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Thread: Sigma sd Quattro Images

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    Sigma sd Quattro Images

    First walkabout with the new sd Quattro at the Cornell Arboretum. Lens used was the Sigma 18-35 A. All shots taken on a tripod. SPP 6.40 processing. Harsh, contrasty early afternoon lighting. Used SFD mode for the last image and processed as x3f, S-Hi.





    Last edited by scho; 7th August 2016 at 09:26.
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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro Images

    A couple of countertop still life shots taken with the sdQ + 18-35. Very dim lighting and the second monochrome taken in almost complete darkness using SFD mode and S-Hi size. The 7 exposures ranged form about 0.5 sec to 30 sec at f/8.



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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro Images

    A quick hand held snap using the Sigma 70mm f/2.8 Macro on the sdQ. Will do some more with this lens on a tripod later. AF is not reliable and would need some unwanted calibration, so I will just use it in MF mode which is very good with the LV, peaking, and magnification available on the sdQ.

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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro Images

    Carl, thank you for sharing these full size JPGs. Are you happy with the IQ SDQ provides?

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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro Images

    Quote Originally Posted by Malina DZ View Post
    Carl, thank you for sharing these full size JPGs. Are you happy with the IQ SDQ provides?
    Malina,

    I don't know yet as I'm still in learning mode with this camera.

    Carl
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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro Images

    Persian Shield leaf with the 70mm f/2.8 Macro.



    Sugar maple catching a ray of light from the setting sun. 70mm f/2.8 Macro.

    Last edited by scho; 6th August 2016 at 17:21.
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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro Images

    A few garden flower shots with the sdQ + 70/2.8 Macro.





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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro Images

    A late evening shot using the 18-35/1.8 Art lens on the sdQ in SFD mode. The seven images were processed in SPP 6.4 and a S-Hi tif exported to LR for additional processing. Tonality is very smooth, low noise, with some slight decrease also in micro contrast. Click image for the 39 MP jpg.

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    Senior Member ggibson's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro Images

    Thanks for sharing. How's the handling, size and weight?
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/grahamgibson/
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    Senior Member biglouis's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro Images

    Thanks for posting these samples. Much to think about.

    LouisB

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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro Images

    Quote Originally Posted by ggibson View Post
    Thanks for sharing. How's the handling, size and weight?
    No question that this is a heavy (weight with my 18-35/1.8 is 1.68 kg) camera for a mirrorless, but handling is quite good. All controls are nicely placed and easily accessible with good, solid construction. Shutter noise is similar to my A7r, but better damped. I just received two extra Wasabi batteries and compact charger designed for the Panasonic GH4, that work perfectly with sdQ. AF performance is lens dependant, perfect with the 18-35/1.8 Art, but unreliable with the 70 macro. I'm still trying to work out best processing routines for the x3f and x3i raw files, but otherwise no major issues using SPP 6.40.
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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro Images

    Quote Originally Posted by scho View Post
    No question that this is a heavy (weight with my 18-35/1.8 is 1.68 kg) camera for a mirrorless, but handling is quite good. All controls are nicely placed and easily accessible with good, solid construction. Shutter noise is similar to my A7r, but better damped. I just received two extra Wasabi batteries and compact charger designed for the Panasonic GH4, that work perfectly with sdQ. AF performance is lens dependant, perfect with the 18-35/1.8 Art, but unreliable with the 70 macro. I'm still trying to work out best processing routines for the x3f and x3i raw files, but otherwise no major issues using SPP 6.40.
    Hi Carl

    Great stuff. Just wondering how the EVF compares to other cameras in your experience?

    Lee

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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro Images

    Quote Originally Posted by Sapphie View Post
    Hi Carl

    Great stuff. Just wondering how the EVF compares to other cameras in your experience?

    Lee
    Thanks Lee. The EVF is horrible and I would not use it for critical MF work. EVF is OK for framing and quick snapshot AF work but quality like first generation EVF and nowhere near the performance of recent Sony cams. The LCD is very good and works well with magnification and/or peaking for MF work.
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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro Images

    Ithaca falls the day after some heavy thunderstorms replenished our dwindling water flow in the streams.

