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The New Buy/Sell section

mmbma

Active member
I wish we could have the old B&S back. I used to log in 3 times a day to see new stuff up for sale. The new one is just not working out. Not many new items up for sale, can't reply with questions, hard to post, etc. I am hesitant to post my own item because 1) it's hard to post, and 2) cannot bump and 3) don't want to pay the fee because I'm not sure it's getting a large audience/reception.

Now I rarely check the B&S section and that had lead to me spending less time on the site. Further, I had to open up an account on FM to sell my stuff because if I'm paying money, I'd rather sell it there for the huge buyer pool.

My frank opinions
 

Bob

Administrator
Staff member
+1 too.

I think that part of the issue is that the B&S section is walled off and so it doesn't naturally form part of the rest of the forum and hence isn't visited as much. I liked being able to see within the forum format what was up for sale very easily. I very rarely bother now and actually prefer the LuLa site where there seems to be more traffic and activity.
I am curious as to the basis of the "walled off" comment.
Please explain.
-bob
 

Arjuna

Active member
My guess on "Walled Off": Most of my time on GetDPI, I hit the 'New Posts' button, and then look at the (new) threads that I am interested in - I don't browse by forum very often. Previously, all the new Buy-and-Sell posts turned up, and now they don't, so in that sense, they are now 'walled off'.

Personally, I approve of the changes. My guess is that the main goal of this website is to provide a friendly and polite place to exchange information and experience about photography, and it is generally very successful. Originally there was no Buy/Sell forum, but once it was created, a large proportion of the posts were in that forum, and there arrived a considerable number of members who only participated in that forum. This seemed, to me, to dilute the original purpose of the site. I am not opposed to the site having a Buy/Sell forum: I understand the logic of the connection to the very particular audience of the members here, I have had some good experiences with it myself, and it is probably the first place I go to when I want to buy or sell camera equipment. The new arrangement, which somewhat separates ('walls off') the information exchange and discussion functions of the site from the commercial functions, works for me.

On the lighter side, a New Year's resolution that I might have made would have been: 'Don't read any of the FS ads (unless I am actually looking for something) - reading them only encourages GAS, and GAS certainly doesn't need any encouraging.' Fortunately, Bob et al have accomplished my resolution for me!
 

GrahamWelland

Subscriber & Workshop Member
As per the previous comment, my description of 'walled off' referred to the separation of the section from the rest of the forum as explained. You have to click on the browse ads banner and then drop into a different section - kind of taking the back door to a hidden room at the back of the forum.

Maybe it's just me that feels this way.
 
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jlm

Workshop Member
Used to be you could be surprised seeing a new gizmo in the b/s when you weren't even shopping. Now you have to be deliberately looking to buy
 

GrahamWelland

Subscriber & Workshop Member
Used to be you could be surprised seeing a new gizmo in the b/s when you weren't even shopping. Now you have to be deliberately looking to buy
Precisely. Ask Guy how I've 'enabled' him sometimes - you too Bob! :)
 

stephengilbert

Active member
"Used to be you could be surprised seeing a new gizmo in the b/s when you weren't even shopping. Now you have to be deliberately looking to buy."

Is that a defect, or a feature?
 

GrahamWelland

Subscriber & Workshop Member
"Used to be you could be surprised seeing a new gizmo in the b/s when you weren't even shopping. Now you have to be deliberately looking to buy."



Is that a defect, or a feature?

Steve, I totally agree that getdpi as primarily a buy/sell forum is unwelcome. I just think that we've lost something with the separation. I'm 110% in favour of the fee based buy/sell but prefer to see it as a normal part of the fora vs decoupled.
 

ecsh

New member
I would normally visit it everytime i came to the site, and now do not even bother to go to it.
On the other hand, DPI has the best Sony forum around, without all the drama that spells DPR,LOL
 

Bob

Administrator
Staff member
Steve, I totally agree that getdpi as primarily a buy/sell forum is unwelcome. I just think that we've lost something with the separation. I'm 110% in favour of the fee based buy/sell but prefer to see it as a normal part of the fora vs decoupled.
Would a display of recent ads in the "New Posts" display improve things?
Navigation to the ads has not changed other than an additional link has been provided at the top menu.
thanks
-bob
 
Howdy there good folks of GetDPI. I posted and paid for an ad a day or to ago (WTB: X100s or X100 Black). I cannot find any sign of it today. Any idea what might have happened? If I was in violation of some rule, I'd love to know about it. Thanks.
 

