while I may have turned away for short periods of time to re-gather my wherewithal to take on camera's shortcomings and idiosyncrasies along with the infuriating SPP software, I too will never, ever relinquish it. In fact my whole experience with this camera can be summed up in the advertising tagline here in America for The North Face: "Never stop exploring."

To Louis, I KNEW IT! HA! Seriously, the cameras you possess are stellar as are the results you've attained with them that I've admired on these threads but I have to tell you, the images you've created with the Sigma DP2M that I've seen have been in a class by themselves. :)

Best, Peter
 

xpatUSA

Member
Some very compelling responses and reasons to keep at least the DP2M.

I am afraid that for macro, for which I bought the DP3M, my new FE 90/2.8 Macro aces the DP3M.

Maybe I'll sell that and keep the DP2M.

Decisions, decisions!

Thanks again

LouisB
I sold my DP2M in haste based on the horrible experience of using SPP 5.5.3 on a Windows XP machine (now used as a backup only). If I were in your shoes, I'd keep the DP2M in preference to DP1M, DP3M or any Quattro.

Welcome back, Quentin ;)
 

Quentin_Bargate

Well-known member
15 August will be the 3rd anniversary of the start of the DP2m images thread on these forums. A great 3 years I say, with an abundance of super images from so many top photographers ( i.e. You lot!) Hopefully many more to come.

I also used the DP2M and DP1M almost exclusively for my panel for my application for the Associateship of the Royal Photographic Society, which was pretty insane given the alternatives I had available, including Hassy H5D 50mp digital :thumbup: Turned out well, so good choice :eek:
 
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peterb

Member
Some very compelling responses and reasons to keep at least the DP2M.

I am afraid that for macro, for which I bought the DP3M, my new FE 90/2.8 Macro aces the DP3M.

Maybe I'll sell that and keep the DP2M.

Decisions, decisions!

Thanks again

LouisB
Louis, when I purchased the DP2M I also bought Sigma's close-up lens attachment (http://www.sigmaphoto.com/product/close-up-lens-aml-2-for-the-dp2-merrill-camera) that you screw onto the main lens. I found it to be an extraordinary optic.

In short, you won't miss the DP3M. :)

Peter
 

Andrew Lamb

New member
Some very compelling responses and reasons to keep at least the DP2M.

I am afraid that for macro, for which I bought the DP3M, my new FE 90/2.8 Macro aces the DP3M.

Maybe I'll sell that and keep the DP2M.

Decisions, decisions!

Thanks again

LouisB
Selling the others and keeping the DP2M sounds like a good compromise to me. Do you remember that ad for the Victoria & Albert? It's an ace cafe with quite a nice museum attached? That's like the DP2M. It's got an ace lens with quite a nice sensor attached.
 

apsphoto

New member
Why not just keep them all? They are small and when suddenly you have a Foveon urge you can fill it. They are small, don't take a lot of space and it is not like you are going to be able to sell them for a lot, so I would just keep them. :)

Alan
 
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