    Taken in SFD mode , but quality of the composite was so bad I had to pull one of the better exposed frames for this image. Still a lot of artifacts and poor rendering. Seems like I can't get too far from still life shooting without running into image quality problems with this camera.

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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro Images

    LOL yikes, so I guess SFD is doing some processing akin to a pixel-shift mode. These modes are intriguing, but seem like they are really difficult to take advantage of outside of a studio or still life environment. The Pentax K1 and E-M5II have the same issues with any motion at all. I wonder if a slow shutter speed to smooth all of the water would have helped?

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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro Images

    Quote Originally Posted by ggibson View Post
    LOL yikes, so I guess SFD is doing some processing akin to a pixel-shift mode. These modes are intriguing, but seem like they are really difficult to take advantage of outside of a studio or still life environment. The Pentax K1 and E-M5II have the same issues with any motion at all. I wonder if a slow shutter speed to smooth all of the water would have helped?
    The artifacts look very reminiscent of the early Fuji X sensor demosaicing issues in ACR. Kendall H over at DPR thinks it might be a SPP 6.4 processing bug and so do I. Hopefully, Sigma will correct this in the next SPP release. Strange thing is that the artifacts are present also in the individual x3f files as well as the composite.
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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro Images

    Quote Originally Posted by scho View Post
    The artifacts look very reminiscent of the early Fuji X sensor demosaicing issues in ACR. Kendall H over at DPR thinks it might be a SPP 6.4 processing bug and so do I. Hopefully, Sigma will correct this in the next SPP release. Strange thing is that the artifacts are present also in the individual x3f files as well as the composite.
    OK, ignore all of above. There are some serious x3i processing issues here in SPP 6.4.0. After comparing the individual frame processing I finally realized that despite selecting one, unique frame for processing SPP continued to use multi frame processing. Despite claims that individual x3f shots from the 7 shot SFD series in the x3i file can be extracted I have not found a way of doing that. Unless you are shooting absolutely still subjects, using SFD is a total waste of time.

    Edit: Finally have a way of extracting x3f raw files from the 7 frames in the x3i SFD file. Need to first select the frame you want in the x3i edit window, click the copy x3f file button, then go back to the main file list window, paste and the x3f file is placed in the file list. Just as a trial exercise I extracted the 3 middle frames (-1, 0, +1) generated tiffs, and then composited the tiffs using Aurora HDR. Somewhat garish results, but at least no scatter of motion artifacts. Now I wait and see if Sigma can come up with a fix for SFD processing in SPP.

    Last edited by scho; 12th August 2016 at 20:57. Reason: add info and image
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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro Images

    Quote Originally Posted by scho View Post
    .. I extracted the 3 middle frames (-1, 0, +1) generated tiffs, and then composited the tiffs using Aurora HDR. Somewhat garish results, but at least no scatter of motion artifacts....
    so the 3 middle frames were taken at the same time?^^

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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro Images

    Quote Originally Posted by scho View Post
    Edit: Finally have a way of extracting x3f raw files from the 7 frames in the x3i SFD file.
    iso 100... and there is plenty of magenta and green pattern noise in shadow areas of this file. Do you have a single frame of this scene shot in a normal mode (not SFD)? Does it have as much pattern noise before lifting shadows?

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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro Images

    Quote Originally Posted by foveon View Post
    so the 3 middle frames were taken at the same time?^^
    They were all taken within SFD with whatever the lag time is between shots.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Malina DZ View Post
    iso 100... and there is plenty of magenta and green pattern noise in shadow areas of this file. Do you have a single frame of this scene shot in a normal mode (not SFD)? Does it have as much pattern noise before lifting shadows?
    The noise appeared after processing in Aurora. Unfortunately I did not take a shot in normal mode for this scene.
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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro Images

    Here is the result of using all 7 extracted files in Aurora.



    and for reference the 7 shot composite processed in SPP 6.4, complete with motion artifacts.



    and finally, one extracted file (#4, 0 EVF) from the SFD x3i

    Last edited by scho; 13th August 2016 at 08:11.
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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro Images

    Carl, is this a single frame shot? How much post processing did you do in SPP? I notice green/magenta pattern noise there without zooming into 100%.