wjlapier

Member
I'm wondering if adds have dropped off since there is no interaction between possible buyers and sellers. I don't go there much anymore.
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
Howdy there good folks of GetDPI. I posted and paid for an ad a day or to ago (WTB: X100s or X100 Black). I cannot find any sign of it today. Any idea what might have happened? If I was in violation of some rule, I'd love to know about it. Thanks.
Bob has PM'd you directly to resolve your issue. It sounds like you may have not pushed the final publish ad button.
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
I'm wondering if adds have dropped off since there is no interaction between possible buyers and sellers. I don't go there much anymore.
We anticipated ads would drop off, and actually assumed they might drop off rather significantly because it was no longer free. And yes it means there will be less stuff for you to look at. But it also means less problems we have to deal with over people engaging in excessive bumping, price policing or discount viagra sales. Moreover, since we did not receive any compensation from the old B&S and we are getting a modicum now, it is a huge win for us and our moderation team; effort expended to moderate has dropped to nill and at least some money is now flowing in that helps to keep this site online.

Folks are certainly free to avoid either side of the new B&S format, it's totally up to them. Either way, it doesn't alter the (excellent) content of the forum threads :)
 

GDI

Member
We anticipated ads would drop off, and actually assumed they might drop off rather significantly because it was no longer free. And yes it means there will be less stuff for you to look at. But it also means less problems we have to deal with over people engaging in excessive bumping, price policing or discount viagra sales. Moreover, since we did not receive any compensation from the old B&S and we are getting a modicum now, it is a huge win for us and our moderation team; effort expended to moderate has dropped to nill and at least some money is now flowing in that helps to keep this site online.

Folks are certainly free to avoid either side of the new B&S format, it's totally up to them. Either way, it doesn't alter the (excellent) content of the forum threads :)
Jack, I don't think the ads have dropped off so drastically just because of the fees. Yes, that has an impact but the feedback you are receiving here regarding the difficulty of using the section, the lack of an integrated "user experience", and the elimination of the social aspect of B&S is actually valuable advice in disguise and not just complaints from those wanting a free ride.

I think most understand that the difficulties you mention are real - spam ads, constant bumping, price policing, etc. - but there should be ways to address each of these problems without holding a pillow over the B&S forum's face. I think the best way to maximize the income potential of the site is to reverse your thinking about the mix of a good and positive user/customer experience, versus ease of moderation and making some money.

If you set a goal of trying to put the (newly minted) customers first and adding the requirement that you start making money from the ads while keeping things tolerable for the moderators (rather than the opposite approach now being pursued), you will likely find you can make much more money from the ads. It looks like there are just a few new ads being posted everyday, unless I am missing something.

I still think that the biggest problem is not having any comment ability, but you could also likely make much more money by charging a subscription fee to sellers - or even buyers, to weed out the increasing number of scammers who are contacting members. Regarding bumping and price policing - I am not very familiar with the available addins for VBulletin, but there may be some very customizable options for reasonable prices. At the least you may be able to get help from the member community by using a "Report" button to make the task of moderation a lot easier.

Think about how a $10-20 per quarter fee would stack up against the current "modicum" of income you are now seeing. Or even keeping the current fee structure under a more usable and social format. As others have mentioned - an active, vibrant B&S will drive traffic to the site, and result in more members and more income. I for one would not hesitate to subscribe, both to support the site in general, and to use the buy and sell.

Just something to think about :)
 

Bob

Administrator
Staff member
Jack, I don't think the ads have dropped off so drastically just because of the fees. Yes, that has an impact but the feedback you are receiving here regarding the difficulty of using the section, the lack of an integrated "user experience", and the elimination of the social aspect of B&S is actually valuable advice in disguise and not just complaints from those wanting a free ride.

I think most understand that the difficulties you mention are real - spam ads, constant bumping, price policing, etc. - but there should be ways to address each of these problems without holding a pillow over the B&S forum's face. I think the best way to maximize the income potential of the site is to reverse your thinking about the mix of a good and positive user/customer experience, versus ease of moderation and making some money.

If you set a goal of trying to put the (newly minted) customers first and adding the requirement that you start making money from the ads while keeping things tolerable for the moderators (rather than the opposite approach now being pursued), you will likely find you can make much more money from the ads. It looks like there are just a few new ads being posted everyday, unless I am missing something.

