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Leica S-E versus Sony A7R, or even A7RII

biglouis

Well-known member
I would welcome some advice from members of the forum.

Until a couple of years ago I was shooting a lot of MF film but I reluctantly decided I wouldn't invest any more money in it as the cost and more importantly the scarcity of scanners was a concern.

I never thought I would be able to go MF digital but I've noticed that Leica is running a promotion for the Leica S-E and Summarit 70/2.5 for GBP 7,999. And there is even a store in the UK with a demonstrator S2+70/2.5 for a little less.

In the meantime I have built a system around the A7 series.

My question is: has the shipped sailed and is there really no point in a 37.5mpx MF sensor versus albeit a smaller 36pmx or even 42mpx sensor in the latest A7RII.

I've always been a bit confused about the sensor densities - is a 35mm 36mpx sensor actually going to yield a different level of detail than a 37.5mpx MF sensor?

Apologies if this is an old topic but I'd welcome some clarity.

LouisB
 

docmoore

Subscriber and Workshop Member
I would welcome some advice from members of the forum.

Until a couple of years ago I was shooting a lot of MF film but I reluctantly decided I wouldn't invest any more money in it as the cost and more importantly the scarcity of scanners was a concern.

I never thought I would be able to go MF digital but I've noticed that Leica is running a promotion for the Leica S-E and Summarit 70/2.5 for GBP 7,999. And there is even a store in the UK with a demonstrator S2+70/2.5 for a little less.

In the meantime I have built a system around the A7 series.

My question is: has the shipped sailed and is there really no point in a 37.5mpx MF sensor versus albeit a smaller 36pmx or even 42mpx sensor in the latest A7RII.

I've always been a bit confused about the sensor densities - is a 35mm 36mpx sensor actually going to yield a different level of detail than a 37.5mpx MF sensor?

Apologies if this is an old topic but I'd welcome some clarity.

LouisB

LouisB

No contest ... if you want DR contrast and wonderful imaging the Leica will blow the Sony out of the water....

I have had both the original S2-P and the S006 debated on the S007 but did not want to drop another 40K to get
a working camera and lenses....

However my D810 and OTUS compromise does not approach the level of the S ....

And it will rival any Sony Play Camera....

Check them out ....

A demo is a must for this level but be forewarned .... once you play with one you will own it.

Bob
 

algrove

Well-known member
I say if you want to blow the S out of the water get a 645Z and a bundle of new designed lenses for way less than an S kit.
 

docmoore

Subscriber and Workshop Member
of new designed lenses
NEW DESIGNED LENSES ... right one of them may approach the S lens quality ... weather sealed perfect at widest aperture.

Again maybe not....

But such a bargain ....

MF at Holga prices ....

Sign me up.

No ... think I will pass ...

We tend to justify our purchases without any scientific or aesthetic reality to back up our subjective choices.

Might be better if we call it as it is ... a choice that works for us ... whether the reality substantiates our bias.

Bob
 

jerome_m

Member
Between the S-E and the A7RII you will get better lenses and a better viewfinder. You will lose stabilisation and some low light abilities. And 4K video, of course.
 

GrahamWelland

Subscriber & Workshop Member
One look through the viewfinder of the Leica S will change your view of 35mm digital cameras, especially ones with EVF's. :thumbup:
 
V

Vivek

Guest
I have had both the original S2-P and the S006 debated on the S007 but did not want to drop another 40K to get
a working camera and lenses....
I say if you want to blow the S out of the water get a 645Z and a bundle of new designed lenses for way less than an S kit.
There are many that offer a "working camera" for far less. :shocked:
 
Having used all of these cameras except for the A7RII and S007, I would say that I'd sooner get a 645Z than the S-E, assuming the latter's sensor performs about the same as the S006/645D's.

The D and S had a really nice look to them, but they didn't really escape from the problem that plagued my Canon 5D2, in that they just had too much noise if you either pushed the exposure or shot at higher ISOs. The noise was better behaved though, more like monochromatic grain. They also looked a heck of a lot better overall if you simply nailed exposure in-camera and didn't do nasty things in post.