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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro Images

    Quote Originally Posted by Malina DZ View Post
    Carl, is this a single frame shot? How much post processing did you do in SPP? I notice green/magenta pattern noise there without zooming into 100%.
    Yes, single x3f shot. Not much PP outside of SPP. I don't see any pronounced green/magenta noise looking at 100%. Most of the green is lichens and algae on the tree bark.
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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro Images

    Another long exposure SFD still life in low light. Processed from the 7 shot x3i file in SPP 6.4 and then quite a bit of adjustment in LR. These files can take a lot of abuse in post processing without generating too much noise.

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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro Images

    SFD mode and SPP have some bugs to iron out even for still life scenes. Check out highlights on the watermelon:

    Name:  highlights.JPG
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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro Images

    Quote Originally Posted by Malina DZ View Post
    SFD mode and SPP have some bugs to iron out even for still life scenes. Check out highlights on the watermelon:

    Name:  highlights.JPG
Views: 1483
Size:  29.7 KB
    That is not a bug. Human error on my part for exposing while light from window was changing. I could of corrected by excluding the frame with the burned out specular highlight in this OOF area when processing the x3i file. Here is the 4th frame with no problem.

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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro Images

    Thank you for sharing Carl. I appreciate you taking the time to share your findings with us readers.

    Kind regards.,
    Darr
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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro Images

    Wow, amazing to see the difference between a single frame and the combined image. The x3i version looks so clean by comparison.

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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro Images

    Quote Originally Posted by ggibson View Post
    Wow, amazing to see the difference between a single frame and the combined image. The x3i version looks so clean by comparison.
    Yes, you lose some microcontrast, but get an almost noise free image.
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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro Images

    Quote Originally Posted by scho View Post
    Yes, you lose some microcontrast, but get an almost noise free image.
    7 picture to make one picture Merrill like. Evolution. Darwin is actually drinking some more papa doble with Hemingway.
    Kind regards - Hulyss - hulyssbowman.com & LuSh

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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro Images

    A couple of sunflower shots with the sdQ+18-35 A.





    and just for fun, another shot of the same sunflowers with the mighty little Nokia 808

    Last edited by scho; 16th August 2016 at 13:00.
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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro Images

    I'm not trolling, I'm really not. But I have yet to see anything which really wows me.

    It is not the photography because the compositions are good.

    There is something lacking in the character of the images at 100%. And at normal size there is nothing that jumps out.

    I can only say that, for example, when I first saw Fuji Xpro shots, it was obvious this was something different. Likewise for the Ricoh GR. And, of course, the DP2M. So, it is not like I haven't seen samples and examples from respected cameras which jump off the page here at GetDPI.

    Sorry! I'll keep looking, though, and thanks for posting.

    LouisB

    PS I can see how the value proposition works because in theory at GBP 999 for the camera and art lens it is a bargain price.
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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro Images

    Quote Originally Posted by scho View Post
    A couple of sunflower shots with the sdQ+18-35 A.

    Nice impression of depth in the sunflower patch, I guess by focusing closer than the 'hyperfocal distance'? Nice and sharp at f/8.

    Heavy lens, I've read . .
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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro Images

    wow scho, nice comparison between the Quattro and the 808!

    The 808's optimum ISO is 64. Anything higher and full resolution image quality will suffer. That being said, the 808 does seem to resolve similar detail to the Quattro but the Quattro has the edge having the much cleaner and sharper image.

    I too have the Sigma A 18-35 1.8 in EF mount adapted to my E-M1 via Speed booster ultra. Absolutely love the rendition from this lens, and on the E-M1 it becomes a f1.2 for light gathering which allows for very low ISO shooting is low light!
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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro Images

    The Watkins Glen pier at the south end of Seneca Lake. sdQ + 18-35A. Sharpening -1 in SPP and no additional sharpening in LR. Starting to get oil spots on the sensor now from the shutter mechanism so I'll probably send the camera in for cleaning.

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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro Images

    Quote Originally Posted by scho View Post
    The Watkins Glen pier at the south end of Seneca Lake. sdQ + 18-35A. Sharpening -1 in SPP and no additional sharpening in LR. Starting to get oil spots on the sensor now from the shutter mechanism so I'll probably send the camera in for cleaning.