I still think that the biggest problem is not having any comment ability, but you could also likely make much more money by charging a subscription fee to sellers - or even buyers, to weed out the increasing number of scammers who are contacting members. Regarding bumping and price policing - I am not very familiar with the available addins for VBulletin, but there may be some very customizable options for reasonable prices. At the least you may be able to get help from the member community by using a "Report" button to make the task of moderation a lot easier.

Think about how a $10-20 per quarter fee would stack up against the current "modicum" of income you are now seeing. Or even keeping the current fee structure under a more usable and social format. As others have mentioned - an active, vibrant B&S will drive traffic to the site, and result in more members and more income. I for one would not hesitate to subscribe, both to support the site in general, and to use the buy and sell.

Just something to think about :)
Something more to think about:
Ad views are about the same as they were about a year ago.
About half of the views are from non-members, about the same as a year ago.
The rate of sales in the first two weeks is about the same as it was a year ago for those members marking their ads as "sold".
According to google analytics, the bounce rate is exactly the same as it was a year ago.
What has changed is that the number of disciplinary actions compared to a year ago has dropped off to about zero.
The number of folks commenting on an ad that it "is a really good deal" or that "so-and-so is a very good seller" who happen to me made by different user ids with the same ip address has gone to zero. Claims of fraud have also gone down.
There is plenty of opportunity to interact with the seller by responding to an ad, asking questions, clarifications and so forth is the same as it always was, only not publicly, sort of if the user had made the comment by PM instead of post.
I have reviewed the "social aspects" to user comments and frankly think they are not worth much.
We have the ability to turn on user comments to ads, but from past experience they would all be moderated if we were to do so.
We offer a discounted package of "credits" that can be purchased which do not expire and permit a user to buy ads in bulk. A quarterly fee would be time-limited and I bet some of the fees would be wasted, at least as far as the user is concerned. In the last month, one user has made a bulk purchase, which is great news for us.
The classifieds section provides a way for users to flag an ad which is meant to bring it to the attention of the moderators.
I have thought about what a "vibrant" ad community would mean for us. Frankly it may detract from the real goals of the forum which is to share images and talk about photography.
The one thing that IS missed is a response from an old forgotten ad for an item that just never sold. I do miss that.
Anyway I have made my decisions concerning the ad section for the time being.
So far we consider it a considerable success.
thanks
-bob
 

GDI

Member
Something more to think about:
Ad views are about the same as they were about a year ago.
About half of the views are from non-members, about the same as a year ago.
The rate of sales in the first two weeks is about the same as it was a year ago for those members marking their ads as "sold".
According to google analytics, the bounce rate is exactly the same as it was a year ago.
What has changed is that the number of disciplinary actions compared to a year ago has dropped off to about zero.
The number of folks commenting on an ad that it "is a really good deal" or that "so-and-so is a very good seller" who happen to me made by different user ids with the same ip address has gone to zero. Claims of fraud have also gone down.
There is plenty of opportunity to interact with the seller by responding to an ad, asking questions, clarifications and so forth is the same as it always was, only not publicly, sort of if the user had made the comment by PM instead of post.
I have reviewed the "social aspects" to user comments and frankly think they are not worth much.
We have the ability to turn on user comments to ads, but from past experience they would all be moderated if we were to do so.
We offer a discounted package of "credits" that can be purchased which do not expire and permit a user to buy ads in bulk. A quarterly fee would be time-limited and I bet some of the fees would be wasted, at least as far as the user is concerned. In the last month, one user has made a bulk purchase, which is great news for us.
The classifieds section provides a way for users to flag an ad which is meant to bring it to the attention of the moderators.
I have thought about what a "vibrant" ad community would mean for us. Frankly it may detract from the real goals of the forum which is to share images and talk about photography.
The one thing that IS missed is a response from an old forgotten ad for an item that just never sold. I do miss that.
Anyway I have made my decisions concerning the ad section for the time being.
So far we consider it a considerable success.
thanks
-bob
I guess you have access to the stats that I don't - so my perception of the activity before the change is just that, a perception. I was probably mistaking activity in the form of replies with new ad activity.

I think a lot of what you see as low value and what I and at least some others see as high value is a result of perspective. I come at it from the perspective of what I find as an engaging use of my limited safe time, I think you come with the perspective of reducing admin hassles for over burdened moderators. Fair enough, I hope it does work out well.

Thanks for offering your views and intent.
 
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