The Z is a whole other box of chocolates though, I haven't had a good reason to shoot HDR since getting it. If the S007 has similar dynamic range and you can afford a set of S lenses, then I would place it on par with the Z, just because you have a wider selection of truly excellent glass. The Z only has the 28-45mm, 90mm and 120mm as the "killer" lineup, whereas just about any of the S lenses will give you an optimal result. On the other hand, you do pay a lot more for a camera body that has fewer essential features, like a tilt-screen.

So, in my opinion, if you shoot in the studio or otherwise are able to reliably nail exposure in camera and don't want to rely on highlight/shadow recovery, the CCD-based cameras are perfectly fine.
If you shoot in unpredictable situations and want to leave room for error, or just want to optimize your ability to shoot landscapes and architecture without leaning on post-production crutches, then any of the CMOS cameras are far superior. At f/11 any of the MF lenses will look great.

Having used only the A7r first version, my beef with it actually had nothing to do with imaging performance but with handling and the viewfinder, which is sub-par to any of these other cameras. I may give the mkII version a spin, a friend of mine bought one along with the FE35/1.4, and I'll be visiting him in the near future.
 

Dan Santoso

New member
Sony has 90mm macro that will kill any leica lens :)

Dxo rated it as no 1 i think.

not sure compare to the new 120 macro blue ring

In the end it is about technology. Sony was the first to prove that CMOS can be as good as CCD with the alpha and next lines. IQ 250 uses sony sensor. So Sony is the best sensor maker now. Im sure the new back will use CMOS in the future.
 

biglouis

Well-known member
Thanks for all the responses.

As per the comment above I need to go down to a dealer and at least hold and test one in the flesh.

I do agree with one point above which is the new Sony 90/2.8 is a drop-dead outstanding lens.

My head says stay with the Sony platform as I already have a significant investment. My heart says you'll always wonder if you don't try MF digital.

Noted about the 645Z. I should also check that out.

Thanks again for all the advice/responses.

LouisB
 

GrahamWelland

Subscriber & Workshop Member
graham...you looking at an S?
I've used the S before and liked it a lot. I'm too invested in Phase One alas to make that change. My Phase Backs are reusable on the technical cameras and the DF+ (maybe XF soon). If I could, I'd definitely have an S instead of my Phase One DSLRs. The Leica S lenses I used were wonderful.

As a DSLR platform the Leica just exudes quality and I completely understand why those who shoot them just love the platform.
 

jerome_m

Member
I do agree with one point above which is the new Sony 90/2.8 is a drop-dead outstanding lens.
In my experience with the H platform, drop-dead outstanding lenses are the norm, while in 24x36 lens they are the exception. I don't expect the lenses Leica designed for the S platform to be any worse than the Hasselblad lenses and if needs be you there is an adapter for them on the S platform.
 
Sony has 90mm macro that will kill any leica lens :)

Dxo rated it as no 1 i think.
For now... DxO is getting ready for a huge info dump on the 645Z and various Pentax lenses, they've already added the Z to OpticsPro 10, so stay tuned, there just might be another 90mm 2.8 that wants that title.

what's the diff among the various S bodies?
S2/S2P - Original model, ISO range of 160~1250 and missing many features the new cameras have, just holding one felt like a step back from the S 006. S2P had a tougher LCD plate and premium warranty.

S 006 - The second model, it has a much larger buffer, expanded ISO of 100~1600, joystick, GPS, faster AF, and a whole bunch of other features that make it just plain better than the S2.

S-E - Rebranded S 006 with a different-colored top plate and basic warranty... I wonder if these are refurb 006's? Functionally, it is 100% identical.

S 007 - The first CMOS "S" camera, physical features from the 006 are largely identical minus minor cosmetic and functional changes, such as a different more robust LCD, unmarked top dial, no more GPS "hump", and an updated UI. Under the hood you of course gain Live View and video, wi-fi connectivity, and all the benefits CMOS brings with it; such as clean high-ISO, deep shadow recovery, and so on.

Besides that, they all have the same 30x45mm sensor size and 37.5MP resolution.
 
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