    Nice schooner! Well, I think it's a schooner. Probably 50' -60' and pitch pine on oak frames.

    That's one of the best sdQ shots I've seen. Very well done.
    Steve
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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro Images

    Quote Originally Posted by furtle View Post
    Nice schooner! Well, I think it's a schooner. Probably 50' -60' and pitch pine on oak frames.

    That's one of the best sdQ shots I've seen. Very well done.
    Thank you Steve. Yes, it is a large schooner named "True Love" and she does excursions on Seneca Lake out of Watkins Glen.

    History of the True Love.
    Last edited by scho; 5th September 2016 at 15:07.
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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro Images

    An old phone booth outside a pub in Watkins Glen. sdQ + 18-35A. Some purple fringing on the tree branches that I left because removing with the dropper in LR produced some horrible magenta blotching on the faded blue shirt of the man on the street.

    You know how old you are when your grandson asks what the phone booth is for

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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro Images

    Quote Originally Posted by scho View Post
    Thank you Steve. Yes, it is a large schooner named "True Love" and she does excursions on Seneca Lake out of Watkins Glen.
    Ha! I looked it up. A 53'9" Alden built 1926. What a beautiful yacht by a great architect. One minor gripe I have with USA designed yachts of that era, and it is minor, but the bow sprits always seemed a bit (how can I say) on the short side, a bit stumpy if you like. I personally prefer a thundering great bow sprit!

    Sorry for the off topic bit but I used to have some involvement in classic yachts and we (in the UK) have to be grateful for our American friends for preserving and maintaining a great wooden boat industry, especially on your East Coast. As the the $/ rate fluctuates, these beautiful yachts move to and fro from across the Atlantic, between our countries.
    Steve

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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro Images

    Cayuga Lake Ithaca, NY. sdQ+18-35 Art with dust protector/hot mirror removed. Processed in SPP 6.4 and then converted to B&W using B&W adjustment layer in Photoshop. Custom cool toning with icc profile.



    This is the original full spectrum file before processing in Photoshop.

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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro Images

    Earlier commentary I've seen on the SD Quattro has expressed skepticism that an infrared capture is possible, by removing the thin internal dust cover/ir filter over the sensor, as one could do with the SD1 and earlier Sigma interchangeable lens cameras. But each of these commentaries has provided no further detail. Is the dust filter you refer to like the removable ones in the earlier cameras? It appears that your image includes the infrared range. Infrared capture on the earlier cameras required removing the thin sensor cover, so as to admit IR, and adding a visible-light-blocking filter on the outside of the lens. Does it appear this would work with the SD Quattro?

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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro Images

    Quote Originally Posted by BarbaraArmstrong View Post
    Earlier commentary I've seen on the SD Quattro has expressed skepticism that an infrared capture is possible, by removing the thin internal dust cover/ir filter over the sensor, as one could do with the SD1 and earlier Sigma interchangeable lens cameras. But each of these commentaries has provided no further detail. Is the dust filter you refer to like the removable ones in the earlier cameras? It appears that your image includes the infrared range. Infrared capture on the earlier cameras required removing the thin sensor cover, so as to admit IR, and adding a visible-light-blocking filter on the outside of the lens. Does it appear this would work with the SD Quattro?
    Yes, it will work. Just add an IR pass filter of your chosen wavelength to the lens after removing the dust protector which is a hot mirror filter that blocks IR. It would be nice if Sigma would offer a replacement dust protector made with an IR pass filter to allow IR shooting without the need to use filters on the lens. Below are a few IR sample shots using the sdQ with dust shield removed and 850nm filter on a 30mm lens. Camera was in monochrome mode which made it easy to preview results. All raws just quickly batched through x3f tools and then Photoshop ACR. The last image was also split toned during ACR processing. There is a bug in x3f tools 0.55 that leaves a matrix of black dots from the PDAF screen on the image.



    Last edited by scho; 21st September 2016 at 13:03. Reason: add images
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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro Images

    Quote Originally Posted by scho View Post
    Yes, it will work. Just add an IR pass filter of your chosen wavelength to the lens after removing the dust protector which is a hot mirror filter that blocks IR. It would be nice if Sigma would offer a replacement dust protector made with an IR pass filter to allow IR shooting without the need to use filters on the lens. Below are a few IR sample shots using the sdQ with dust shield removed and 850nm filter on a 30mm lens. Camera was in monochrome mode which made it easy to preview results. All raws just quickly batched through x3f tools and then Photoshop ACR. The last image was also split toned during ACR processing. There is a bug in x3f tools 0.55 that leaves a matrix of black dots from the PDAF screen on the image.



    If you want to shoot hand held, but still use ISO 100 then use a 590nm filter instead of the higher wavelength pass filters. Similar results in monochrome with much faster shutter speeds. A 590nm sample below.

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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro Images

    Scho/Carl, thanks for the reply! Those are some nice IR images. I do prefer the higher wavelength cutoff. I take it you have found it requires a longer exposure than, say, something at 650? I have very much enjoyed getting some infrared captures, and ensuing lovely prints, but haven't done enough work in IR to make that observation. I only have two visible light cutoff/IR pass filters, and I am sure both are at the higher wavelength. I would like to ask: how do you manage to focus doing IR with the Sigma? With only IR making its way to the sensor, there is very little to use to discriminate for focus. I've found myself using a focus-stacking technique with multiple shots to find the best one. Do you have a better solution? I did very much enjoy your results! Thanks for your feedback!

  45. #45
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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro Images

    Quote Originally Posted by BarbaraArmstrong View Post
    Scho/Carl, thanks for the reply! Those are some nice IR images. I do prefer the higher wavelength cutoff. I take it you have found it requires a longer exposure than, say, something at 650? I have very much enjoyed getting some infrared captures, and ensuing lovely prints, but haven't done enough work in IR to make that observation. I only have two visible light cutoff/IR pass filters, and I am sure both are at the higher wavelength. I would like to ask: how do you manage to focus doing IR with the Sigma? With only IR making its way to the sensor, there is very little to use to discriminate for focus. I've found myself using a focus-stacking technique with multiple shots to find the best one. Do you have a better solution? I did very much enjoy your results! Thanks for your feedback!
    The sdQ is a mirrorless camera so live view makes it very easy to focus (I just use auto focus with no problems) and frame. Also, I set the camera color mode to monochrome and image quality to raw so there is no distracting red color. You see exactly what the final monochrome image looks like on the LCD or EVF. The 850 nm filter is completely black to the naked eye but still delivers a crystal clear IR monochrome preview in the camera EVF/LCD. I use the camera on a tripod when shooting with this filter and camera set at ISO 100. In bright sun and f/8 exposure times are down around 1/50 sec. A 590 nm filter would expose at about 1/400 sec under similar conditions.
    Last edited by scho; 22nd September 2016 at 07:15.
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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro Images

    Another IR shot. This one at the local marina shot handheld using a 665nm filter on the lens. Exposure data: sdQ + Sigma 30mm f/1.4 Art lens + 665nm filter - dust shield/hot mirror ISO 100 f/8 1/250sec x3f tools processing



    x3f tools has a couple of bugs that I hope will be fixed in the next release, but otherwise very quick and decent processing compared to SPP. One of the bugs is the PDAF AF points matrix of black dots overlaying the image and the second is the stripping of all exif when exporting to a dng file.
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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro Images

    Two hand held shots from a walk at Buttermilk Falls. sdQ +18-35 - dust shield/hot mirror + 720nm filter on lens.

    Ferns and lichens (100 % crop from larger image)



    Bone dry Buttermilk Falls

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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro Images

    Hi everyone, I'm new here and wanted to post a sdQ image from a local park.

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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro Images

    Quote Originally Posted by TClair View Post
    Hi everyone, I'm new here and wanted to post a sdQ image from a local park.

    Welcome Terry! Good to see another sdQ owner posting images here. Nice shot with vibrant colors.
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    Re: Sigma sd Quattro Images

    Thanks scho, I appreciate the comment. I believe the sdQ deserves a little more respect than it gets!

    Last edited by TClair; 2nd October 2016 at 14:31.
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